Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Lizbeth]

I think I want that written on a couch pillow. - LOL


--- A closed mind gathers no knowledge. ---


/

Well then, consider whether this is simply a question of mortality or immortality for mankind. I just do not see any third option:

Psa 49:5-20

Wherefore should I fear in the days of evil, when the iniquity of my heels shall compass me about?

They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever)

That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.

For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names.

Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.

This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.

Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased;

For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him.

Though while he lived he blessed his soul: and men will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself.

He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.

Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.


2Pe 2:12

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Rom 2:7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1Co 15:53

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

2Ti 1:10

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[MatthewG]

Well then, consider whether this is simply a question of mortality or immortality for mankind. I just do not see any third option:

Psa 49:5-20

Wherefore should I fear in the days of evil, when the iniquity of my heels shall compass me about?

They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;

None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever

That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.

For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names.

Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.

This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.

Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Be not thou afraid when one is made rich, when the glory of his house is increased;

For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him.

Though while he lived he blessed his soul: and men will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself.

He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.

Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.


2Pe 2:12

But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


Rom 2:7

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1Co 15:53

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

2Ti 1:10

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Our natural state is in ignorance. When people come to believe in Christ and follow him, they put the old man in the grave with Jesus and rise again with Him newness of life! There is just but only one unforgivable sin; and that is to remain in unbelieving. This is not to those who tend to have doubts in their faith but those who choose actively to no walk towards Yahavah.

 

[Lizbeth]

With the payment of sin. Everyone was wiped clean. Salvation is given to all as they say, some don’t take it. It doesn’t mean it still is not given. My take away is that because of Jesus; he overcame death, sin, Satan, hell. That means all will continue to raise and be judged however there are differing glories of bodies like that stars, in the sky at night.

Some bright some not so bright some very very faint and some you need a telescope to see.

I believe in three resurrections not just two. I believe everyone will be given a spiritual body, given by God which is good cause he only gives good gifts and allows people to live on the outside of the gates.

The stars are those who are in His kingdom and have become "like the angels".

Isa 14:13
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north


There is no salvation, no life, outside the city, only darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth and condemnation - nothing to indicate redemption after death from there:

Rev 22:14-15

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

 

[Lizbeth]

Our natural state is in ignorance. When people come to believe in Christ and follow him, they put the old man in the grave with Jesus and rise again with Him newness of life! There is just but only one unforgivable sin; and that is to remain in unbelieving. This is not to those who tend to have doubts in their faith but those who choose actively to no walk towards Yahavah.

Jhn 3:17-19

“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

“And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


Jhn 5:28-29

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I only see two options everywhere........either condemnation or not condemned, saved or not saved, mortality or immortality, resurrection either to life or to condemnation, etc. Not seeing any third options or evidence of purgatory. (Where it says to buy from me gold refined in the fire is speaking to the church and it refers to this life, not after death.)

 

[Lizbeth]

If it’s Gods will that we are to receive, then we will, I don’t believe we can reject the will of God...he is the one who works in our hearts to receive, he also opens our heart to receive...no one imo can thwart the will of God, I think that is also Biblical.

Nothing can stop Gods will from being done..I think it can be hindered, but, it can never be thwarted..imo.

Yes, but don't forget it is also His "will" to have vessels of wrath as well as vessels of mercy. Based on His foreknowledge of the vessels. It is not His explicit will that any would perish......but in spite of that we know many will.

 

[MatthewG]

The stars are those who are in His kingdom and have become "like the angels".

Isa 14:13
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north


There is no salvation, no life, outside the city, only darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth and condemnation - nothing to indicate redemption after death from there:

Rev 22:14-15

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

In Revelation 21 you skipped over.

Jhn 3:17-19

“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

“And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


Jhn 5:28-29

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I only see two options everywhere........either condemnation or not condemned, saved or not saved, mortality or immortality, resurrection either to life or to condemnation, etc. Not seeing any third options or evidence of purgatory. (Where it says to buy from me gold refined in the fire is speaking to the church and it refers to this life, not after death.)

There is a resurrection that is better than the normal according to Paul, in Ephesians, and the writer of Hebrews mentions it as well.

The Lake of fire which people take part of is in front of the angels and the Lamb, and it’s the fire of Yahavah which believers are instilled with that fire as well - being baptized in Jesus… who baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire according to John.

So… the 12 gates never close or shut the outside out.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, but don't forget it is also His "will" to have vessels of wrath as well as vessels of mercy. Based on His foreknowledge of the vessels. It is not His explicit will that any would perish......but in spite of that we know many will.

Thanks Lizbeth..Amen!

 

[Hillsage]

With the payment of sin. Everyone was wiped clean.

I agree.

Salvation is given to all as they say, some don’t take it.

This is where it is more complicated IMO. I believe Peter said "Repent, then get baptized, then receive the holy spirit" then he said; "save yourselves from this wicked generation." So were they saved or not?

It doesn’t mean it still is not given. My take away is that because of Jesus; he overcame death, sin, Satan, hell. That means all will continue to raise and be judged however there are differing glories of bodies like that stars, in the sky at night.

I would agree there too. Going to heaven was His meritorious work done for us. The salvation we work on after that first salvation, doesn't get us INTO heaven, it determines our rewards and just how glorified our spiritual body will be.

Some bright some not so bright some very very faint and some you need a telescope to see.

2CO 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

I believe in three resurrections not just two. I believe everyone will be given a spiritual body, given by God which is good cause he only gives good gifts and allows people to live on the outside of the gates.

Interesting. Unpack that a bit more.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, but don't forget it is also His "will" to have vessels of wrath as well as vessels of mercy. Based on His foreknowledge of the vessels. It is not His explicit will that any would perish......but in spite of that we know many will.

Those vessels of destruction, in my opinion was his own obstinate nation which he obliterated, by use of the Romans. It was promised in Malachi, and all the Rabbis and teachers knew about these warnings however they replaced the coming messiah with the Law. Worshipping the Law, rather than homage to the Lord Yeshua, who was God with them, by and through the flesh within Him, being the Word of God.

One of my go to parables to see this is the Parable of the Wicked tenants…. The Pharisees answered and said The land owner will come killl those who ended up killing the son of God… pretty much.

40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

 

[Lizbeth]

In Revelation 21 you skipped over.

There is a resurrection that is better than the normal according to Paul, in Ephesians, and the writer of Hebrews mentions it as well.

The Lake of fire which people take part of is in front of the angels and the Lamb, and it’s the fire of Yahavah which believers are instilled with that fire as well - being baptized in Jesus… who baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire according to John.

So… the 12 gates never close or shut the outside out.

Ah, we aren't seeing Rev 21 the same. It is speaking of the nations of those who are saved and who are in the book of life....the gates are kept open because there is no need to shut them against evil and wickedness any more since the evil and wicked are no more.....ie, there is no more darkness and death. The idea being alluded to is how city gates used to be shut at night to keep marauders and invaders out. Rev 21 indicates nothing about the wicked being able to have access after some kind of purging after death. It's just because there will be no need to shut them anymore....since there will be no more "night"...no more darkness/evil, only light....that is the idea being conveyed with that.

The better resurrection spoken of in scripture concerns believers, not unbelievers, and it is about receiving a better reward once one has been resurrected (in the first resurrection)....it is not referring to a third resurrection at all.

 

[MatthewG]

Those vessels of destruction, in my opinion was his own obstinate nation which he obliterated, by use of the Romans. It was promised in Malachi, and all the Rabbis and teachers knew about these warnings however they replaced the coming messiah with the Law. Worshipping the Law, rather than homage to the Lord Yeshua, who was God with them, by and through the flesh within Him, being the Word of God.

One of my go to parables to see this is the Parable of the Wicked tenants…. The Pharisees answered and said The land owner will come killl those who ended up killing the son of God… pretty much.

40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

Becoming wretched is a very wicked existence. Enough for wrath to amount on top of it, and all God has is a cup which is eventually poured out, upon the nation of Israel back in when Jesus foretold of the future events they would suffer.

 

[Lizbeth]

Those vessels of destruction, in my opinion was his own obstinate nation which he obliterated, by use of the Romans. It was promised in Malachi, and all the Rabbis and teachers knew about these warnings however they replaced the coming messiah with the Law. Worshipping the Law, rather than homage to the Lord Yeshua, who was God with them, by and through the flesh within Him, being the Word of God.

One of my go to parables to see this is the Parable of the Wicked tenants…. The Pharisees answered and said The land owner will come killl those who ended up killing the son of God… pretty much.

40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

Yes I think He was alluding to Israel...but not only Israel, because as a principle it applies to everyone. Pharaoh wasn't a Jew.

 

[MatthewG]

Ah, we aren't seeing Rev 21 the same. It is speaking of the nations of those who are saved and who are in the book of life....the gates are kept open because there is no need to shut them against evil and wickedness any more since the evil and wicked are no more.....ie, there is no more darkness and death. The idea being alluded to is how city gates used to be shut at night to keep marauders and invaders out. Rev 21 indicates nothing about the wicked being able to have access after some kind of purging after death. It's just because there will be no need to shut them anymore....since there will be no more "night"...no more darkness/evil, only light....that is the idea being conveyed with that.

What’s your over all belief concerning the topic? While yes there is no mention of anyone outside the kingdom, returning or going into it, Revelation 21, 22 go hand in hand together as what is new now today. It’s hard to separate the two, thus bringing forth a hopeful chance - even if you say no. Would Yahavah if they decided to go through the fire from the outside to the inside?

Who can say? No man on earth has heard or seen what God has in store for those who love him.

The better resurrection spoken of in scripture concerns believers, not unbelievers, and it is about receiving a better reward once one has been resurrected (in the first resurrection)....it is not referring to a third resurrection at all.

Did you look it up in the Greek? Ephesians, when Paul wrote explaining he was hoping to obtain something he had not, in order to obtain resurrection from the dead.

The word used there is exanatasis: which is outer resurrection and supposedly a better one. Don’t believe me? Why was the writer of Hebrews mentioning it?

Hebrews 11:35
Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes I think He was alluding to Israel...but not only Israel, because as a principle it applies to everyone. Pharaoh wasn't a Jew.

Do the promises of God concerning Israel involve the Gentiles when it comes to their own law? There are blessing and curses given to the nation materially, just as the plagues when fell upon them in the early Ads. Cause it seems you continue to mention as though the time of Gentiles are not fulfilled. I would disagree.

 

[MatthewG]

@Lizbeth what is the principles you are talking about? Is God making people vessels of wrath today through the Gentiles now?

 

[St. SteVen]

Well then, consider whether this is simply a question of mortality or immortality for mankind. I just do not see any third option:

That was a short break.
What became of this?

I'm going to give it a rest for now.

????

/

 

[Lizbeth]

That was a short break.
What became of this?

????

/

lol. I kind of got a second wind, just to handle some brief points from Matthew. Running out of steam again now though.

 

[Bill Judson]

Is this a response to the topic title only?
Or did you actually read the OP? (opening post)

This so called bibliolatry stuff is an attack on what the Lord says, which is a tactic satan used in the Garden of Eden to get Adan and Eve to doubt what the Lord says.

It may have been something started by the baloney brothers but the devil is the source because it's another trick to get people to question and turn away from the Word of the Lord.

There's a lot of attacks like this against God's Word in the end times as satan increases deception to cause more and more people to fall away from the Lord.

 

[St. SteVen]

This so called bibliolatry stuff is an attack on what the Lord says...

Questions:
- Can you have a relationship with God without the Bible?
- How many of those listed in the Hebrews 11 Faith chapter had a Bible?

/

 

[Bill Judson]

Questions:
- Can you have a relationship with God without the Bible?
- How many of those listed in the Hebrews 11 Faith chapter had a Bible?

No, without the God's written Word we would not know salvation was available much less what Name to call upon for salvation or how to live for the Lord and that we must turn away from our sin and walk in newness of life.

All the people of old had inspired writings of what the Lord had said up until that time.

Now, we have access to all that God wants mankind to thru His written Word. The new testament has more revelation packed in to it than the old testament. Those that don't understand this have fallen prey to satan's tricks to discount God's Word and have been deceived.

Without God's Word, all one can do is sit around cross legged and hummmmm kumbaya and they think when a thought pops in to their mind it's the Lord speaking to them which results in foolishness such as this bibliolatry stuff started by the baloney brothers