Biblical Support v Explicit Biblical Teaching

[Wrangler]

Once Saved Always Saved
Forever Virgin Mary
Absolute Equality Between the Father and the Son

These are some topics that if you accept the doctrine, you can find passages that seem to support it. However, this is not the same as an explicit Biblical teaching, e.g., Roman 3:21-25. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus, who took our sins away. Or John 14:6 Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father but through Jesus.

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Apologetics forum or the Debate forum but it seems many confuse doctrines they have with actual explicit Biblical teaching. If one starts with the doctrine, one can find verses that APPEAR to support their doctrine but other alternative explanations for the application or interpretation of the verse ought to be considered. The most famous is John 1:1, which does not even mention Jesus.

So, John 1:1 can support a doctrine one already believes but cannot be used as an example of an explicit Biblical teaching, such as God created man on the 6th day and then rested. I think there would be a lot less infighting if we humbly recognized the difference between doctrines which have Biblical Support v Explicit Biblical Teaching. See 109 page debate on Once Saved Always Saved. Thoughts?

 

[Wrangler]

This video does a good job explaining the difference.

 

[Yan]

This video does a good job explaining the difference.

Is the trinity biblical ?
Yes and the bible clearly define it here :

1 John 5:4-12
4. because everyone who has been fathered by God conquers the world. This is the conquering power that has conquered the world: our faith.
5. Now who is the person who has conquered the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
6. Jesus Christ is the one who came by water and blood – not by the water only, but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7. For there are three that testify,
8. the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.
9. If we accept the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, because this is the testimony of God that he has testified concerning his Son.
10. (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.)
11. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12. The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life.

So, if Holy Spirit existed before Jesus came into the world (Acts of the apostles 7:51-53) then why did Jesus born into the world and why did he told that he will sent another (John 14:16-18) ?
Jesus came into the world to save remaining Israel from being captived by Hellenistic religion as until today they haven't obey his commandments and also he taught the true wisdom of God Father as thru 10 Commandments mankind doesn't use it with love & compassion rather of they'd used the law to oppress civilians and make use of it for their own profit to ruled over them, he was also came as the sign of Manna to remind remaining Israel to their God who delivers out from Egypt (Deuteronomy 8), what Jesus had gave to people wasn't like the teaching of this world as the world don't know God and many of them allied with the world (John 14:23-28; John 15:18-27).

 

[Wrangler]

Is the trinity biblical ?
Yes and

No. In this thread, claiming something is ‘Biblical’ is not equal to explicitly taught. You don’t seem to grasp the difference.

 

[Philip James]

The most famous is John 1:1, which does not even mention Jesus.

Hello Wrangler,

You think not?

And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

John testified to him and cried out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.'"

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Wrangler]

You think not?

Right. Keep in mind what is merely ‘supported’ from an explicit Biblical teaching. As I wrote in the OP, there is little dispute that man was created on Day 6.

This is in contrast to the 109 pages of Once Saved Always Saved thread.

 

[Enoch111]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Apologetics forum or the Debate forum but it seems many confuse doctrines they have with actual explicit Biblical teaching.

The problem today is that too many want EXPLICIT statements in the Bible before they will accept the Truth. But that is not how God and Christ communicate. Many things are simply implied in Scripture so that we may exercise faith and use our intelligence also. So to all those looking for explicit statements, just be aware that the Bible is NOT a textbook of systematic theology.

Jesus said "Before Abraham was I AM". Unless one is prepared to examine what this means he or she will stumble at this plain statement of the deity of Christ. And we need ONLY ONE SUCH STATEMENT to settle a doctrine, because those are the recorded words of Christ.

So where do we see God the WORD saying He is "I AM"? We see that in Exodus 3. And where do we see God the WORD coming to Abraham and speaking to him? We see that in Genesis 15:1.

After these things the Word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. [Note: In view of John 1:1, the KJB translators had a duty to capitalize "word" in this verse, but they failed to do so].

It is God the Word speaking to Abraham and saying "I am thy shield and thy exceeding great reward". This is Christ, the I AM, who was before Abraham, and in fact directed Abraham to leave Mesopotamia and go to Canaan.

How do we know that the Word is God? From John 1:1, which was deliberately mangled by the Jehovah's Witnesses: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Now if someone refuses to believe this then that person is WILFULLY BLIND. And God then blinds those who are wilfully blind.

As an aside, how in the world do you become a Jehovah's Witness when you do not even testify to what is true about Jehovah (I AM THAT I AM)?

 

[Enoch111]

Peace be with you!

I would not say that to one who denies the deity of Christ.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Hello Wrangler,

You think not?

And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

John testified to him and cried out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.'"

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Amen.
Something I've noticed and maybe this is long standing practice here are the number of threads that presume to insist the bible doesn't actually contain long standing teachings held precious by Christians.
Baptism isn't of the import Jesus said it is in entering into him and then new covenant, Salvation is not eternal therefore God's gifts are revocable, there isn't one God but rather three separate and distinct persons in heaven, Jesus isn't God but is a being in the flesh in heaven, and so forth.

 

[Philip James]

I would not say that to one who denies the deity of Christ.

Why not? They need it most of all!

Peace!

 

[Amazed@grace]

Why not? They need it most of all!

Peace!

How does someone who denies the divinity of Christ, thereby denying Christ, find or have peace?

 

[Philip James]

How does someone who denies the divinity of Christ, thereby denying Christ, find or have peace?

By being converted by the love of Christ!

Peace!

 

[Amazed@grace]

By being converted by the love of Christ!

Peace!

Whom they deny is divine.
Is denying the divinity of Christ,
his being holy God, blasphemy of that holy spirit?

 

[Philip James]

Whom they deny is divine.
Is denying the divinity of Christ,
his being holy God, blasphemy of that holy spirit?

Dear sister,

All the more to reach out to them no?

For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.

And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.

If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount.

But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.

"Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[robert derrick]

I would not say that to one who denies the deity of Christ.

"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed" 2 John

 

[robert derrick]

Dear sister,

All the more to reach out to them no?

For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.

And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.

If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount.

But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.

"Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

You look like a bear of a man and have a heart of gold...(No, I m not hitting on you. I am happily married)

 

[robert derrick]

Explicit Bible Doctrine: Scripture plainly written without possible differing interpretations.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Not, and the Word was referentially God, not symbolically God, not figuratively God, nor kinda like God.

The Word was God. And still is. And the Word was with God, and is again...(Not just figuratively with God, trying to figure out how to help God create the world on the fly, because, I mean, he had just been created. So he needed at least a little training. One would think.)

One of the greatest things about the way God had His Word written is to take the crafty in their own craftiness. There are plenty of Scriptures freely open to differing interpretations, however, when it comes to His first principles and lain foundation of the apostles, He will in one place or another just come right out and say it.

And only the unbeliever with a personal issue about Scripture, and especially Jesus, will try and avoid it, whether by crafty pseudo-intellectual 'scholarship', or by pathetic sidestepping around it.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Dear sister,

All the more to reach out to them no?

For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.

And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.

If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount.

But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.

"Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" John 7:24

I think when someone denies God in Christ, they shall not be moved by those people who are in Christ.
I think also that it is not we who reach the lost, but God who opens hearts and minds.

Using God's word to put forth arguments against his divinity in Christ, and opposing other of his teachings through that method, I see as reminiscent of an agenda.

11. Scripture Twisters (2 Peter 3:14-18) | Bible.org

 

[Wrangler]

Oh, another example of a doctrine with support (on both sides) is Soul Sleep.

 

[Wrangler]

The problem today is that too many want EXPLICIT statements in the Bible before they will accept the Truth.

This is an epistemological problem. The reverse is much more defendable. The problem today is that too many want to claim Truth despite no EXPLICIT statements in the Bible.