Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Lizbeth]

Mercy is granted, not taken.

Are we going to waste time splitting hair's.....I'm beginning to suspect you are scrutinizing for any little point to try and make hay out of it just for the sake of discrediting me and winning an argument, not to get at the truth. Won't pretend to be surprised though.

Anything given, must be received, no?.... or it can be rejected. But if someone gives something to someone it is by definition received by the person who is the.....wait for it......RECIPIENT of what is given. I'm not an intellectual but it makes sense to me, lol.

The saints won't be judged? You still need to work on definitions.
What about the wood, hay and stubble?

Judgment and wrath go hand in hand.......to those who will be subject to His wrath.
I don't know about your wood hay and stubble point, I haven't even considered it....can't keep up with everything, I'm not young anymore.

Wrong again. Those who show no mercy, whether believers or not, will receive no mercy.
Better read that verse again. - LOL

The point is that there is such a thing as JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY.......AKA WRATH. Judgment without mercy = wrath.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

Oh my goodness, you need to rightly divide those scriptures. Salvation for all people..........meaning not just for the Jews/Israel, but for all nations of the world of those who would receive it (or be given it if you want to insist, lol). As someone put it so nicely a while back, "all" is often referring to all within a subset. That subset in this case being all who receive Christ and His redemption.

Do I want to play 20 questions? - LOL

So, you believe that spiritual meat is the brutal realities of an angry judgmental God? - LOL
More of your character assassination of God. Do you actually think he appreciates that?

No I do not think He is "judgmental" at all....that is not His attitude, He is far above that. His judgment is simply justice. His ways are not man's ways.....what is depicted as anger/wrath is not emotional, but it is expressing and trying to get across to us humans the extreme and painful nature of the consequences of sin and rejecting the gospel. Justice is part of His character......and we have been duly and fairly warned.

 

[St. SteVen]

What's fascinating is that the "scoffers" of the Last Days are always "people who disagree with ME."

Spot on. - LOL
Typical Bibliolator behavior.
Using the Bible as a weapon AGAINST the Body of Christ.
See Galatians 5:19-21 below. Sobering words.

It's always easy to identify a religious cult.
They attend the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you.

Galatians 5:19-21 NIV
The acts of the flesh are obvious:
sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy,
fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.
I warn you, as I did before, that those who live
like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

What I always want to ask the self-righteous Bibliolatrists is, "Has it ever occurred to you that the false prophets and false teachers of the Last Days might be YOU?" Nah, I didn't think so - but it has certainly occurred to me.

Agree.
That (adhesive-backed) label is always applied to someone else.
Sometimes it should be affixed to the bathroom mirror. (or forehead) - LOL

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Physical death was the death SENTENCE given in the Garden as the ultimate consequence for sin. The verse above proves that is still the truth, no matter how much the nominal teaching is immediate 'spiritual death' is what happened in the Garden.

Makes you wonder why Christians don't live forever physically since Jesus paid or death penalty in full.

Maybe we would if we never sinned again?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Wrath would only be applicable for Israel in the time when Jesus returned -the wrath of God would come upon them - which was the with the use of the Roman army, who laid to waste their world as they knew and burnt down the temple to the ground.

I agree that wrath was to the Jew first in 70 AD, but also the world will be judged. Just as His mercy through the gospel was to the Jew first then the Gentile (world) His wrath is to the Jew first, then the Gentile (world).

Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

(And further to that I am wondering if Israel/Jerusalem will be judged a second time as well, but won't get into those scrips here.)

 

[St. SteVen]

Are we going to waste time splitting hair's.....I'm beginning to suspect you are scrutinizing for any little point to try and make hay out of it just for the sake of discrediting me and winning an argument, not to get at the truth. Won't pretend to be surprised though.

Get at the truth?
Do you mean "your" truth?
Why is your truth superior to my truth?

Just because you disagree with my position doesn't make it false.
Have you changed your position over time?
From false to true?

Maybe we should call this an impasse and just stop debating?
Are we BOTH wasting time here?

/

 

[MatthewG]

I agree that wrath was to the Jew first in 70 AD, but also the world will be judged. Just as His mercy through the gospel was to the Jew first then the Gentile (world) His wrath is to the Jew first, then the Gentile (world).

Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

(And further to that I am wondering if Israel/Jerusalem will be judged a second time as well, but won't get into those scrips here.)

The world in that day would be the surrounding territory. Not the whole world itself. That is my view though an opinion.

 

[Lizbeth]

And the wages of sin being death is still the case for CHRISTIANS to this day. That's why all have PHYSICALLY died and gone to HADES/HELL. This verse is talking to ALL born again believers IMO. Including you, if you are. I don't know. My testimony is in my

1CO 15:55 O death/thantos, where is thy sting? O grave/HADES, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Physical death was the death SENTENCE given in the Garden as the ultimate consequence for sin. The verse above proves that is still the truth, no matter how much the nominal teaching is immediate 'spiritual death' is what happened in the Garden.

It is both physical death and spiritual death that happens to us. Sin SEPARATED us from God and we no longer retained Him in our knowledge. We became dis-connected from God I think we could say and lost awareness of Him. But when we come to faith in Christ, we become reconciled and reconnected to God through Christ as intermediary, and are given revelation/awareness of Him. (That is my testimony and I believe of all who are born again.) As well as receiving the promise and hope of eternal life......we will be given a glorified body when this one dies. Soul and body are one, without a body the soul is not really alive...so believers who inherit eternal life will be given an immortal body for our soul to live on and continue dwelling and living in.

Anyway I'm getting weary of this conversation too, so don't think I'll get to the rest of your post. I dont think this is complicated....it's either eternal life or no eternal life. Which is what it means to perish. And what perdition means...destruction. We know that some will perish....so what do you believe that means?

 

[Spyder]

What would it be like in here if we spent less time telling people they are wrong based on the doctrines we have been fed and more time asking questions about a person's understanding?

A closed mind gathers no knowledge.

If we ever want to know what doctrines cannot stand on two legs, find out which ones cannot be discussed.

 

[MatthewG]

It is both physical death and spiritual death that happens to us. Sin SEPARATED us from God and we no longer retained Him in our knowledge. We became dis-connected from God I think we could say and lost awareness of Him. But when we come to faith in Christ, we become reconciled and reconnected to God through Christ as intermediary, and are given revelation/awareness of Him. (That is my testimony and I believe of all who are born again.) As well as receiving the promise and hope of eternal life......we will be given a glorified body when this one dies. Soul and body are one, without a body the soul is not really alive...so believers who inherit eternal life will be given an immortal body for our soul to live on and continue dwelling and living in.

Anyway I'm getting weary of this conversation too, so don't think I'll get to the rest of your post. I dont think this is complicated....it's either eternal life or no eternal life. Which is what it means to perish. And what perdition means...destruction. We know that some will perish....so what do you believe that means?

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Lizbeth]

The world in that day would be the surrounding territory. Not the whole world itself. That is my view though an opinion.

ok, then maybe the double judgment of Mystery Babylon means a second judgment for the world as well as Israel......only now it is a bigger and wider world. I think that is possible...something to consider, just off the top of my head. I will keep it in mind going forward and try to see if it fits, thanks.

 

[Lizbeth]

Get at the truth?
Do you mean "your" truth?
Why is your truth superior to my truth?

Just because you disagree with my position doesn't make it false.
Have you changed your position over time?
From false to true?

Maybe we should call this an impasse and just stop debating?
Are we BOTH wasting time here?

/

I'm going to give it a rest for now. Just will say.........I've already seen how there are scrips you are not rightly dividing.

 

[St. SteVen]

A closed mind gathers no knowledge.

I think I want that written on a couch pillow. - LOL


--- A closed mind gathers no knowledge. ---


/

 

[Behold]

So, which is it? The wise and learned know the parables but God hides the truth from them,

Its not that God hides His revelation from deeply deceive carnal people who enjoy trying to cast doubt on the Bible...

But rather, God knows that the heart of such a person is dark and led of the devil, and so, they are not able to receive anything from God, .... tho they pretend this is not the case.

You know what i mean @St. SteVen , as you always get the message.

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm going to give it a rest for now. Just will say.........

Sounds good.

I've already seen how there are scrips you are not rightly dividing.

Couldn't resist a final dig, could you?
That was a cheap shot. (sigh)

/

 

[MatthewG]

ok, then maybe the double judgment of Mystery Babylon means a second judgment for the world as well as Israel......only now it is a bigger and wider world. I think that is possible...something to consider, just off the top of my head. I will keep it in mind going forward and try to see if it fits, thanks.

For me, I just believe people die and they are judged on merit of what they chose to do with their life.

All are going to resurrected. There are some said to outside the kingdom and some inside. I believe the great white throne judgement and all those of that age are no longer something we personally have to deal with. I do believe there are people who have a portion of the lake of fire but come out of it, perhaps a seeker in the afterlife that decides to turn from darkness? Don’t know. Just speculation… I do not believe Yahavah is angry with anyone today because the cup of his wrath was poured out. Once that was done that was it. I believe it pertains to those then in that age.


That is why I believe how I shared in the first sentence.

 

[MatthewG]

I think I want that written on a couch pillow. - LOL


--- A closed mind gathers no knowledge. ---


/

To acquire wisdom is to love yourself; people who cherish understanding will prosper.

 

[Hillsage]

Makes you wonder why Christians don't live forever physically since Jesus paid or death penalty in full.

Maybe we would if we never sinned again?

/

That's my contention. Accept Jesus and ALL sins totally forgiven FOREVER. And you have a clean slate But, the first time you do sin you now fall back under the TEMPORAL consequence for sin, which is 'ultimately' physical death. You are still under the ETERNAL forgiveness of the cross. So Jesus doesn't have to get crucified again. That was a ONE and DONE forever payment.

I don't think that if you sin after first being saved, that many believe you have to get 'born again'...again. But I do know they believe you need to make another trip down to the altar in some churches. Not because The Holy Spirit of God died and you're spiritually dead again. But because The Holy Spirit leaks out. OK there's some theology with a hole...for that leak...IMO.

 

[Ritajanice]

Anything given, must be received, no?.... or it can be rejected

If it’s Gods will that we are to receive, then we will, I don’t believe we can reject the will of God...he is the one who works in our hearts to receive, he also opens our heart to receive...no one imo can thwart the will of God, I think that is also Biblical.

Nothing can stop Gods will from being done..I think it can be hindered, but, it can never be thwarted..imo.

 

[Hillsage]

It is both physical death and spiritual death that happens to us. Sin SEPARATED us from God and we no longer retained Him in our knowledge. We became dis-connected from God I think we could say and lost awareness of Him. But when we come to faith in Christ, we become reconciled and reconnected to God through Christ as intermediary, and are given revelation/awareness of Him. (That is my testimony and I believe of all who are born again.) As well as receiving the promise and hope of eternal life......we will be given a glorified body when this one dies. Soul and body are one, without a body the soul is not really alive...so believers who inherit eternal life will be given an immortal body for our soul to live on and continue dwelling and living in.

Anyway I'm getting weary of this conversation too, so don't think I'll get to the rest of your post. I dont think this is complicated....it's either eternal life or no eternal life. Which is what it means to perish. And what perdition means...destruction. We know that some will perish....so what do you believe that means?

Your opinion. My opinion disagrees.

My security;
ROM 8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

HEB 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

If I'm still convicted of sin by the holy spirit of Christ in me, then I am not SEPARATED.

Thanks for keeping it short.

 

[MatthewG]

That's my contention. Accept Jesus and ALL sins totally forgiven FOREVER. And you have a clean slate But, the first time you do sin you now fall back under the TEMPORAL consequence for sin, which is 'ultimately' physical death. You are still under the ETERNAL forgiveness of the cross. So Jesus doesn't have to get crucified again. That was a ONE and DONE forever payment.

I don't think that if you sin after first being saved many believe you have to get 'born again'...again. But I do know they believe you need to make another trip down to the altar in some churches. Not because The Holy Spirit of God died and you're spiritually dead again. But because The Holy Spirit leaks out. OK there's some theology with a hole...for that leak...IMO.

With the payment of sin. Everyone was wiped clean. Salvation is given to all as they say, some don’t take it. It doesn’t mean it still is not given. My take away is that because of Jesus; he overcame death, sin, Satan, hell. That means all will continue to raise and be judged however there are differing glories of bodies like that stars, in the sky at night.

Some bright some not so bright some very very faint and some you need a telescope to see.

I believe in three resurrections not just two. I believe everyone will be given a spiritual body, given by God which is good cause he only gives good gifts and allows people to live on the outside of the gates.