The King James Bible was published in 1611 AD.
What did folks do before that time?
What inspired writings did Abram have? Or Moses? Noah?
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Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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What did folks do before that time?
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Bill Judson
Member
They wrote down what God told them on something and passed it around.
Otherwise they all would have been ignorant of the things God had told them up until that time.
It's silly to question whether the Lord spoke to them and had them write what He told them down so it could be shared with others around them.
Questioning the Lord's faithfulness to provide His Word to His people leads to deception and that does not work out to well.
Bill Judson
Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
This question really puzzles me. I don't think King James managed to get the Bible into the hands of every believer who wanted one.
The Catholic church had the Bible and forbade the common people from having it. But Protestants (before they were called such) had portions of Scripture and smuggled them around from place to place. I remember reading about this in Church history books years ago (Wylie, d'Aubigné, etc.).
Isn't this a little like asking how people managed to eat without electric ranges?
Just asking/saying
.
It was in response to this gem:
"No, without the God's written Word we would not know salvation was available
much less what Name to call upon for salvation or how to live for the Lord and that
we must turn away from our sin and walk in newness of life. "
With the advent of the printing press the general population could finally have access to their own copy of the Bible.
St. SteVen said:
The King James Bible was published in 1611 AD.
What did folks do before that time?
Wikipedia says this:
The English Church initially used the officially sanctioned "Bishops' Bible", which was hardly used by the population. More popular was the named "Geneva Bible", which was created on the basis of the Tyndale translation in Geneva under the direct successor of the reformer John Calvin for his English followers. However, their footnotes represented a Calvinistic Puritanism that was too radical for King James. The translators of the Geneva Bible had translated the word king as tyrant about four hundred times—the word tyrant does not appear once in the KJV. Because of this, it has been assumed King James purposely had the translators of the KJV mistranslate the word "tyrant" as either "troubling", "oppressor", or some other word to avoid people being critical of his monarchy, though there is no evidence to back up that claim.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Well, okay, Pal
, re: the gem and all (my understanding is that the faith of God was of oral tradition mostly before Moses), but I've seen this question from you before and it still doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. .
I think we are in agreement, but you haven't realized it yet.Well, okay, Pal
.
Even in the early church the oral tradition was common.
It was decades after Christ's Accession before they wrote anything down.
And the canon of scripture wasn't finalized until the 4th century.
At the Council of Nicaea. (325 AD)
So, to claim that we can't know God without a Bible in hand is preposterous.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Even in the early church the oral tradition was common.
It was decades after Christ's Accession before they wrote anything down.
And the canon of scripture wasn't finalized until the 4th century.
At the Council of Nicaea. (325 AD)
I don't disagree with any of this enough to argue with a pal about it.
But I'm sure we both see this in terms of both time and space.
(I'm hoping nobody pounces on me because I don't think all the people who were born in the wrong country are doomed.)
From the sound of that last comment, I'm not sure it isn't you who hasn't realized it.
(I think that was a triple negative! I'm not even sure I said what I wanted to say there.
)But, hey, there's agreement, and then there's agreement.
You may be Airborne...
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
So requoting is really cool 'cause ya don't have to say "I agree, but..." (Wait... I just did.)
So, yeah, but having a Bible in hand would seem to render a body a little more accountable for their intents and purposes, wouldn't ya think?
.
Well of course, but...
Both this topic and the discussion I was in was about making the book more important than the author.
For most of human history the common man did not have the book we call the Bible in hand.
This is why the year 1611 AD is a handy reference point. The first publication of the King James Bible.
Something us English speaking westerners can understand. (except for Barney F) - LOL
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Well, I often lose track of which thread I'm in. Sorry
Wait, you're trying to throw me off track. What if a fella had nothing but the the Bible, huh? Hey, and don't tell me it doesn't happen. If I've heard one of those stories I've heard a hundred. Yeah, two can play that game.
I would go so far as to concede that is was a monumentous event, and some other stuff that would just leave you thinking I'm a _____olater.
You better stop implying that I'm a _____olater or I'm gonna tell Mom. She always liked you best, you know.
.
"The King James Version was good enough for Paul and by God it's good enough for me!" I can't remember where I first heard that.
Studies have shown how fantastically accurate oral tradition can be in societies where this is the norm. Scholars have shown that Jesus' method of teaching (parables, etc.) is consistent with how oral tradition works and that the Gospels are clearly an early oral tradition being reduced to writing. Richard Bauckham, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony, has written extensively on this: Amazon.com.
The OT, the scholarly consensus agrees, dates mostly to the 6th century BC and more recent centuries. Not surprisingly, it is after this date that the Bible's history is most accurate. That's a whole lot of human history, even Jewish history, where there was no Bible - not to mention how few people were literate anyway. But surely, for much of that time oral tradition did suffice to make the major points.
I just don't understand the head-in-the-sand sort of believer who thinks it's somehow pleasing to God to ignore the vast - VAST - amount of light that biblical scholarship, archaeology and history have shed on the Bible. Yes, they do expose that it's just a book - an inspired book, we believe, but not some weirdly accurate historical and scientific treatise. It stands with, and to some extent relies upon, the creation myths of other ancient civilizations. Much of it is just Israelite tribal legend. It's quite humorous to me that we laugh at those other ancient myths but tell ourselves (or at least some of us do) that no, the Bible is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!
There was an episode of Star Trek (I think it was) where the crew came upon a dystopian society that had found a copy of the Manhattan (NY) Yellow Pages in the rubble of their ancestors. The worshipped it as The Book, attempting to find deep meaning in ads for plumbers and car dealers. It quite effectively made a point that needs to be made.
Studies have shown how fantastically accurate oral tradition can be in societies where this is the norm. Scholars have shown that Jesus' method of teaching (parables, etc.) is consistent with how oral tradition works and that the Gospels are clearly an early oral tradition being reduced to writing. Richard Bauckham, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses: The Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony, has written extensively on this: Amazon.com.
The OT, the scholarly consensus agrees, dates mostly to the 6th century BC and more recent centuries. Not surprisingly, it is after this date that the Bible's history is most accurate. That's a whole lot of human history, even Jewish history, where there was no Bible - not to mention how few people were literate anyway. But surely, for much of that time oral tradition did suffice to make the major points.
I just don't understand the head-in-the-sand sort of believer who thinks it's somehow pleasing to God to ignore the vast - VAST - amount of light that biblical scholarship, archaeology and history have shed on the Bible. Yes, they do expose that it's just a book - an inspired book, we believe, but not some weirdly accurate historical and scientific treatise. It stands with, and to some extent relies upon, the creation myths of other ancient civilizations. Much of it is just Israelite tribal legend. It's quite humorous to me that we laugh at those other ancient myths but tell ourselves (or at least some of us do) that no, the Bible is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!
There was an episode of Star Trek (I think it was) where the crew came upon a dystopian society that had found a copy of the Manhattan (NY) Yellow Pages in the rubble of their ancestors. The worshipped it as The Book, attempting to find deep meaning in ads for plumbers and car dealers. It quite effectively made a point that needs to be made.
I can empathize. No worries.Well, I often lose track of which thread I'm in. Sorry
Sigh.Wait, you're trying to throw me off track. What if a fella had nothing but the the Bible, huh? Hey, and don't tell me it doesn't happen. If I've heard one of those stories I've heard a hundred. Yeah, two can play that game.
No, no no... ! ! !
That's not what I am talking about at all.
You've heard the stories of missionaries finding remote tribes that said they had a visitation from Jesus, right?
Where is the Bible in that? Did Jesus hand them a Bible? (nope)
That's BIG of you.
Yeah, don't go there.
If you want to be a book lover, join a book club. - LOL
LOL
Brothers from another mother, that's us.
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
I have heard those accounts myself. On videos not irl.
One I heard they showed up to the tribe and after bring welcomed and fed they all sat down to talk the gospel message with them and they asked questions that advanced Christians would ask, and ssemed to agree with them on many things and it seemed somewhat odd to the missionaries. Somebody finally asked them, how do you know these things? And they said from the Teacher who comes here, and then they described a divine being in a purple (?) or blue robe.
Another one I heard the missionaries contacted a tribe and stayed with them for awhile and taught them but then they had to go and so they left some Bibles with them. They promised to come back in a couple years or so but they got delayed on their return somehow and didnt go back for some number of years. But when they did return, after they had a study session with them, the natves invited for them to come to their Services that they hold now (!). They said yes and a group gathered by the sea shore to go to an adjacent Island for it, and they wondered we're waiting for boats then? And when all were assembled, that they just began walking on the water across to the other island!
And the Missionaries all went TILT, lol. You see all they left were Bibles with them, and no built in indoctrination programs with it! So they believed what they read and so it was a common occurance for them to walk on the water!
That was some Testimony!
Indeed.
I wanted to share this song with you.
It was a collaboration with a guy in St. Louis, MO who works a similar job to yours. (appliance repair)
I was working as a delivery driver at the time. The song is a day-in-the-life song. Lyrics below.
What Drives You?
Words by © Steve Lundgren 2021
Music by Dominick B. Giarraputo
Vocals and Slide Guitar by Steve Lundgren
Copyright © 2021
Track Time 4:54 BPM 135/95
VS 1
Coffee in the one hand
keys in the other
Head out on the road
ready for another
Barely get to work
they send you out right away
Looks like it's going to be
one of those days
CHORUS
What Drives You?
What Drives You?
Climb out of bed
and chase your day
What Drives You?
What Drives You?
Feels like you're shot
From a cannon today
VS 2
Get to your first stop
Arrive just in time
Customer is pleased
Who's next in line?
So much to do
Try to catch my breath
Running at this pace
is going to be my death
CHORUS
What Drives You?
What Drives You?
Climb out of bed
and chase your day
What Drives You?
What Drives You?
Feels like you're shot
From a cannon today
BRIDGE
Amid the chaos given
pause by the day
Blue skies and cornfields
along the way
Pass office buildings
with their captives inside
But you're free to run
on this open road ride
VS 3
Day is winding down
just two stops to go
Been a hero all day
and they tell you so
Back at the shop
Got some war stories to tell
Details about your day
From heaven to hell
CHORUS
What Drives You?
What Drives You?
Climb out of bed
and chase your day
What Drives You?
What Drives You?
Feels like you're shot
From a cannon today
Lead Bridge
Repeat CHORUS x2
END
/ cc: @BarneyFife
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
War story, Lol.
So when the first snow flies, everybody runs for their furnaces, and 1/2 of them dont come on for stupid reasons. Many times the customer would unknowingly tell me on the way down the basement stairs what's wrong with it. I fix it fast and am the hero for a moment. That felt good coming from cold people! I suppose I started showing off a little. I get to the house and everyone is wearing coats and gloves and stuff. It was cold in there. On the way down the stairs I asked when was the last time it worked? Oh, Yesterday when Dad changed the filter. It didnt work after that...I know what that means. That means the blower access door (filter access also for many units) did not get snapped down into place properly when he put the door back on. So all I needed to do was to push down on it until it snapped into place and depressed the power safety switch. It occured to me to do a Fonzie moment on it since the whoe family followed me down to the basement. I walk up to the unit and give it my best, Ayyy and I smacked the door down into place like Fonzie would and the burners lit up like magic!
Now the Family started cheering and asked what did I really do? And I told them the door wasnt in place properly...and I see the Dad studying the ground as the family realized it was the Dad's fault...And I just made him look soo stupid in front of his family. And I seen the glance from his wife that said, we paid money for this?! And I felt terrible for what I did. I didnt feel like a hero that time! I didnt do Fonzies any more after that.
Some days your the hero and some days your not!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
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