Biblical Mary

[Illuminator]

I have no command in scripture to worship any other than God the Father.

Neither do Catholics.

And I come to him in Jesus name.

So do Catholics.

Regarding the worship of Mary

Straw man fallacy.

I see no access to the Heavenly Father through her.

Typical anti-Catholic backward thinking. The Heavenly Father sent His Son through Mary. There is no way around that fact. Where do you think Jesus got His humanity from???

 

[rockytopva]

Neither do Catholics. So do Catholics. Straw man fallacy. Typical anti-Catholic backward thinking. The Heavenly Father sent His Son through Mary. There is no way around that fact. Where do you think Jesus got His humanity from???

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. - Matthew 12

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have no command in scripture to worship any other than God the Father. And I come to him in Jesus name. Regarding the worship of Mary I see no access to the Heavenly Father through her.

Thanks for adding yet another idiotic, anti-Catholic remark to the fray.

Worship of anybody or anything other than God is strictly forbidden within the Catholic Church and always HAS been.
As a matter of fact - we Catholics are the ones who taught YOU that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. - Matthew 12

And there you have it.
You have Jesus's promise that YOU will also be blessed - just like His Mother is for doing the will of the Father.

You've taken your first step to the fullness of the Gospel.

 

[rockytopva]

Thanks for adding yet another idiotic, anti-Catholic remark to the fray.

Worship of anybody or anything other than God is strictly forbidden within the Catholic Church and always HAS been.
As a matter of fact - we Catholics are the ones who taught YOU that.

Well, then, straighten me out! I do believe the Catholic Church as a Christian church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, then, straighten me out! I do believe the Catholic Church as a Christian church.

Then WHY would you make the claim that we "worship" Mary?
Please explain . . .

 

[rockytopva]

And… I would imagine the Mother Mary as having an honorable place in heaven. What that is I have no idea. And I have also wondered if she has not communicated with those on earth since her departure.

 

[Taken]

In Jewish culture - "firstborn" does NOT imply more children afterward.

Over 50 times in Scripture firstborn reveals the name OF the Firstborn and thereafter follows the subsequent children's names.
^ That establishes the Scriptural meaning of Firstborn, being following by additional children....
After all, God said to mankind....Multiply!
And Catholics have been well renown for multiplying .... But yet excuse Mary from Gods command. WEEEEIRD!

 

[Taken]

~ rockytopva ~

Thanks for adding yet another idiotic, anti-Catholic remark to the fray.

Worship of anybody or anything other than God is strictly forbidden within the Catholic Church and always HAS been.
As a matter of fact - we Catholics are the ones who taught YOU that.

Highly esteeming is an unseen "inward" thought of worship.
(Certainly "inward" thoughts of worshipping the Lord God was taught, BY JEWS, Long before Any Gentiles calling themselves Catholics entered the picture.)

Bowing down before statutes is a visible "outward" revealing of WHAT is being worshiped.
(Without question Gentiles calling themselves Catholics have taught making and "bowing before Statues", called idolatry ...and has been rejected by millions of Gentiles IN CHRIST, refusing to participate in Catholic idolatry. )


Lev 26:
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God

Luke 4:
[8] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Pss 95:
[6] O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.

*** BOL - your unseen "inward" claim contradicts your "outward" visable acts.
*** And YES many Gentiles, IN CHRIST ; (without shame), reject Catholic taught and practices of "outwardly" bowing down Before "idol statues".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

And… I would imagine the Mother Mary as having an honorable place in heaven. What that is I have no idea. And I have also wondered if she has not communicated with those on earth since her departure.

St. Augustine famously wrote:
"The New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is revealed in the New”.

This statement means that unless one understands the Old Testament, one cannot understand the New Testament.

In the Davidic Kingdom in the OT, the wife of the King was not the Queen – but rather, his mother was elevated to that station. The title “Great Lady” or “Queen Mother” was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel but only to those in the line of David.

Jesus Christ is the heir of David. He is the fulfillment of the Covenant promises made to David in 2 Samuel 7:16; 23:5, and repeated to Mary in Luke 1:26-36. Mary’s son rules from the Kingdom of the heavenly Jerusalem (Rev. 21). It is fitting fulfillment that His mother should enjoy the same role that other Davidic Queen mothers enjoyed.

In Rev. 12:1, we see her in this role.
Rev 12:1
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

As for apparitions of Mary - I believe in many of them (Lourdes, Fatima) but NOT all of them.
Too many people out there seeking attention claim seeing Mary in a tortilla or Jesus in a grease spot on their driveway . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Over 50 times in Scripture firstborn reveals the name OF the Firstborn and thereafter follows the subsequent children's names.
^ That establishes the Scriptural meaning of Firstborn, being following by additional children....
After all, God said to mankind....Multiply!
And Catholics have been well renown for multiplying .... But yet excuse Mary from Gods command. WEEEEIRD!

Soooooo, going by YOUR logic - any Jewish woman who only had ONE child is cursed??
What about Sarah?
What about Hannah?

That's pretty stupid - even for YOU . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

~ rockytopva ~

Highly esteeming is an unseen "inward" thought of worship.
(Certainly "inward" thoughts of worshipping the Lord God was taught, BY JEWS, Long before Any Gentiles calling themselves Catholics entered the picture.)

Bowing down before statutes is a visible "outward" revealing of WHAT is being worshiped.
(Without question Gentiles calling themselves Catholics have taught making and "bowing before Statues", called idolatry ...and has been rejected by millions of Gentiles IN CHRIST, refusing to participate in Catholic idolatry. )

Lev 26:
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God

Luke 4:
[8] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Pss 95:
[6] O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.

*** BOL - your unseen "inward" claim contradicts your "outward" visable acts.
*** And YES many Gentiles, IN CHRIST ; (without shame), reject Catholic taught and practices of "outwardly" bowing down Before "idol statues".

Glory to God,
Taken

Typical of your ignorant anti-Catholic manure.
time for another Bible and language lesson . . .

So, to "highly esteem" someone is "worship" in your eyes??
I hope you never have a child who wins an award at school or a trophy on the ballfield.
I hope you never honor your mother on her birthday - let alone your wife.
I hope that every man who kneels before his girlfriend to propose marriage knows that he is guilty of "idol worship".

As usual - your accusations Scripturally bankrupt . . .
Gen 33:3
He (Jacob) himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

1 Kings 2:19
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down on his right.

Are Jacob and Solomon "roasting" in Hell for being "idolators"??
OR, unlike YOU - did they understand that "esteem" and "worship" were 2 different things?

Think about it, Einstein . . .

 

[Taken]

~ Ronald Nolette
~ rockytopva
~ amigo de christo

Scripture clearly establishes...
* A man "knowing" his wife, is a man engaging in intercourse with his wife.
* A child coming forth from a woman's womb, called "firstborn" clearly establishes other children thereafter come forth from the same woman's womb.
* Every person with a smidgen of "Common sense" knows "until...'till"... means something follows AFTER what is initially revealed.
* Scripturally...IS THAT Joseph, would NOT have sexual intercourse with his Wife Mary, "TILL After she had delivered her Firstborn forth out of her womb.
* Scripturally....AFTER Mary's firstborn had come forth from her Womb....
Joseph her husband Was then Allowed to have intercourse with his Wife Mary.
* After Mary delievered her FIRSTBORN, she was then ALLOWED to have intercourse with her husband Joseph and bring forth additional children.
* Mary's condition Before and During her being Conceived (Pregnant), was her having a VIRGIN WOMB...
* AFTER the birth of Mary's Firstborn, the condition of Mary's Womb remaining VIRGIN, was no longer required or effected.

THE THING about "making up" an initial LIE, is more Lies upon Lies are told to support the initial Lie.

Matt 1:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Soooooo, going by YOUR logic - any Jewish woman who only had ONE child is cursed??

I said no such thing.

That's pretty stupid - even for YOU . . .

It is very DEVIOUS when you decide what is an others opinions, logic or beliefs.

Try to gain some WISDOM...people are quite capable of speaking for themselves.

 

[Taken]

Typical of your ignorant anti-Catholic manure.
time for another Bible and language lesson . . .

So, to "highly esteem" someone is "worship" in your eyes??
I hope you never have a child who wins an award at school or a trophy on the ballfield.
I hope you never honor your mother on her birthday - let alone your wife.
I hope that every man who kneels before his girlfriend to propose marriage knows that he is guilty of "idol worship".

As usual - your accusations Scripturally bankrupt . . .
Gen 33:3
He (Jacob) himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

1 Kings 2:19
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down on his right.

Are Jacob and Solomon "roasting" in Hell for being "idolators"??
OR, unlike YOU - did they understand that "esteem" and "worship" were 2 different things?

Think about it, Einstein . . .

Nothing to consider in your blather.
Neither Joseph or Solomon were bowing down to Idols.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, supported by OT typology, which you reject. Rank antinomianism.

You should learn what terms mean before you throw them out and look foolish. Maybe to Catholics Mary is the ark oif the covenant, but that don't make it so in gods eyes. You will have to come up with more than you just saying so or Romanism just saying so!

"Heos" (Gk. until) always refers to the past. My Greek scholars can beat up your Greek scholars

Matt. 28:29 – I am with you “until the end of the world.” This does not mean Jesus is not with us after the end of the world, as any 1st grader will tell you.

so very wrong about the past
until
[ˌənˈtil]
PREPOSITION

1. up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
   "the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents" ·
   till · up to · up till · up until · as late as · up to the time of/that ·
   till · up till · up until · up to the time of/that · until such time as

CONJUNCTION

1. up to the point in time or the event mentioned:
   "you don't know what you can achieve until you try"
   synonyms:
   till · up till · up until · up to the time of/that · until such time as

it is simply denoting when one event gives way to another my first grader is smarter than your first grader!

Luke 2:37 – Anna was a widow “up to the point that” she was eighty-four years old. She was not a widow after eighty-four years old, as any 1st grader will tell you.

Don't know what wierd translation you are using- but "up to" or until is not ion the greek so they added those on without proper linguistic warrant.

Luke 20:43 – Jesus says, “take your seat at my hand until I have made your enemies your footstool.” Jesus is not going to require the apostles to sit at His left hand after their enemies are their footstool, as any 1st grader will tell you.

1 Tim. 4:13 – “up to the point that I come,” attend to teaching and preaching. It does not mean do nothing “until after” I come, as any 1st grader will tell you.

Gen. 8:7 – the raven flew back and forth “up to the point that” [until] the waters dried from the earth. The raven did not start flying after the waters dried, as any 1st grader will tell you.

Gen. 28:15 – the Lord won’t leave Jacob “up to the point that” he does His promise. This does not mean the Lord will leave Jacob afterward, as any 1st grader will tell you.

Deut. 34:6 – but “up to the point of today” no one knows Moses’ burial place. This does not mean that “they did not know place until today.”

2 Sam. 6:23 – Saul’s daughter Micah was childless “up to the point” [until] her death. She was not with child after her death, as any 1st grader will tell you.

Write back to me when you learn proper English grammar. all your defenses are false because until has no specific time frame. The time is given by the sentence itself.

Example: 1. We are not buying a new car until December of 2021 (future)
2. We did not go outside until it stopped raining ( present or past)
3. We did not sayi anything until those 7 days had already passed ( past)

You need better first graders teachin gyou.

 

[Illuminator]

~ Ronald Nolette
~ rockytopva
~ amigo de christo

Scripture clearly establishes...
* A man "knowing" his wife, is a man engaging in intercourse with his wife.
* A child coming forth from a woman's womb, called "firstborn" clearly establishes other children thereafter come forth from the same woman's womb.
* Every person with a smidgen of "Common sense" knows "until...'till"... means something follows AFTER what is initially revealed.
* Scripturally...IS THAT Joseph, would NOT have sexual intercourse with his Wife Mary, "TILL After she had delivered her Firstborn forth out of her womb.
* Scripturally....AFTER Mary's firstborn had come forth from her Womb....
Joseph her husband Was then Allowed to have intercourse with his Wife Mary.
* After Mary delievered her FIRSTBORN, she was then ALLOWED to have intercourse with her husband Joseph and bring forth additional children.
* Mary's condition Before and During her being Conceived (Pregnant), was her having a VIRGIN WOMB...
* AFTER the birth of Mary's Firstborn, the condition of Mary's Womb remaining VIRGIN, was no longer required or effected.

THE THING about "making up" an initial LIE, is more Lies upon Lies are told to support the initial Lie.

Matt 1:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son...

Glory to God,
Taken

I see you are stubbornly defending 18th century inventions and covering up what the reformers taught. tsk tsk.

 

[Illuminator]

You should learn what terms mean before you throw them out and look foolish. Maybe to Catholics Mary is the ark oif the covenant, but that don't make it so in gods eyes. You will have to come up with more than you just saying so or Romanism just saying so!
so very wrong about the past
until
[ˌənˈtil]
PREPOSITION

1. up to (the point in time or the event mentioned):
   "the kidnappers have given us until October 11th to deliver the documents" ·
   till · up to · up till · up until · as late as · up to the time of/that ·
   till · up till · up until · up to the time of/that · until such time as

All refer to the past.

CONJUNCTION

1. up to the point in time or the event mentioned:
   "you don't know what you can achieve until you try"
   synonyms:
   till · up till · up until · up to the time of/that · until such time as

1. All refer to the past.

   Don't know what wierd translation you are using- but "up to" or until is not ion the greek so they added those on without proper linguistic warrant.

   Then find the Greek "heos" anywhere in the Bible that refers to the future with proper linguistic warrant. Chapter and verse, please.

   Write back to me when you learn proper English grammar. all your defenses are false because until has no specific time frame. The time is given by the sentence itself.

Example: 1. We are not buying a new car until December of 2021 (future)
2. We did not go outside until it stopped raining ( present or past)
3. We did not sayi anything until those 7 days had already passed ( past)

You need better first graders teachin gyou.

"We are not buying a new car until" refers to the past.
"We did not go outside until" refers to the past.
"We did not sayi anything until" refers to the past.

You refute yourself. Write back to me when you learn proper English grammar. Better still, find the usage of the Greek "heos" (until) that refers to the future. Use any translation you like.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"We are not buying a new car until" refers to the past.
"We did not go outside until" refers to the past.
"We did not sayi anything until" refers to the past.

You refute yourself. Write back to me when you learn proper English grammar.

Well you are in need of learning

First you cut my sentences to try to prove you rpoint- deception.
2nd the 2nd statement as I said could refer to the past or present.
third was definitely past. You can deny it all you want but your twisitn g teh trutrh doesn't make your false any truer.

And learn what antinominanism means as well. For denyi9ng Mary aand her virginity and chastity is not antinomianism.

Then find the Greek "heos" that refers to the future. Chapter and verse, please.

Really? If you wish nme to teach you grammar, it will cost you. I am tired of teaching Catholkics things I learned in Catholic grammar school!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your poor grammar and bad spelling aside - PROVE your claim above in RED - from Scripture.
An honest anti-Catholic would NEVER make this idiotic claim. They would simply say that Scripture ALLUDES to them being Mary's sons.

Please show me CHAPTER and VERSE that states explicitly that they are the sons of Mary, Mother of Jesus.
If you can't do that - then admit that you LIED.

As for Adelphos, cousins and sygenes - I have NEVER stated that James and Joses were "cousins" of Jesus.
I simply stated that they are the sons of Mary's kinswoman (adelphe), who is ALSO named "Mary" and who is the wife of Clopas/Alphaeus.

I guess the idea of you responding without LYING is hopeless . . .

Well until you stop calling me anti catholic and apologize for lying on this thread I will have no more to do with your dishonesty. I have told you repeatedly I am not against Catholics but against Catholic doctrine or romanism. You have been told repeatedly, now you are just violating the commandment against bearing false witness.

Ap[ologize or we are finished. I don't dialogue with liars!