Biggest mistake of the church and we need to go back

[Robert Gwin]

I am reaching, because the Bible is not so explicit about what Satan is or is not aware of. I think he is on a need to know basis. He is not omniscient, omnipresent or omnipotent. He was given certain abilities and power but the blueprints of God's plan of salvation for man? Doubt it.Why? Because of his temptations,and actions towards Jesus and His mission - he actually contributed to the death and resurrection unbeknownst to him. God has been using him all along to. God js in,co,trip of evil and allkws it for a purpose - that's not reaching.

The advantage satan has over us is that he and his demons are invisible, and therefore are able to observe us when we know of no one being around. It is very true that God uses satan's tools to His advantage. For example, you likely know that the assignment of Christians is to carry the good news to the ends of the earth Acts 1:8; Mat 24:14, but sometimes we have to be persuaded, like Jonah for instance, in 1951 Jehovah had many of us exiled to Siberia from the Soviet Union, lo and behold the good news reached there.

A Biblical account of God using satans tools is when Cyrus liberated us from Babylon, to return us to the homeland to restore pure worship there.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The advantage satan has over us is that he and his demons are invisible, and therefore are able to observe us when we know of no one being around. It is very true that God uses satan's tools to His advantage. For example, you likely know that the assignment of Christians is to carry the good news to the ends of the earth Acts 1:8; Mat 24:14, but sometimes we have to be persuaded, like Jonah for instance, in 1951 Jehovah had many of us exiled to Siberia from the Soviet Union, lo and behold the good news reached there.

A Biblical account of God using satans tools is when Cyrus liberated us from Babylon, to return us to the homeland to restore pure worship there.

Except that by denying the physical resurrection of Jesus in teh same body He died in- the Watchtower did not spread the good news in siberia, but preached another gospel . that is a sad and tragic truth.

 

[Robert Gwin]

then sir you are a liar!

I asked you evidence for the manipulation and you refused. Why??
If you look at Acts 28:6 You will see the translators of your version did not capitalize god. They knew how to translate it correctly, yet for some reason they were inconsistent in doing so. There is the evidence.
Jesus is not His Father But He is equally divine as His Father He is God the Son. This refers to His nature or essence. He is subserivent to His Father in position and exaltation, but equal to His Father in nature. Jesus is not referred to as God the Son in the Bible, rather the Son of God. Jesus is not equal to Jehovah, rather he holds the #2 position, which is what sitting at the Fathers right hand means.

No it is Charles Taze Russell, Judge Rutherford, Joseph Franz and the governing bodies that are liars. They have deceived you and millions of others with their very sophisticated lies and half truths.
I fail to see what this has to do with Jesus being God sir.

If you studied original languages side by side with English, you will find it is the Watchtower bible and Tract Society that has deliberately with malice aforethought manipulated and twisted Scriptures. they are not ewntering the kingdom and they are keeping millions from entering in as well.

I can clearly see you have little respect for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, so why did you bring them into the conversation? The Bible is God's word, and that is what we are discussing, correct?

 

[amadeus]

The advantage satan has over us is that he and his demons are invisible, and therefore are able to observe us when we know of no one being around. ...

Invisible? What is it that according to Jesus some are able to see? Is it not the carnal eyes of men that are unable to see? Whose eyes and ears are blessed and able to see? What?

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:13-16

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If Jesus isn’t divine - if the son of God is not God the Son - then Yahweh erred by commanding the angels to worship Jesus, and the risen Jesus sinned by letting Thomas and the other apostles worship Him:

Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mat 28:10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

If Jesus knew that He wasn’t divinity he should have reacted like Peter did when they worshipped him:

Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man

So you decide: is Jesus a sinner for letting himself be worshipped?

Did Yahweh err by breaking a His own command to worship God only?

Or is the Sin of God also God the Son?

Horses beget horses - not hamsters.

Dogs beget dogs, not cats.

Like begets like.

Any begotten Son of God, will be, by definition, God the Son.

Now you know why they sought to stone Jesus for saying He’s the son of God - He asked them what reason they wanted to stone Him for - they answered, for claiming to be God.

They knew what being Gods son means.

I like that, how You inverted the Son of God as God the Son. It is so simple yet somebthingsbare just thay way. I also like to use that argument that human begets human, animals beget animals and God begets God. Some thay we are all sins of God or would imply angels are sins of God..we are adopted, not begotten. Angels were created. There is only one begotten Son. And this of course does mot mean Jesus spirit was created. It means His human nature was born/begotten, not His divinity that pre-existed with the Father before time.
The idea that angels and humans worship Jesus disqualifies Him from being an angel. When man would attempt this at any time, the angel would say, "No don't do that, get up..."

 

[Robert Gwin]

Except that by denying the physical resurrection of Jesus in teh same body He died in- the Watchtower did not spread the good news in siberia, but preached another gospel . that is a sad and tragic truth.

Jesus was raised a spirit Ron 1 Cor 15:44-50; 1 Pet 3:18. He gave his flesh and blood in sacrifice for our sins Luke 22:19,20; he did not take it back. What close friend would forget what you looked like in less than a week? Not one of his closest associates recognized him physically when he was with them. No he simply materialized other bodies as all angels who have came to humans have.

Of course one has to know what the good news is in order to preach it, what is the message sir?

 

[Wrangler]

I like that, how You inverted the Son of God as God the Son.

An incorrect inversion. Acts says God selected Jesus, making him, like us, adopted children.


He has fixed a day of accountability, when the whole world will be justly evaluated by a new, higher standard: not by a statue, but by a living man. God selected this man and made Him credible to all by raising Him from the dead.
Acts 17:31

 

[Robert Gwin]

Invisible? What is it that according to Jesus some are able to see? Is it not the carnal eyes of men that are unable to see? Whose eyes and ears are blessed and able to see? What?

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:13-16

I was somewhat puzzled by your post Amadeus, as I was talking literally. What you posted is a totally different usage of sight, that is referring to understanding, and hearing with understanding, in other words having the desire for the message and getting and practicing the point of it.

I believe you see the difference in the usages, correct?

 

[amadeus]

I was somewhat puzzled by your post Amadeus, as I was talking literally. What you posted is a totally different usage of sight, that is referring to understanding, and hearing with understanding, in other words having the desire for the message and getting and practicing the point of it.

I believe you see the difference in the usages, correct?

Yes, I understand the differences, but my point I guess was that even though our natural eyes may not see or perceive a devil, if we are walking close to the Lord, the devil has no advantage over us.

His advantage is understood as we see Peter walking on the water without trouble while he keeps his eyes on Jesus. When he looks down and around at the boisterous sea, he sees danger and begins to sink. There was no reason for him to sink as there is not any good reason for any man to fall away from God, but they do it all of the time. Keep our eyes always on the Lord trusting in our God always and the devil will never have an advantage.

The good thing for Peter was that even though he began to sink, he did not forget that Jesus was still right there. Sinking, he called out, "Lord save me". Likewise our help is always there for us in even the worst of times...

Give God the glory!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus was raised a spirit Ron 1 Cor 15:44-50; 1 Pet 3:18. He gave his flesh and blood in sacrifice for our sins Luke 22:19,20; he did not take it back. What close friend would forget what you looked like in less than a week? Not one of his closest associates recognized him physically when he was with them. No he simply materialized other bodies as all angels who have came to humans have.

Of course one has to know what the good news is in order to preach it, what is the message sir?

Wrong. It is the blood that He gave for the forgiveness of sins!

Here are the 20 Things the Blood of Christ Does

• It remits sins (Matt. 26:28 NKJV).
• It gives life to those who consume it (John 6:53).
• It causes us to dwell in Christ and Him in us (John 6:56).
• It is the means by which Jesus purchased the church (Acts 20:28).
• It is the means by which Jesus becomes our atonement through faith (Rom. 3:25).
• It justifies us and saves us from God’s wrath (Rom. 5:9).
• It redeems us (Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:18–19; Rev. 5:9).
• It brings those who were far away from God near to Him (Eph. 2:13).
• It grants us the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:14).
• It brings peace and reconciliation with God (Col. 1:20).
• It has “obtained eternal redemption” for us (Heb. 9:12).
• It cleanses our consciences from “dead works” to serve the living God (Heb. 9:14).
• It is the means by which we enter the Most Holy Place with boldness (Heb. 10:19 NIV).
• It “speaks a better word than the blood of Abel” (Heb. 12:24 NIV).
• It sanctifies us (Heb. 13:12).
• It makes us complete for “every good work” (Heb. 13:20–21 NKJV).
• It “cleanses us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).
• It bears witness in the earth along with the Spirit and the water (1 John 5:8 KJV).
• It is the means by which Jesus washes us (Rev. 1:5; 7:14 KJV).
• It is the means by which we overcome the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10–11).

Thank God for the “precious blood” of Christ (1 Pet. 1:19), the “sprinkled blood” of Christ (Heb. 12:24), the blood of “the new covenant” (Luke 22:20), the “blood of the eternal covenant” shed for us (Heb. 13:20).

“The life … is in the blood” (Lev. 17:11).

By listening to the Watchtower you reject Scripture.

Resurrection in the language is "ana-stasia" a standing again! In order to stand again one has to be laid down.

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


This is not HARD TO UNDERSTAND! Jesus spoke of the temple of HIs Body and when He stood up again the disciples remembered and believed! What part of this do you not understand?

As for people not recognizing HIm. Mary at teh tomb did not expect Him to be alive so she did not recognize him at first assuming he was the gardener.

The disciples on the road to Emmaus WERE KEPT from recognizing HIm. Listen to Scrfipture instead of a man made organization.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

An incorrect inversion. Acts says God selected Jesus, making him, like us, adopted children.


He has fixed a day of accountability, when the whole world will be justly evaluated by a new, higher standard: not by a statue, but by a living man. God selected this man and made Him credible to all by raising Him from the dead.
Acts 17:31

God became a man, emptied Himself into a human vessel and dwelt among us.
(Philippians 2:5-8)? “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (comprehended) but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

>>>And still to this day folks like you still don't grasp it.
He is the God/man, is deserving of our love and worship and He is in full authority in heaven and on earth. Now how could the Father turn that over to a mere man? He pre-existed with the Father before the beginning of time. He is the CREATOR of ALL THINGS VISIBLE, AND INVISIBLE . Col. 1:16, 17 states that - unless your Bible distorts it.
>>>All authority requires omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresense.<<<
That is a defining characteristic of God. Creator and having all authority everywhere means He is the ALL MIGHTY GOD.
So He relinquished His glory while on earth, to fulfill His mission and when He completed it, the Father returned it to Him. He had to become a man, like us, so that He could be a physical sacrifice, the greatest act of love AND he had to becoming High Priest as well to offer the sacrifice, human blood needed to be shed to remove sins.

God was inaccessible in the Old Testament tibthe common man, He was separate from Him. At best He communicated with the prophets and dwelled behind a veil in the Temple. Now He dwells in us, we are in Christ and He is in us. No need for a prophet to give us a message. He gives it to each and everyone of us, guides and teaches us directly. He is accessible.
This is also another reason why He became a man, so that we could experience Him face to face. He could teach us, show us the way in an up close and personal way, demonstrate His love and power. Christ changed the world and opened up a doorway to eternal salvation - He did.

Jesus raised Himself. Scripture also states the Father and the Holy Spirit raised Him. There you go, 3
John 10:18, “No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

You are still rebellious towards Christ - whether you realize it or not. You do not worship Him, because you do not think He is God. Your position is one that degrades and dishonors Who Christ is. If you dishonor the Son, you dishonor the Father - see how that works? There is equal honor and worship that the Son is given and worthy of. In addition to that, you are not baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. This is also a dishonor to the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, another Helper Whom the Father sends to live in us.
Because you are in denial of the Holy Spirit as being God as well, why would you ask for the Holy Spirit if you don't think He is God either? This a conundrum that you have created for yourself, bordering on blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Hence, you have not been baptized by the Holy Spirit, which is why you cannot discern scripture. Check yourself. Christians are in CHRIST and He is in us. Do you have Jesus in you, when you claim Jesus just a man? Why would the spirit of a mere man live in you and why would you think you needed Him?
What a disgrace to think Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God, a distinct person from the Father, Whom He sent to Help you and live in you.

 

[Wrangler]

God became a man, emptied Himself into a human vessel and dwelt among us.
(Philippians 2:5-8)? “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (comprehended) but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Unbelievable! Anything that is merely in the form of a thing is not that thing. Jesus is not God.

While I might not consider it robbery to be equal to you, I would not consider equality with myself. Jesus is not God.

God did not become man - ever. Scripture tells us no one has seen God. Men are seen. God put his words into men for millennia. That does not make any of them God.

 

[Wrangler]

He pre-existed with the Father before the beginning of time.

He’s the firstborn of all creation. A creature, like all of God’s children.

 

[Wrangler]

All authority

Given to Jesus. Who gave Jesus all authority? God, in his unitarian nature.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus raised Himself.

No. God raised Jesus.

It’s so funny how you avoid the incorrect inversion and the one Scripture I cited by attempting to cover up with all these other points - that also show Jesus was not God. ROFLMAO.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus was raised a spirit Ron 1 Cor 15:44-50; 1 Pet 3:18. He gave his flesh and blood in sacrifice for our sins Luke 22:19,20; he did not take it back. What close friend would forget what you looked like in less than a week? Not one of his closest associates recognized him physically when he was with them. No he simply materialized other bodies as all angels who have came to humans have.

Of course one has to know what the good news is in order to preach it, what is the message sir?

1. Jesus isn’t a liar, and He said, a spirit has not flesh and bone, as you SEE I have, then ate some fish to prove it.

2. Jesus said, tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up AGAIN, and scripture says He spoke of the temple HIS BODY.

3. Jesus is seen by every eye at His return, not just by Christians, Revelation 1:7

4. If Jesus’ sacrifice of His flesh and blood for us meant He’d disappear and become the invisible man, His body would have become invisible or disappeared on the cross, and they wouldn’t have had a body to put in a tomb.

5. The fact He rose a spirit, doesn’t mean He’s ONLY A SPIRIT and no longer has a spirit, soul AND BODY just like WE have:

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

6. Jesus looked different after His resurrection, because of the beating He took, that marred His face beyond recognition Isaiah 52:14 - and since His body retained the scars from the nails in His hands and feet, His face would look also different due to that beating - just as His hands and side looked different because they had the scars from the nails and spear.

7. The fact that they saw Him but didn’t recognize Him, is fatal to the WTS invisible man doctrine, because THEY SAW HIM.

8. The WTS invented the invisible man claim, to cover up that the date they’d set for Jesus’ return was wrong - for the third time - so they saved face by claiming that He DID RETURN just as they predicted, but He’s invisible now.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus is not God

I interpret and discern scriptures differently and disagree. There is no need to get into an endless, futile debate.
If that is what you have concluded, then hold onto to it and see if that produces fruit in your life.

 

[Wrangler]

I interpret and discern scriptures differently and disagree. There is no need to get into an endless, futile debate.
If that is what you have concluded, then hold onto to it and see if that produces fruit in your life.

Thank you. Indeed it has. 1 = 1. 3 = 3. I am saved by the Son who is Lord but not the Father who is LORD God.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, I understand the differences, but my point I guess was that even though our natural eyes may not see or perceive a devil, if we are walking close to the Lord, the devil has no advantage over us.

His advantage is understood as we see Peter walking on the water without trouble while he keeps his eyes on Jesus. When he looks down and around at the boisterous sea, he sees danger and begins to sink. There was no reason for him to sink as there is not any good reason for any man to fall away from God, but they do it all of the time. Keep our eyes always on the Lord trusting in our God always and the devil will never have an advantage.

The good thing for Peter was that even though he began to sink, he did not forget that Jesus was still right there. Sinking, he called out, "Lord save me". Likewise our help is always there for us in even the worst of times...

Give God the glory!

I fully agree sir, keep focused and the devil has no power over us. Peter's faith waned just a little, a lesson for us to keep in mind.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Wrong. It is the blood that He gave for the forgiveness of sins!

Here are the 20 Things the Blood of Christ Does

• It remits sins (Matt. 26:28 NKJV).
• It gives life to those who consume it (John 6:53).
• It causes us to dwell in Christ and Him in us (John 6:56).
• It is the means by which Jesus purchased the church (Acts 20:28).
• It is the means by which Jesus becomes our atonement through faith (Rom. 3:25).
• It justifies us and saves us from God’s wrath (Rom. 5:9).
• It redeems us (Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:18–19; Rev. 5:9).
• It brings those who were far away from God near to Him (Eph. 2:13).
• It grants us the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:14).
• It brings peace and reconciliation with God (Col. 1:20).
• It has “obtained eternal redemption” for us (Heb. 9:12).
• It cleanses our consciences from “dead works” to serve the living God (Heb. 9:14).
• It is the means by which we enter the Most Holy Place with boldness (Heb. 10:19 NIV).
• It “speaks a better word than the blood of Abel” (Heb. 12:24 NIV).
• It sanctifies us (Heb. 13:12).
• It makes us complete for “every good work” (Heb. 13:20–21 NKJV).
• It “cleanses us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).
• It bears witness in the earth along with the Spirit and the water (1 John 5:8 KJV).
• It is the means by which Jesus washes us (Rev. 1:5; 7:14 KJV).
• It is the means by which we overcome the accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10–11).

Thank God for the “precious blood” of Christ (1 Pet. 1:19), the “sprinkled blood” of Christ (Heb. 12:24), the blood of “the new covenant” (Luke 22:20), the “blood of the eternal covenant” shed for us (Heb. 13:20).

“The life … is in the blood” (Lev. 17:11).

By listening to the Watchtower you reject Scripture.

Resurrection in the language is "ana-stasia" a standing again! In order to stand again one has to be laid down.

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


This is not HARD TO UNDERSTAND! Jesus spoke of the temple of HIs Body and when He stood up again the disciples remembered and believed! What part of this do you not understand?

As for people not recognizing HIm. Mary at teh tomb did not expect Him to be alive so she did not recognize him at first assuming he was the gardener.

The disciples on the road to Emmaus WERE KEPT from recognizing HIm. Listen to Scrfipture instead of a man made organization.

Why did Jesus give his body Ron?