Biblical Mary

[Taken]

No - we're NOT made of dust. Only Adam was.
We're made from a sperm and an egg.

We are only FIGURATIVELY made from dust because we are his descendants.
Try to grasp the meaning of Scripture - IF you can . . .

LOL...scripture is clear...
Who, What, When, Why, Where, How
is created and is made.
Figuratively is Carnal understanding.

Man HAS a beginning.
Man WAS Created out of the Earth.
Gen 2: (a)
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Man WAS Created WITH seeds.
Mans SEEDS reproduces it same KIND of thing, called Man-KIND.
(Gen 1)
...after his kind...after his kind...after his kind

TO EVERY KIND OF SEED...GOD GIVES THAT SEED ITS OWN INDIVIDUAL BODY.

1 Cor 15:
[38] But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


Mans BODY WAS/IS Formed by God.
Isa: 43; (a)
[1] But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee...

Mans SOUL (BELONGS to GOD),
Ezek 18:
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that belongs TO GOD, IS given into the man, that the Formed man, WILL BE MADE come ALIVE/LIVING.

Gen 2: 7 (b)
God...and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME KIND OF FLESH....
ALL BODY'S ARE NOT THE SAME KIND of BODY'S.

1 Cor 15;
[39] (a) All flesh is not the same flesh:
[40] (a) celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial...

Humans are of the same flesh.
Humans are terrestrial body's.

The Lord Gods Flesh is not Human flesh.
The Lord Gods Body is not terrestrial.

 

[Illuminator]

1. These images were in the holiest place of the sanctuary where only the high priest entered in once a year.

2. They weren’t to be worshipped and bowed down to.

3. The people were forbidden to make them for themselves.

"Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place." (Deuteronomy 27:15)

The Reformation Wall stretches for 100 m, depicting numerous Protestant figures from across Europe. At the centre of the Wall are statues to William Farel, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, and John Knox.

Either the Reformation Wall is the epitome of Protestant hypocrisy, or Deuteronomy 27:15 is solely about the worship of false gods, and has nothing to do with statues of Jesus and Mary.

“Catholics worship statues!” People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: “You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Ex. 20:4–5).

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, “God has forbidden the use of images in worship” (281). Yet if people were to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed “by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them” (374).

What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well they were biased so based on y0ou rrantings to me, that skews how "unbiased" htey could be in writing abou those terrible errors, just like the biased writers I cited according to you . were biased against teh errors of Romanism. Every sect of Christinaity has errors in it. Some sects arrors are more glaring than others.

The Councils tackled heresies that are clearly against the teachings of Scripture.

If YOU are attempting to defend the errors of Arianism, Nestorianism, Sabellianism, Gnosticism, etc., - then it's NO WONDER why you're so confused

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well as I am pointing at teh Roman Catholic church eeyore, and not other non -Roman Catholic rites, yours is a fasle accusation.

romanism is a derogatory term for Roman Catholicism. If you want to know the differences between teh other catholic sects and Romanism, I will tell you the biggest one.

ONE more time, Einstein.

There is the Catholic Church.
WITHIN that ONE Church - there are some 20 Liturgical Rites that are ALL in communion with each other.

There is no "Roman Catholic Church" - just The Catholic Church.
Did that sink in this time?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope.

Then what is your point??
Why do YOU think Jesus refers to His mother as "Woman" in John's Gospel?

 

[TheslightestID]

You ducked my question just as you ducked the previous one.

The people who discerned and agreed which books to canonise were 'just people in a Church'.
How do you know these 'people in a church' picked the right books?
Then
If you dismiss them as 'just people in a Church' then what basis do you have for your beliefs?

Please give a straight answer and not dodge them.

Ok, how do you know they they didn't, but who cares? The basiss for my belief is that they are just people in a church, no one special, the very answer I already gave, and the only answer you need....get it?. See, in order to hear my answers, you must listen to them. If you choose not to accept them, then that is up to you, but no amount of your claiming I dodged your questions are going to change things.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The Reformation Wall stretches for 100 m, depicting numerous Protestant figures from across Europe. At the centre of the Wall are statues to William Farel, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, and John Knox.

These are wrong too!

“Catholics worship statues!” People still make this ridiculous claim.

The formation of statues/images is forbidden by scripture. Wether for worship or for garnishments.

And the argument that God allows for statues in religious settings is flawed. The temple/sanctuary are no more!

We worship God in Spirit and in truth now. Not with instruments and ceremonies.

"And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more." (Jeremiah 3:16)

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)

 

[TheslightestID]

How as I minismising anyone?

Already told you.

I didn't say Everyopne in all churches are sinners,
I didn't say all people in all churches are paedophiles.
You should stop these false accusations.

If you choose to go in in to denia/avoid the facts, and ease the conversation into problems with me instead of seeing my very clear point, that is up to you, but the fact remains, I dont trust some of your Poeple in the Church, and for very good reason.

My basis for that was also very clear.

 

[Taken]

1. These images were in the holiest place of the sanctuary where only the high priest entered in once a year.

2. They weren’t to be worshipped and bowed down to.

3. The people were forbidden to make them for themselves.

"Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place." (Deuteronomy 27:15)

Cherubs, wreaths, animals, carvings unto the Lord....is honor unto the Lord.
Statues, unto men, is honor unto men...and is not honorable unto the Lord.

Cherubs, Angels, wreaths, animals, etc. correct... are not objects for men to bow to, (which is a mans outward sign of worship to the thing he bows down to )...

Statutes of men, for objects of men to BOW to ... ARE Objects of worship OF the Object.

Odd how the Catholics establish and teach "bowing down before Statues"... trinkets...beads...to remind them to worship God, is worshiping the thing they bow down to.
And Muslims...teach worship to their god, is bowing down on blended knee, facing the ground IS worship unto their god.

Bowing down before Statues...
Finger sign an air motion of a cross...
A common directive to Catholics.

Let's all bow "our heads" in prayer...
A common directive to Protestants.

Let's all "have a moment of silence" in remembrance;
requires no thought of "a god".

Praying unto the Lord God...requires no special place, time, statues, trinkets, etc...
It can be any place, any time, without ceasing.
Praying IS primarily ASKING the Lord God for something.

Praising the Lord God....requires no special place, time, statues, trinkets, etc.
It can be any place, any time, without ceasing.
Praising IS primarily EXALTING God.

Worship unto the Lord God...IS expressly bowing down before the Lord God in Heaven.
Worshiping IS primarily THANKING God.

No man requires a statue, trinkets, an altar, particular clothing, a particular place, a particular tic of the clock, tradition, etc.
TO; Pray, Praise or Worship the Lord God.

Glory to God, <--- (that is a Praise unto God)
Taken

 

[TheslightestID]

Why are belligerently anti-Catholics pathologically incapable of giving a straight answer to a simple question asked by a Catholic?

Please stop going into such denial, and being so quick to avoid the answers, that you cannot even see them, and you might find your questions ARE being answered.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not according to Scripture. Only according to Catholic dogma. Paul even speaks about James "THE LORD'S BROTHER". There is no doubt as to what he means. He could have said cousin, or half-brother, or something else. But he said "the Lord's brother" and he knew this first-hand.

On a side note it is interesting to see that Communist Pope Francis wants to shut down the Latin Mass. He hates conservative Catholics as much as he hates conservative non-Catholic Christians. But Muslims are his spiritual "brothers". What a farce!

Do you believe that Jesus's mother (MarY) had a uterine sister ALSO named "Mary"?
John 19:25 states, "But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s SISTER (adelphe), Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene".

How about Peter and his "120" "brothers" (Adelphoi) in the upper room in Acts 1?? Was his mom THAT much of a baby-factory - or is this word being used for something other than uterine siblings?
According to YOUR logic - there is NO other option for the use of this word.

HOWEVER, an educated Scripture scholar understands that "Adelphos" and ALL of its uses in the NT rarely mean "uterine siblings". In fact - there are 344 instances are instances where the word “Adelphos” and all of its variations are used in the NT.
- 41 times (12%) are cases where "Adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 instances (14%) are cases where "Adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- 256 instances (74%) are cases where "Adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does NOT refer to a family sibling.

The Protestant insistence that Jesus had "siblings" is based on nothing other than YOUR DESIRE that He did because of your disdain for Catholic teaching. NONE of your Protestant Fathers believed in this nonsense. But, like ALL good Protestants do - you've divorced yourself from THEIR teachings as well. That's what Protestantism is: Perpetual Divorce.

As for Pope Francis and the Latin Mas - he had reasons for issuing the motu proprio limiting the Latin Mass because of hyper Traditionalist abuses.

 

[Illuminator]

These are wrong too!



The formation of statues/images is forbidden by scripture. Wether for worship or for garnishments.

And the argument that God allows for statues in religious settings is flawed. The temple/sanctuary are no more!

We worship God in Spirit and in truth now. Not with instruments and ceremonies.

"And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more." (Jeremiah 3:16)

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)

Our YouTube channel sees a constant influx of people claiming that Catholics worship statues. This is in spite of my making a video on that very topic demonstrating that we do not worship statues! After all, statues are merely wood, marble, and plaster. Further, statues are are dead: they cannot hear us, see us, or do anything because they are dead.

Catholics understand this. In the Catholic Church, statues are just symbols, representations of our brothers and sisters of faith who have gone before us. They also recall to our minds their holy lives and how they followed Christ in an extraordinary way.

In Catholicism, statues are akin to pictures of your family that you carry in your wallet or hang on your wall at home. They call to mind your family that you love. Whether in heave or on earth, Catholicism is a family with many brothers and sisters.

While this makes sense to most, non-Catholics are quick to ask about Catholics kneeling before statues, bowing in front of them, or even kissing them. They see these things as acts of worship and treating these statues as idols.

Just because a person kisses something does not mean they are worshipping that person, place, or thing. If kissing or bowing is always an act of worship, then men who kiss their wives would be guilty of worshipping them. Women who kiss a picture of their husbands who are away in the military would be guilty of worshipping that picture and her husband.

Most people can see the big difference in intention between kissing something out of worship vs. kissing something out of love and affection. Bowing and kneeling and kissing could be performed as acts of worship. Or, they could be done as signs of love and respect. It all comes down to the intention and motive of the heart.

Why do Catholics kneel before statues and kiss them?
I had a friend once in college, and his father died. When we found out, a bunch of guys ran like mad around the campus looking for this poor boy in order to tell him the tragic news. Apparently, he already found out. When we finally located him, he was in a chapel praying and crying. He was sitting on the floor holding a picture of his deceased father, and he was hugging the picture and kissing it all while crying his eyes out.

I did not accuse him of worshipping the picture just because he was kissing and hugging it. This picture became a vivid visual memory of his father. Moreover, since this boy could not hug and kiss his real father, he symbolically hugged and kissed his picture out of love. It had nothing to do with worship of an image.
It is the same for Catholics, and it is truly that simple. In the Catholic Church, whether you live now, live in the past, or will live in the future, if you are part of the body of then you are family. Statues are simply reminders of our spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ who have gone before us. Each time we see a statue, it recalls to our minds their stories and the lives of holiness they lived. It reminds us of their virtues and how passionately they followed Christ. They are role models for us.

So for example, if someone kisses a statue of Jesus, Catholics understand that it is not the real Jesus. Just as that boy could not kiss his father in person and so symbolically kissed his picture, so Catholics cannot kiss Christ in person and so kiss the statue of Jesus as a symbolic act of love.

So again, if we kiss a statue, it is simply an external and symbolic gesture of our love for Christ (or another brother or sister in our family, in the body of Christ). It is in the same way that we kiss pictures of our loves ones or maybe even rub the picture as a way to connect with them and their memory.

Analogously, just because a person kneels or bows before something does not mean they are worshipping it. Like kissing, it all depends on the intention behind it. The Bible exhorts us to kiss one another with a holy kiss (2 Corinthians 13:12). At the same time, Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. So, the intention is of utmost importance.

After all, Protestants kneel on the floor in front of their Bibles. We don’t assume they are worshipping it. They may even kiss the Bible. We do not yell and scream that they should be kissing Christ and not a book. Rather, we understand it’s a symbolic gesture of love and respect for the Scriptures.

When Catholics kneel before a statue, it is a posture of prayer to God. Even if we ask a saint to pray for us to Jesus on our behalf, the end goal and desire of all of our prayers is God through Jesus Christ. Since He is the end of our prayers, our kneeling is to Him.

 

[Mungo]

Ok, how do you know they they didn't, but who cares? The basiss for my belief is that they are just people in a church, no one special, the very answer I already gave, and the only answer you need....get it?. See, in order to hear my answers, you must listen to them. If you choose not to accept them, then that is up to you, but no amount of your claiming I dodged your questions are going to change things.

When I say beliefs I don't mean your anti-Catholic prejudices.
I mean your doctrinal beliefs.
The people who discerned and agreed which books to canonise were 'just people in a Church'.
How do you know these 'people in a church' picked the right books?
Then
If you dismiss them as 'just people in a Church' then what basis do you have for your beliefs?

 

[Mungo]

Already told you.



If you choose to go in in to denia/avoid the facts, and ease the conversation into problems with me instead of seeing my very clear point, that is up to you, but the fact remains, I dont trust some of your Poeple in the Church, and for very good reason.

My basis for that was also very clear.

I haven't denied/avoided any facts.

 

[Illuminator]

V. Posture in Prayer, Veneration and Worship
Deut. 5:9 – God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.

Rev. 3:9 – Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship, just as kissing a picture of a family member is not worship.

Gen. 19:1 – Lot bowed down to the ground in veneration before two angels in Sodom.

Gen. 24:52 – Abraham’s servant bowed himself to the earth before the Lord.

Gen. 42:6 – Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground.

Jos. 5:14 – Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an angel.

1 Sam. 28:14 – Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.

1 Kings 1:23 – the prophet Nathan bows down before King David.

2 Kings 2:15 – the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha at Jericho.

1 Chron. 21:21 – Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David with his face to the ground.

1 Chron. 29:20 – Israelites bowed down to worship God and give honor to the king.

2 Chron. 29:29-30 – King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.

Dan. 2:46 – the king fell down on his face paying homage to Daniel and commands that an offering be made to him.

Dan. 8:17 – Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.

Not all bowing is worship. Get it?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Figuratively:
is: Carnal Understanding
is: not unique to all of mankind.

Trusting Scriptural Truths;
leads to: Spiritual Understanding
is: unique that it only comes from God

Really?
So, even though God is SPIRIT - YOU believe that He has -
Nostrils? (Exod. 15:8)
Wings? (Psalm 17:8)
Feathers? (Psalm 91:4)

These are the idiotic conclusions that ultra-literalists like YOU must arrive at when you read Scripture - instead of understanding that SOME things are figurative or symbolic.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can hardly finish saying "all about Jesus",
Before...turn to accrediting;
Mary, Mary, Mary..
"The FUFFILLMENT"...

You don't even know what you are saying...

Time for another Bible lesson . . .

The following OT TYPE and NT FULFILLMENT, although directly involving Mary - ALL points to Jesus:

OT - The Tabernacle that housed the Ark was overshadowed by the cloud of glory of the Lord (Shekinah glory) filled the Tabernacle (2 Chron. 5:13-14).
NT - Mary was overshadowed by the power of the Most High (Luke 1:35).

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) who carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the Word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

 

[Illuminator]

These are wrong too!

Then why were the statues of the reformers made in the first place? It proves anti-Catholics can't agree on much of anything.

 

[BreadOfLife]

* I don't have to prove anything.
* Scripture itself reveals the truth.
* The Truth itself dispels your corrupt interjection teaching and lack of understanding.

And yet - you keep fighting the fact that Jesus was His mother's SEED (Gen. 3:15) and that SHE conceived Him in HER womb (Luke 1:31).

 

[TheslightestID]

When I say beliefs I don't mean your anti-Catholic prejudices.
I mean your doctrinal beliefs.
The people who discerned and agreed which books to canonise were 'just people in a Church'.
How do you know these 'people in a church' picked the right books?
Then
If you dismiss them as 'just people in a Church' then what basis do you have for your beliefs?

Already answered.