Biggest mistake of the church and we need to go back

[NayborBear]

Grapes are not wine but may become wine. Jesus and teh Father are one! Jesus said if you saw Him you saw the Father! I believe that!

It is good you believe that!
Yet, as I stated? There's a Huge, and in too many cases a deluded difference from seeing the Father that is in Christ, and going unto the Father that sent Christ, via the government (of the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Light) that Christ bares, or holds up on His shoulders.

I also understand that some have been given more measure of faith then others.
My biggest complaint, is when those who have been given little, stand, block, chastise, admonish, etc. etc....IOW? Do not, or will not acknowledge their limitations, and then teach others to not even expect, nor accept, "a/the" fuller measure that the Father in Heaven has given them. (see how apostasy perpetuates?)
Which in my case, as I'm sure in the case of others?
Causes people to do less, as those who have not a fuller measure, and of whom less is expected, because?
Because, traditions and precepts of men, have these people walking around questioning that which the Father has given them.
Never knowing if believing is a blessing, or a curse!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Be glad to discuss what you disagree with Ron. That is the way I came into the truth. What is something you disagree with from our teachings, and I will give you the Scriptural reason behind why we practice it.

Lets start with the most critical. the physical resurrection of jesus.

You can go first with your biblical defense why you accept Watchtower teaching that Jesus did not rise physically from the grave.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yet, as I stated? There's a Huge, and in too many cases a deluded difference from seeing the Father that is in Christ, and going unto the Father that sent Christ, via the government (of the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Light) that Christ bares, or holds up on His shoulders.

And I agree 100% with this.

I also understand that some have been given more measure of faith then others.
My biggest complaint, is when those who have been given little, stand, block, chastise, admonish, etc. etc....IOW? Do not, or will not acknowledge their limitations, and then teach others to not even expect, nor accept, "a/the" fuller measure that the Father in Heaven has given them. (see how apostasy perpetuates?)
Which in my case, as I'm sure in the case of others?
Causes people to do less, as those who have not a fuller measure, and of whom less is expected, because?
Because, traditions and precepts of men, have these people walking around questioning that which the Father has given them.
Never knowing if believing is a blessing, or a curse!

So as I do not misunderstand you; by this statement are you saying you have been given a greater measure of faith than I have?
Or you implying that my acceptance of the deity of Christ is a limitation and an apostate teaching?

I want to be sure I do not misunderstand what you are saying here.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yet there is still only one scripturally identified faith that belongs to God.

The letters to the seven churches of Revelation 2 and 3 shows a prophetic history of the church. Even by the end of the first century there were Christians that were losing their first love. But there were still some that were willing to die rather than give up their faith. We are in the last church age and there has been quite a falling away from holiness in the church. Jesus is right around the corner. I would say the seven year tribulation could be next year if Revelation 8 comes to pass according to NASA in 2029. I think it will, what with all the devilish politically correct secular beliefs that are even infiltrating the church.

I'm interested in knowing what you mean by the portion of your post you posted. Do you believe the hype that the RCC is the only Church of Christ? There are people in every denomination who belong to the Lord, and others that do not. Same goes for the RCC. Read the letter to Thyatira in Rev. 2 and heed the warnings about "Jezebel" that is still a major part of the RCC and Orthodox denominations.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Lets start with the most critical. the physical resurrection of jesus.

You can go first with your biblical defense why you accept Watchtower teaching that Jesus did not rise physically from the grave.

Jesus gave his flesh and blood in our behalf Ron Luke 22:19,20. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the heavenly Kingdom of God in which Jesus went back to. 1 Cor 15:50 All heavenly beings are spirit beings sir. If Jesus was resurrected in his body, the sacrifice was taken back, therefore no redemption, no sacrifice. The Bible states openly that Jesus was raised a spirit 1 Pet 3:18; 1 Cor 15:45. Jesus did appear bodily many times after his death and prior to his ascension, but was never recognized by his intimate friends. Angels who appeared to humans took on fleshly bodies as well. Gen 19:1,4,5

Hope that helps sir

 

[Robert Gwin]

The letters to the seven churches of Revelation 2 and 3 shows a prophetic history of the church. Even by the end of the first century there were Christians that were losing their first love. But there were still some that were willing to die rather than give up their faith. We are in the last church age and there has been quite a falling away from holiness in the church. Jesus is right around the corner. I would say the seven year tribulation could be next year if Revelation 8 comes to pass according to NASA in 2029. I think it will, what with all the devilish politically correct secular beliefs that are even infiltrating the church.

I'm interested in knowing what you mean by the portion of your post you posted. Do you believe the hype that the RCC is the only Church of Christ? There are people in every denomination who belong to the Lord, and others that do not. Same goes for the RCC. Read the letter to Thyatira in Rev. 2 and heed the warnings about "Jezebel" that is still a major part of the RCC and Orthodox denominations.

Does the RCC meet these scriptural identifiers maam?:

1. The one faith would worship the God Jehovah exclusively. (Matthew 4:10) Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you must render sacred service.’” (It was written at Deut 6:13).

2. The one faith will not participate in war. Paul stated: (2 Corinthians 10:3) . . .For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. . .

3. The one faith approaches Jehovah through Jesus, Paul said:
(1 Timothy 2:5) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. . .Jesus said: (John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. . .

4. Jesus said the one faith would be known by the love of its adherents:
(John 13:34, 35) . . .I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. . .
It’s adherents would imitate Jesus,
Peter said: (1 Peter 2:21) . . .to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. . .

5. The one faith will preach the good news of the Kingdom of God, as mankind’s only hope, not a worldly government, Jesus stated:
(John 18:36) . . .“My Kingdom is no part of this world. . . .
He told us to: (Matthew 6:33) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.
Jesus stated the main reason he came to earth: (Luke 4:43) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”
He assigned his followers to: (Matthew 28:19) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,. . ., 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.

6. The one faith accepts the Bible as the inspired message of God, Paul said:
(2 Timothy 3:16) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God. . .

7. The one faith would appear to be formed in the last days, it’s adherents would be highly educated through instruction, and would live the teachings in their lives: Isaiah wrote: (Isaiah 2:2, 3) . . .In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established . . .And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.

8. The one faith would not set men on high, with religious titles, Jesus said: (Matthew 23:8-10) 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

9. The one faith does not allow unrepentant sinners to remain among them,
Paul stated: (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) . . .I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . .“Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

10. The one faith does not practice interfaith with other “Christian” faiths. All teach the same thing, and have the same line of thought: (2 Cor 6:14) For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?
(Phil 2:2) make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
Jesus said: (John 17:20) . . .“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word. . .in order that they may be one just as we are one.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Does the RCC meet these scriptural identifiers maam?:

1. The one faith would worship the God Jehovah exclusively. (Matthew 4:10) Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you must render sacred service.’” (It was written at Deut 6:13).

2. The one faith will not participate in war. Paul stated: (2 Corinthians 10:3) . . .For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. . .

3. The one faith approaches Jehovah through Jesus, Paul said:
(1 Timothy 2:5) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. . .Jesus said: (John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. . .

4. Jesus said the one faith would be known by the love of its adherents:
(John 13:34, 35) . . .I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. . .
It’s adherents would imitate Jesus,
Peter said: (1 Peter 2:21) . . .to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. . .

5. The one faith will preach the good news of the Kingdom of God, as mankind’s only hope, not a worldly government, Jesus stated:
(John 18:36) . . .“My Kingdom is no part of this world. . . .
He told us to: (Matthew 6:33) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.
Jesus stated the main reason he came to earth: (Luke 4:43) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”
He assigned his followers to: (Matthew 28:19) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,. . ., 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.

6. The one faith accepts the Bible as the inspired message of God, Paul said:
(2 Timothy 3:16) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God. . .

7. The one faith would appear to be formed in the last days, it’s adherents would be highly educated through instruction, and would live the teachings in their lives: Isaiah wrote: (Isaiah 2:2, 3) . . .In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established . . .And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.

8. The one faith would not set men on high, with religious titles, Jesus said: (Matthew 23:8-10) 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

9. The one faith does not allow unrepentant sinners to remain among them,
Paul stated: (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) . . .I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . .“Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

10. The one faith does not practice interfaith with other “Christian” faiths. All teach the same thing, and have the same line of thought: (2 Cor 6:14) For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?
(Phil 2:2) make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
Jesus said: (John 17:20) . . .“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word. . .in order that they may be one just as we are one.

You would have to ask them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus gave his flesh and blood in our behalf Ron Luke 22:19,20. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the heavenly Kingdom of God in which Jesus went back to. 1 Cor 15:50 All heavenly beings are spirit beings sir. If Jesus was resurrected in his body, the sacrifice was taken back, therefore no redemption, no sacrifice. The Bible states openly that Jesus was raised a spirit 1 Pet 3:18; 1 Cor 15:45. Jesus did appear bodily many times after his death and prior to his ascension, but was never recognized by his intimate friends. Angels who appeared to humans took on fleshly bodies as well. Gen 19:1,4,5

Hope that helps sir

Well where in Scripture does it say that if Jesus rose physically from the dead He would have taken the sacrifice back, especially in light of the near 20 verses I showed you from Gods Word that it was the blood of Jesus that was given for the sacrifice of sins-sir.

I disagree with your interpretatin of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Cor. 15 says nothing about what Jesus was resurrected as but simply says that He was made a quickening spirit!

But what od you say to the fact that resurrection is the word-"ana-stasis" Which means a standing again. In order for something to stand again, it has to either lay down or sit down and as this is the word the greeks used for a resurrection from the dead, it means that teh body that was laid down in death stood again! As the Scriptures show:

Acts 2:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Also what do you make of John 2:

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I believe in the physical resurrection, for that is what Scriptures say with commentary, or allegorical reinterpretations.

 

[Robert Gwin]

You would have to ask them.

Since the Bible does identify the faith maam, and those few verses I gave you identify it beyond a reasonable doubt, is there a faith that you know of that meets those qualifiers?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well where in Scripture does it say that if Jesus rose physically from the dead He would have taken the sacrifice back, especially in light of the near 20 verses I showed you from Gods Word that it was the blood of Jesus that was given for the sacrifice of sins-sir.

I disagree with your interpretatin of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Cor. 15 says nothing about what Jesus was resurrected as but simply says that He was made a quickening spirit!

But what od you say to the fact that resurrection is the word-"ana-stasis" Which means a standing again. In order for something to stand again, it has to either lay down or sit down and as this is the word the greeks used for a resurrection from the dead, it means that teh body that was laid down in death stood again! As the Scriptures show:

Acts 2:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Also what do you make of John 2:

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I believe in the physical resurrection, for that is what Scriptures say with commentary, or allegorical reinterpretations.

If you give something, it is not yours to take back. Jesus' flesh and blood was sacrificed. I guess this ends our reasoning on this subject.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you give something, it is not yours to take back. Jesus' flesh and blood was sacrificed. I guess this ends our reasoning on this subject.

then explain John 2 as I asked and why the Apostles under the inspiration of God used the word that can only mean that what died rose again. Stop giving me reasoning but5 answer the Scriptures!

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


this contradicts your line yo0u have often refused but failed to provide one passage from
Gods Word to support your hypothesis.

 

[Enoch111]

If Jesus was resurrected in his body, the sacrifice was taken back, therefore no redemption, no sacrifice.

That is a ludicrous statement. Did Christ have a resurrection body -- a special body free of earthly limitations? Of course He did. So you are denying what the Bible affirms.
JOHN 20: CHRIST AFTER HIS RESURRECTION IN A REAL BODY
14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[Robert Gwin]

then explain John 2 as I asked and why the Apostles under the inspiration of God used the word that can only mean that what died rose again. Stop giving me reasoning but5 answer the Scriptures!

John 2:18-22
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


this contradicts your line yo0u have often refused but failed to provide one passage from
Gods Word to support your hypothesis.

Yet I just did in the very last post that you are commenting on now. We disagree Ron. I say he was resurrected a spirit, you say body. Only one of us is correct sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

That is a ludicrous statement. Did Christ have a resurrection body -- a special body free of earthly limitations? Of course He did. So you are denying what the Bible affirms.
JOHN 20: CHRIST AFTER HIS RESURRECTION IN A REAL BODY
14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

We do not teach that Jesus was bodily resurrected sir, the Bible states he was raised a spirit. Thomas was an apostle, and as you see by the account he did not recognize Jesus physically, in fact no one did, ever! Like many angels who came to earth they materialized bodies as Jesus obviously did, and most likely in different bodies each time, as he was never recognized physically. If you do not accept this actual fact, we have came to an impasse. We do teach that he appeared physically after his resurrection as well as spiritually when he went through locked doors. But we also teach is was not in his pre-death body which was sacrificed in our behalf.

 

[Enoch111]

We do not teach that Jesus was bodily resurrected sir, the Bible states he was raised a spirit.

Yes. The Bible calls Christ "a quickening spirit" but that should not be taken out of context to contradict His bodily resurrection.

So what was Paul teaching in 1Co 15:45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The contrast is between the first man -- who did not have the power to grant eternal life to anyone -- and Christ (the last Adam) who is Himself Eternal Life. To quicken is to give life, and those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive eternal life. But that does not cancel His bodily resurrection which is clearly shown in the Bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yet I just did in the very last post that you are commenting on now. We disagree Ron. I say he was resurrected a spirit, you say body. Only one of us is correct sir.

No you gave a philosophical answer that is not found in scripture. why did Jesus say if the Pharisees destroyed His body, in three day He would raise it up again? Jesus specifically said He would raise His body up and when He was stood up again (resurrected) His disciples believed this passage.

So why do you not believe Jesus meant His body (not spirit) when He said this and what biblical proof do you give.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes. The Bible calls Christ "a quickening spirit" but that should not be taken out of context to contradict His bodily resurrection.

So what was Paul teaching in 1Co 15:45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The contrast is between the first man -- who did not have the power to grant eternal life to anyone -- and Christ (the last Adam) who is Himself Eternal Life. To quicken is to give life, and those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive eternal life. But that does not cancel His bodily resurrection which is clearly shown in the Bible.

Make sure you understand what is being said. compare versions, and research the original words Enoch. It is an important point.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No you gave a philosophical answer that is not found in scripture. why did Jesus say if the Pharisees destroyed His body, in three day He would raise it up again? Jesus specifically said He would raise His body up and when He was stood up again (resurrected) His disciples believed this passage.

So why do you not believe Jesus meant His body (not spirit) when He said this and what biblical proof do you give.

If you disagreed with the verses I gave you sir, we have came to our conclusion. You say his body, we say his life. I have adequately given my reasons for believing he was raised back to his former state. He was not a physical being in heaven prior to becoming a human, nor did he return to heaven as a human, rather back to his original form in which all those who reside in heaven, a spirit being.

 

[Davy]

Hebrews 6:1 NKJV
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God

John 8:31 NKJV
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

Yep! That speaks volumes!

Burn those Quarterlies, and get back to preaching The Word of God line upon line, and chapter by chapter!

If I were a Sunday school teacher, I'd try to require everyone to bring a notebook and pencil and make notes for future reference study. And for the more serious Bible students, I would show how to use Bible study software like from BibleSoft (I'm not getting any commission for saying that).

However, the reality is, that Satan and his servants in this world infiltrate all things to try and get them away from their intended purpose, especially in the pulpits. Those men who have formed religious denominations that follow a system of controls are not going to allow The Word of God full strength line upon line to be taught in their Churches. And to make sure their preachers tow the line, they may threaten to take away their retirement pensions. Would any of Christ's early disciples made themselves subject to that? No. But it's not going to end until Lord Jesus returns, and the main purpose of all Churches in Christ is still mainly to preach The Gospel to those who haven't yet heard.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you disagreed with the verses I gave you sir, we have came to our conclusion. You say his body, we say his life. I have adequately given my reasons for believing he was raised back to his former state. He was not a physical being in heaven prior to becoming a human, nor did he return to heaven as a human, rather back to his original form in which all those who reside in heaven, a spirit being.

Why are you afraid of answerring my question? You have rigidly avoisding answering whatr is said in Gods Word:

John 2:18-23
King James Version

18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

If you were any kind of biblical student you would know that life in the original inspired languages is:

zōē ζάω (G2198)
Greek Inflections of ζωή ζωὴ — 20x
ζωή — 4x
ζωῇ — 4x
ζωὴν — 53x
ζωήν — 7x
ζωῆς — 46x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: xxvii. ζωή, βίος.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 134x
The KJV translates Strong's G2222 in the following manner: life (133x), lifetime (1x)

And body is:

sōma σῴζω (G4982)
Greek Inflections of σῶμα [?]
mGNT
142x in 8 unique form(s) TR
146x in 8 unique form(s) LXX
75x in 9 unique form(s)
σῶμά — 14x
σῶμα — 60x
σώματα — 10x
σώματί — 2x
σώματι — 23x
σώματός — 4x
σώματος — 32x
σωμάτων — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: body (144x), bodily (1x), slave (1x).

and the two would never be mixed up like the watchtower has intentioanally done to their damnation and for those who believe that lie!

And the Scriptures completely disagree with teh Watchtower reinterpretation of what Jesus is in heaven. They add their own thoughts and opinions and make them Scripture. Jesus rose as the firstfruits of the resurrection a glorfied God/man in a body that is now immortal, incorruptible and glorified. That is the Scripture, not whatr that man made organization has taught you.