I do not believe in cessationism either... and I believe John MacArthur is a Calvinist... therefore I do not allow myself to be taught by certain people. I have said this before... It has taken me 20 years to learn a few SOLID TRUTHS about God... I trust NO MAN... and I do not allow myself to be taught by those who follow doctrines that are heretical.
Biblical Salvation
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I do not believe in cessationism either... and I believe John MacArthur is a Calvinist... therefore I do not allow myself to be taught by certain people. I have said this before... It has taken me 20 years to learn a few SOLID TRUTHS about God... I trust NO MAN... and I do not allow myself to be taught by those who follow doctrines that are heretical.
so you suppose that a sinner is saved without the need to first "repent and believe" as Jesus Himself says?
indeed, as this is what the Bible Teaches. If you think that I am wrong, then please feel free to correct me
yeah, like in other places, when you can't really respond from the Bible, you say it is a waste of time responding! then why bother to comment in the first place. There has not been ONE person who has managed to disprove what I have written in the OP. Have a nice day
You are correct... I do not debate scripture with others. and I usually stay out of the debate threads... so I am sorry if this has offended you.
Not everyone on these forums are looking to be TAUGHT... some are here for fellowship and lightening the MOOD here and there. Have a nice day yourself.
I am not offended in any way. There are certain Doctrines that not everyone can grasp, and tend to argue from experience or what they "think" the Bible should say, as we have seen on the issue of homosexuality. Theology is not for everyone, especially the deeper stuff. There is nothing "light" about Bible Doctrine, at least, not to me.
You have misunderstood and mis-judged what I know and don't know. I fully understand what Salvation is and what one must do to receive it.
I am most interested in the truths of WHO GOD IS... He has taught me a thing or two in the last 20 years. My faith is SACRED and I guard it. It does not in the least bother me what others think of me. I answer to God.
If you look around at these forums... EVERYONE and their dog has an opinion and different beliefs about absolutely EVERYTHING... It is foolish to expect truth from places like this... yet it does exist if one is able to sift through all the lies.
Again... I am sorry to have wasted your time. It's actually a good reminder to me of why I need to stay out of these kind of threads. LOL
no, you have NOT wasted my time at all. Thanks for taking your time to comment. What I do take issue with, is when people (not you) simply give their personal "opinions" about what the Bible says, and when pressed to show from the Bible, they start to attack. I take the Bible very seriously, and my study of it, which no doubt you also do. Have a great day and may our Wonderful Saviour bless you.
Well, anyone can say that to anyone with a different take that theirs on what is the gospel.
Tong
R2527
it is not my TAKE on anything. Jesus Christ THE Authority as God, has said, to be saved a sinner has to REPENT of their sins, and BELIEVE in the Gospel about Him, to be saved. Then Joe comes along and thinks he knows better than God! The Gospel is very simple IF people allow the Bible to say what it does, without adding their theological spin to it! Like John 3:16, when it says, "God so loves the world...", it means the "entire human race", as even John Calivin said, "everyone without exception". THIS is what the Bible means, until silly humans try to pervert it!
Between us, no one denies that Jesus preached repentance and faith towards God.
Some, many even, think that the gospel is the HOW man gets to be saved, when the gospel is simply this, that some 2000+ years ago, the salvation of God of mankind has finally come.
And this is the salvation of God: BY GRACE.
Tong
R2528
What I said is:
“Between us, no one denies that Jesus preached repentance and faith towards God. ”
What I meant to say is that we both do not deny that Jesus preached repentance and faith towards God.
But in answer to your question, if you are asking if repentance and faith toward God is a “prerequirement” for salvation, I’d say that there isn’t a “prerequirement” for salvation. One could not do anything that could be said as to merit him or have him deserve salvation. For scriptures is clear, salvation is by grace. It is God who saves and saves those whom He wills to save, apart from their works.
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
The passage above tells us what God had done. God had made us alive together with Christ, and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. He had done all that. Meaning, those were already finished.
Now, according to the passage, when had God done and finished all that? It was even at a time when we were dead in trespasses. So, not after we have repented unto Him and have faith in Him, but even when we were yet sinners, as in dead in trespasses.
That is unmistakably, salvation by grace. There isn’t a “prerequirement” for salvation.
The question is, who are they whom God had made alive together with Christ, and raised up together, and made to sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus?
This is where the repentance and faith towards God come in.
Tong
R2529
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
All of those whom God is saving will repent and believe. Of course. But salvation isn't granted on that basis. Repentance and belief are coincidental, not causal. God isn't saving because we believed; we believe because he is saving us.
this is not what Jesus says in John 3:16. I know that the KJV Bible has mistranslated the Greek in Acts 2:47, so as to give the impression that there are only certain people that God wants to save. But this is because of their theological bias, and nothing to do with what the Greek actually says. the beauty of the Gospel is, that ANYONE who calls on the Name of the Lord, will be saved. The "refomed" limitation of salvation is utter rubbish
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
John 3:16
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Don't fall into that trap brother, giving something a label in order to dismiss it out of hand. Let's examine our assumptions and get to the heart of the matter. Paul does not contradict Jesus when he argues that salvation is the workmanship of a transcendent creator. And Jesus is not ruling this out either. In fact, if we consider John 3:16 in context, Jesus defines the "whoever" in terms of spirituality. That is, those who believe are those on whom God has poured out his spirit (Paul's words) born from above (Jesus' words.) In that context, Jesus explains, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
So then, even in this context, Jesus qualifies the "whoever" to those individuals whom God has granted a spiritual rebirth. Unless an individual is born again, Jesus says, that man can't see the kingdom of heaven. In other words, which individual believes depends on the quiddity of the individual.
One need only take a lesson from God's promises to Israel concerning the last days when Israel will be granted "circumcised hearts."
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
This was said in the context of a prediction concerning the deliverance, i.e. salvation of those living at the time. Only after God pours out his spirit into their hearts do they remember their evil ways and repent. (verse 31) Not only this, but he tells them that he doesn't save them for their own sake (verse 32) Why does he do it? To restore his holy name. (verse 23)
Bottom line: God saves whomever he wants to save and for his own purposes. We believe if we want to believe, but what we want is based on the kind of heart we have. If God has given us a new heart and a new spirit, then we will see our sins and repent. There is your "ordo salutis"
