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Davy
Well-Known Member
You mean the seminaries of Historicism says it already happened. God's Word never said it was fulfilled.
As a matter of fact, the "abomination of desolation" event Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel is about this event in Jerusalem...
Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
That area in red is where our Lord Jesus was quoting from the Book of Daniel in His Olivet discourse:
Matt 24:15-27
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV
Those events Jesus foretold us have NEVER HAPPENED TO THIS DAY.
The closest example of fulfillment of the AOD was with Antiochus IV who conqured Jerusalem, went into the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar thus desolating it, and then setup an idol abomination to Zeus worship. But Antiochus did that about 200 years BEFORE Jesus quoted from Daniel about this event in Matthew 24! So those claiming the AOD was past history, and citing Antiochus, show egg on their face.
Now in 70 A.D. when the Romans took Jerusalem and destroyed it, per the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), the Romans tried to capture the temple. The Roman general Titus had no intention of destroying it. Yet the temple caught fire inside it during the battle over it, and it burned down. No doubt the Jews set fire to it inside the temple to prevent the Romans from desolating it like Antiochus did in 165 B.C. Thus the Romans could not... desolate the temple in 70 A.D., because it burned, melted the gold, which the Romans then went after, destroying it completely; well almost, the Western Wall is still standing today, which shows Jesus' prophecy that not one stone atop another there hasn't been fulfilled yet.
You say it never happened base on your failure to recognize it having happened. = extreme hubris.
Davy
Well-Known Member
If you're saying Antiochus IV fulfilled it in 165-170 B.C., then you have egg on your face. Because Jesus didn't come yet at that time to prophesy of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel.
If I can live to 93-96 years of age, then I might see the end of this present age. But that is not within my scope of controlling.
Davy
Well-Known Member
No it didn't. The Romans couldn't commit it because the temple burned down before they could get possession of it.
The AoD began with the Jews rejecting Christ's sacrifice on the cross and continued with the animal sacrifices as a standing practice in the Holy Place. Finished off in the desolation when the armies removed the temple and city.
Davy
Well-Known Member
No it didn't. That's not even what the "abomination of desolation" is about from the Book of Daniel, and I think you well know it.
Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
That in red is what the "abomination of desolation" is that Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel. It is NOT a destruction of the temple; it is a spiritual desolation of the temple using an idol abomination.
(@Naomi25 See, this is the kind of stuff the seminaries are famous for, denying the actual written Scripture in place of a doctrine of men.)
Jesus said the Aod would appear to his present audience (Matthew 24). Which it did, and they escaped because they recognized it.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Read and heed...
Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
But, Jesus fulfilled the 70th week on time and the Aod was part of the following judgement.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Read and heed...
Dan 11:30-31
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
Egg on your face!
It was about 200 years AFTER... Antiochus had died when Jesus referred to the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel.
Antiochus IV in Jerusalem (165 B.C. - 170 B.C.)
Jesus of Nazareth in Jerusalem (4 B.C. - 29 A.D.)
“For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.” (Daniel 11:30–31)
h. That is, yt Romaine power shal come against him: for P Popilius the ambassador appointed him to depart in the Romaines name, to which thing he obeid, althogh with grief, and to revenge his rage he came against the people of God the seconde time.
i. With the Jewes which shal forsake the covnant of the Lord: for first he was called against yc Jewes by Jason the hie Priest, and this seconde time by Menelaus.
Verse 31
k. A great faction of yc wicked Jewes shal holde with Antiochus.
l. So called, because yc power of God was nothing diminished, althogh this tyrant set up in the Temple yc image of Jupiter Olympius, and so began to corrupt the pure service of God.
Geneva Bible: Notes. (1560). (Vol. 1, p. 364). Geneva: Rovland Hall.
Naomi25
Well-Known Member
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Oh...I see it well...but probably not in the way you would like me too.
Tell me....if Christ came and offered himself as the perfect lamb of God for the sins of all people....how could it NOT be seen as an abomination for the Jews to continue to offer up the incense of burning meat to God?
He sent his Son, and they killed him. He departed the temple, they ignored it. He ripped the curtain, they ignored that too. He offered the perfect sacrifice that meant they would no longer be in bondage to constant law and imperfect sacrifice not totally cleansing them...and they rejected it and continuing sending that smell up.
How do you honestly think God would have seen it?
I think we know...he allowed the Roman army to be his arm of justice, just as he often used pagan nations in the OT. Horrible, sad...but, for God, totally justified. And we rest in his promise in Romans 11 that he has not abandoned those he foreknew and loved for the sake of the forefathers...
Davy
Well-Known Member
The idea of abominations per the OT were about pagan worship, and pagan acts involved in worship, like religiously cutting oneself like the Baal worshipers did, marking oneself, etc. But the worship of idols of wood, metal, and stone were the height of abomination to God. And for an idol to be worshiped at His House is the height of that kind of abomination...
Ezek 8:2-6
2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
Just because our Lord Jesus already came and died on the cross and was resurrected doesn't mean He has already established His de facto Kingdom here on earth yet. You have blinders on, because the world today is gearing up for another possible world war! And those who hate our Heavenly Father and His Son are still given power over many nations. This our Lord Jesus did not show as His time of reign over the nations, so those who lie in trying to say it is are just plain foolish.
He brought the eternal kingdom with him. And will complete it in the new heavens and earth on the last day.
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