Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Behold]

24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Well, i can see that you are looking at the situation from one narrow point of view.........and when you read The Same apostle who said in Titus 1:10, to get rid of a brother or sister who is subverted, by a "doctrine of devils"...........that when you read that, you just ignore it.

I dont.

See, as i told you.......if someone is on a Forum, leading unbelievers to Hell with a false Gospel........that they have taught, for years on the Forum... then its obvious they are beyond correction.
So, you can use whatever bible verse you want, to defend that one.....but you'll never be correct when you do it.

 

[Behold]

Then the Calvinists were right, that Jesus did NOT pay for the sins of those who never believe?

Jesus paid for the sin of everyone............but this Sacrifice, is not automatically applied to anyone.

Salvation is Jesus on The Cross.........>He is Salvation......and His eternal sacrifice for sin is offered universally, but it not applied universally.

God only applies it as "the gift of Salvation" and "The Gift of Righteousness", and "the Gift of Eternal Life".... when you Trust in Christ, and then YOUR = "faith is counted by God, as rightousness"..

So, if you never give God your Faith in Christ, then God never gives you "the Gift of Salvation", and you die in your sins, and Hell is your first stop after you die.

 

[Lambano]

Y'know, for all this talk about "leading people to Hell with false doctrine", I have to ask how many people we're driving to Hell because our &$$#@!% behavior pushes people away from Christ, the only source of salvation.

 

[Behold]

Y'know, for all this talk about "leading people to Hell with false doctrine",

Jesus is the only Way to God, so He is the only WAY to Heaven......John 14:6

Any other gospel, is a false gospel.

Universalism, is a "doctrine of devils"... KJV - (Hebrews 13:9)..... and its possibly the worse Satanic Gospel ever created by The Devil that is taught by His deceived.
The reason i believe its the worst......is that There is No Cross of Christ , found in Universalism......that deals with a person's sin, based on How this actually happens for them, while they are alive where it must happen.
See..... @Lambano there is no "Believing" and being "Born again" while you are alive and can do it..........found in the False Gospel of Universalism.

 

[Lambano]

That's a curious view.
As I understand it, Jesus paid the death penalty for our sin. (paid in full)
How can that NOT be efficacious? Was there something incomplete in the work?

[

You never got around to deconstructing the Atonement?

 

[St. SteVen]

You never got around to deconstructing the Atonement?

Apparently not.
I know there are different views. But they just sounded like pigeon-holing to me.
Christians love to label others. (mostly Damnationists) - LOL

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Y'know, for all this talk about "leading people to Hell with false doctrine", I have to ask how many people we're driving to Hell because our &$$#@!% behavior pushes people away from Christ, the only source of salvation.

--- PARODY ---

Christian: You should become a Christian.
Victim: Why on earth would I want to do that?
Christian: Huh? What do you mean?
Victim: Christians are the worst people on the planet.
Christian: No, sinners like you are the worst.
Victim: Seriously?
Christian: Yes, that's what the Bible says.
Victim: Doesn't it also say not to judge others?
Christian: I'm not judging you. That will come later.
Victim: Like when?
Christian: After you die without Christ.
Victim: Are you talking about a forever burning hell?
Christian: Yes, that's where you are going.
Victim: How would you know?
Christian: Again, that's what the Bible says.
Victim: But what do you say?
Christian: I agree with the Bible.
Victim: You are proving my point about why I don't want to be a Christian.
Christian: Why not?
Victim: I don't want to be like you.

Indeed.

[

 

[Behold]

Christians love to label others. (mostly Damnationists) - LOL

IN. your fantastical religious inner world.........God is only love, there is no Hell for Christ rejectors, and all theology is just opinion and the bible can be compared as "floating like soap". @St. SteVen

So, one day, maybe you'll begin to live in the real world, in your mind.
I dont see that day approaching, but...... one never knows what is coming your way until it lands.

Ecc 8:11

 

[Lambano]

That's a curious view.
As I understand it, Jesus paid the death penalty for our sin. (paid in full)
How can that NOT be efficacious? Was there something incomplete in the work?

You never got around to deconstructing the Atonement?

I've gone through the deconstruction of the Penal Substitution theory of the Atonement on other forums.

There are seven different theological models of how the Atonement works, each with a biblical basis. All of them have problems. You have assumed the Penal Substitution model; now let's turn a critical eye on that. One of the points of contention between the Calvinists and the Arminians is the "L" in TULIP, limited atonement. Calvinists argue that since universal salvation is clearly not taught in the Bible (I see you warming up your keyboard there!), Christ could NOT have died for the sins of the whole world. The underlying assumption is that Christ's death actually accomplished something, but what EXACTLY did it do? If you say, "it paid for my sins" examine it critically like you did the Hell doctrine. How did it pay for your sins? The wages of sin is death, and you're going to die anyway. If God is just, how can having the "righteous die for the unrighteous" be considered justice in any form? If God tells us to forgive others' sins against us, why does He demand payment for ours? Does God hold us to a higher standard than He holds Himself? Deconstruction: It makes the comfortable a little uncomfortable, doesn't it?

So, if you deconstruct Penal Substitution, what is the meaning of Christ's death in the biblical context?

 

[Lambano]

I could've/should've posted that in Brightfame52's thread on the efficaciousness of Christ's death, but urinating upwind is a futile endeavor.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well, i can see that you are looking at the situation from one narrow point of view.........and when you read The Same apostle who said in Titus 1:10, to get rid of a brother or sister who is subverted, by a "doctrine of devils"...........that when you read that, you just ignore it.

I dont.

See, as i told you.......if someone is on a Forum, leading unbelievers to Hell with a false Gospel........that they have taught, for years on the Forum... then its obvious they are beyond correction.
So, you can use whatever bible verse you want, to defend that one.....but you'll never be correct when you do it.

Take a look at verse that follows...

13"...Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."

That seems a lot more appropriate than declaring a member a 'son of the devil...'

So judging a member brings judgement on you (Rom 14) I hope you are aware of the seriousness of this.

 

[St. SteVen]

The wages of sin is death, and you're going to die anyway.

Here's a wrench. (another wrench?)

My definition of death.
I don't believe that the wages of sin is physical death.
It's spiritual death.

Therefore the atonement could certainly pay our debt of spiritual death for sin.

Two kinds of death.
1) physical death
2) spiritual death

Ephesians 2:4-5 NIV
But because of his great love for us,
God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even
when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

[

 

[Lambano]

My definition of death.
I don't believe that the wages of sin is physical death.
It's spiritual death.

What does "spiritual death" even mean? If you have a spirit, it stops existing?

Death is death. What was once "you" no longer lives.

 

[Behold]

Take a look at verse that follows...

13"...Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."

You should have looked at that verse you posted, about 3 posts back..........as then you would have realized that your posts you were sending, were not theologically informed, or even very well thought out.

Im glad you have now read a little more bible.

Be sure to read these to learn more about the Real God and the Real Christ The Lord, and the Apostle Paul.

Titus 1:10

2 Tim 4:14

Acts 5:5,10

Romans 12:19

1 Thess 4:6

:2 Thess 1: 8-9

That seems a lot more appropriate than declaring a member a 'son of the devil...'

If you are doing the devil's work on a Forum. (teaching a false Gospel) .......then you are a deceived Christian, or a literal son of the Devil.
So, they prove that themselves..........i just highlight it.
Ive never said to anyone here, 'you are a son of the devil".....or "you are not a Christian".

Now........Jesus declares all unbelievers........as : "You are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father, you shall do"..

So, if the Devil owns a Believers mind, they are being used as if they are a son of the devil.
If they are not born then they are literally a son/daugter of the Devil.

Hebrews 13:9... KJV.... teaches that there are man made : "doctrines of Devils'., and they will capture your mind, unless you do what that verse says to do with your "HEART".

So, a deceiver can be a christian, who is deceived by the devil...."mind blinded" and that is why they believe and teach false theology, and a False Gospel, and believe it is true and that they are "led of the spirit" to do it.

So judging a member brings judgement on you (Rom 14) I hope you are aware of the seriousness of this.

"you shall know them by their fruit"..

So, on a forum, we can't see each other in real life, so, we evaluate a person's Christianity, their BELIEF SYSTEM, = as their posted Theology, and POSTS..... as this is their Spiritual FRUIT on display for all to evaluate.
And if they post Cross Rejecting Heresy... A False Gospel.... (Hyper Calvinism.. or Baptismal Regeneration, or Universalism, ect).......and you defend them, then you are also defending their right to teach heresy... that is designed to harm the faith of real believers, and in the case of the Universalism Gospel........its designed to send a unbeliever to HELL.
I dont defend that by trying to bend the bible to do it, or by any other means. @Carl Emerson

 

[complete]

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)

The Bible does NOT love me.
It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

'Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
teaching and admonishing one another
in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.'
(Col 3:16-17)

Hello @St. SteVens:

Yes, but we are told to allow the word of God to dwell in us richly, are we not? For the Holy Spirit then has an arsenal of potential weaponry to use in the defence of our faith when the enemy of our souls seeks to destroy it. He also uses it to bring growth in grace and truth, and in the knowledge of God and of His Christ, our Lord and Saviour. So, the believer without the engrafted word is a babe only, weak and without strength.

'Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness,
and receive with meekness the engrafted word,
which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word,
and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer,
he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way,
and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.'
(Jas 1:21-24)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[One 2 question]

Yes, but we are told to allow the word of God to dwell in us richly, are we not? For the Holy Spirit then has an arsenal of potential weaponry to use in the defence of our faith when the enemy of our souls seeks to destroy it. He also uses it to bring growth in grace and truth, and in the knowledge of God and of His Christ, our Lord and Saviour. So, the believer without the engrafted word is a babe only, weak and without strength.

For the Holy Spirit then has an arsenal of potential weaponry to use in the defence of our faith.

ALL Truth! That comes from Jesus. Where does Jesus get it from? His Source is His Father. This is where the Holy Spirit's complete arsenal of weaponry is located.

It's not the scriptures or bibles. It is far too small a supply.

 

[St. SteVen]

What does "spiritual death" even mean? If you have a spirit, it stops existing?

Death is death. What was once "you" no longer lives.

What sort of death is this describing?

Ephesians 2:4-5 NIV
But because of his great love for us,
God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even
when we were dead in transgressions—
it is by grace you have been saved.

Colossians 2:13-14 NIV
When you were dead in your sins
and in the uncircumcision of your flesh,
God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness,
which stood against us and condemned us;
he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Hello @St. SteVens:

Yes, but we are told to allow the word of God to dwell in us richly, are we not?

Yes, of course, And we should.
But this is not license to worship a book at the expense of our relationship with the author.

[

 

[One 2 question]

Hello @St. SteVens:

Yes, but we are told to allow the word of God to dwell in us richly, are we not?

Yes, of course, And we should.
But this is not license to worship a book at the expense of our relationship with the author.

[

Are you in agreement with eachother that by
Paul's reference to the word of Christ here he's refering to the bible. And that the bible is the word of Christ?

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you in agreement with eachother that by
Paul's reference to the word of Christ here he's refering to the bible. And that the bible is the word of Christ?

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

Aha...
That's an interesting point.
There was no Bible (new testament canon) when that was written.
So... what was the "the word of God (Christ)" in that time frame?

[ cc: @complete