Binding And Loosing: A Proper Understanding

[Gary Urban]

And when we have faith, we're binding and loosing. Thanks so tremendously @Hidden In Him

Or we could say when we have the faith of Christ as a labor of his love it works in us to both loose or reveal from heaven and empower us bound in our eathen new hearts. We have the treasure of his faithfulnes in these earthen bodies but never asume He is served by courrupted human hands as a will .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Gary Urban]

The following is a teaching I was inspired by @thelord's_pearl to give because she was interested in the subject. I will tag a few others I think might be interested.

Sounds to me she was more interested in violating the warning not to add or subtract from all things written in the law and the prophets(the perfect) The last new revealtion was to John in the last book Revelation .Those who seek after lying signs to wonder after never to coming to the end of faith that avenue will remain open until the last day under the Sun .

We are warned to not follow rules as oral traditon that people dream up .

Colossians 2:18 Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels. They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We agree with God by the voice of God and not the oral traditions or private interpretation of men as personal commentaries.

I would think we enter in the Spirit of Christ by walking with Christ as two walking together. Assembling oneself together does not mean we have entered. When two or three a family, two or three tribe, or two or three nation gather together under all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptural) he is there working in them to both will and do His good pleasure. Two or three families or nations does not increase His presence.

When the Jewish atheist elders gathered themselves together in 1 Samuel 8 they had no belief in an unseen God or what God calls fools. They had become jealous of the surrounding pagan nation who foundation as in “out of sight out of mind” .They refused to walk by faith by serving God not seen therefore defining the abomination of desolation “kings in Israel” a hierarchy of men government . making the King of kings desolate

1 Samauel 8: 7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

During the first century reformation the order of the government of God, walk by faith was restored back to the period of Judges fulfiling the promise of Joel a kingdom of priests’ men and women holding out the gospel of peace as prophets sent as apostles.

No outward representation of men under a law of the father lording it over the faith or understanding of non-venerable show watchers.

If more than one family, tribe or nation would gather together and apply the loosing and binding law like with church discipline they represent that which was loosed from heaven God does the actual work if any.

They themselves did not provide forgiveness as if God was served by the corrupted human hands as a will. They are ceremonies as shadows that point to the one source of faith as it is written.

It is the reason that Catholicism has set up an order teaching men they have the power to forgive sin turning the binding and loosening doctrine upside down as if inspired from Rome earthy.And is why they try and add more and more with secret mystical books like the Apocrypha to add sola scriptura making it to no effect.

The whole Vatican library is assumed as divinely inspired to give the illusion God is still adding to his two witnesses the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)

This is even knowing we have the complete or perfect with no laws missing by which we could know our living God more intimately .They simply make the Bible without effect so that they can keep “I heard it through the grape vine” as oral traditions of men. In that way when we try the spirits to see if they are of men inspired from earth or of God inspired from heaven .Any person that says thus says the lord, I had a vision or a dream we are to believe not .In that way no man can serve two teaching masters as our Lord not seen .

Gary, I don't mean to offend you by saying this, but the above post contains so many theological oddities in it that I would literally be breaking a command of God if I were to continue holding a conversation with you over it (2 Timothy 2:14). The one thing I might advise is that you reserve debating against Catholicism where Catholicism is actually being discussed, and/or where Catholics are actually present.

God bless,
- H

 

[marks]

We agree with God by the voice of God and not the oral traditions or private interpretation of men as personal commentaries.

Amen!

I would think we enter in the Spirit of Christ by walking with Christ as two walking together.

I can only guess at what someone means when they say, "enter the Spirit of God". That's not Biblical language, and it doesn't really like up with the fact that the Holy Spirit lives in us. How do we enter the Spirit that is in us?

Unless this refers to a perceptual state when we feel like we have a greater sensation of the Holy Spirit. But I myself think of that more as believing more the teaching of the Bible.

I find that we are already united to God, but we have a tendency to not really think that way. An inspirational song, meditation on a passage, some closely knit prayers, and we can become more believing in His Word, that we are with Him, He with us.

Two or three families or nations does not increase His presence.

Again, amen!

God doesn't change. We're the one's who change. It's not like He's "more here", I think the reality is that we become more believing that He is here.

Much love!

 

[Mayflower]

It is probably in your posts somewhere, but I was kind skimming for the answer to the meaning of "what will be bound on earth will be bound in heaven, what will be loosed on earth, will be loosed in Heaven." I am not sure what that means. I'll have to get caught up and see your thoughts on that part. I just see Heaven as fulfillment, no tears, etc. So am curious about that part.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I can only guess at what someone means when they say, "enter the Spirit of God". That's not Biblical language, and it doesn't really like up with the fact that the Holy Spirit lives in us. How do we enter the Spirit that is in us?

Unless this refers to a perceptual state when we feel like we have a greater sensation of the Holy Spirit. But I myself think of that more as believing more the teaching of the Bible.

Good morning, Mark.

No, it is not a perceptual state, it is more like a tangible one. The exact expression "enter into the Spirit" is more of a modern term born out of Pentecostal experience, but there are references to it in scripture. For instance, in 1 Corinthians 5:5 Paul said the following:

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This is a reference to the same thing. Once people are caught up in the power and presence of God, the Spirit Himself will begin to speak in Divine utterance. The same thing was true at Pentecost:

2 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2)

This is understood as taking place in the context of prayer, because it was the third hour of the day (an hour of prayer in Jewish custom during New Testament times. Acts 2:15).

 

[marks]

Or we could say when we have the faith of Christ as a labor of his love it works in us to both loose or reveal from heaven and empower us bound in our eathen new hearts. We have the treasure of his faithfulnes in these earthen bodies but never asume He is served by courrupted human hands as a will .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

To me it's a matter of who you see being in the driver's seat.

Much love!

 

[marks]

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I'm curious . . . do you think Paul was there in some "out of body" way?

Serious question.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

It is probably in your posts somewhere, but I was kind skimming for the answer to the meaning of "what will be bound on earth will be bound in heaven, what will be loosed on earth, will be loosed in Heaven." I am not sure what that means. I'll have to get caught up and see your thoughts on that part.

Good morning, sister!

If you read through the OP again, it had to do first and foremost with either including or excluding others from the congregation of God, and I included specific instances where this often had to do with if they were retaining demons or being released from them, based on the decisions of their own hearts. Hence, if such people were bound by the apostles on earth by the spoken word, they and the demons within them would be bound by the angels of God in the heavens in consequence. And if they were loosed by the apostles of God on earth by the spoken word, then they would be loosed from those demons by the angels of God in the heavens, and allowed entrance into the church.

In other words, in keeping with the authority given them by Christ, the angels of God backed up whatever the apostles declared. Posts #2 and #3 then relate this principle to speaking directly to demonic powers in the heavens. It's a little complex to explain, LoL, so I understand the confusion.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm curious . . . do you think Paul was there in some "out of body" way?

Serious question.

Much love!

I think that as an apostle of God who was often hindered by Satan from actually traveling to congregations to examine their spiritual state in person (1 Thessalonians 2:17-18), God gave him the gift of being able to see what was happening in congregations supernaturally, through the eyes of the Spirit as it were. This is referred to elsewhere in Colossians 2:5.

 

[marks]

I think that as an apostle of God who was often hindered by Satan from actually traveling to congregations to examine their spiritual state in person (1 Thessalonians 2:17-18), God gave him the gift of being able to see what was happening in congregations supernaturally, through the eyes of the Spirit as it were. This is referred to elsewhere in Colossians 2:5.

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The verse says he's there, doesn't it? Not just remove viewing, but astral presence. Right?

If we're going to read this a certain way, shouldn't we be consistent?

This part, "with the power of the Lord Jesus Christ", to you, this refers to something not normally present with a believer, but only in one of these style meetings? Is that the idea?

Much love!

 

[Gary Urban]

Gary, I don't mean to offend you by saying this, but the above post contains so many theological oddities in it that I would literally be breaking a command of God if I were to continue holding a conversation with you over it (2 Timothy 2:14). The one thing I might advise is that you reserve debating against Catholicism where Catholicism is actually being discussed, and/or where Catholics are actually present.

God bless,
- H

Sorry if I offended you my hope is to offer a different view point from another perspective. . . ( Urban alterative LOL)

I am hoping His words will profit.Not subverting of the hearers

Catholicism is not the only denomination that the teaching applies to. They just do it openly proudly. Many other serve a hierarchy of men that follow another written book as a law that they use to make sola scriptural without effect. Seeing no man can serve two teaching master a one lord our God we must be carefull how we hear or say we do. .

Do you think Kings in Israel is the abomination of desolation and was reformed during the first century reformation? The time of great tribulation one like never before or ever again?

And the two or three a family that gather together under the authority of all thing written in the law and the prophets can be consider a nation or a tribe.

Abram meaning exalted father of one coming from two nations the Amorites and the Hittites became one new nation under Abraham, meaning the father of a multitude of nations . . all the nations of families of the world from where we get the word denominations

 

[Hidden In Him]

The verse says he's there, doesn't it? Not just remove viewing, but astral presence. Right?

I get the willies at reading the words "astral presence" in this context. That's too much occult terminology for me to accept in applying it to scripture. But Paul appears to have been there "in Spirit." I think it means God allowed him to see what was happening in the congregation, so he was essentially "there" observing what was happening, just like it says he was "observing their order" in Colossians 2:5.

 

[marks]

I get the willies at reading the words "astral presence" in this context. That's too much occult terminology for me to accept in applying it to scripture. But Paul appears to have been there "in Spirit." I think it means God allowed him to see what was happening in the congregation, so he was essentially "there" observing what was happening, just like it says he was "observing their order" in Colossians 2:5.

When we talk about stuff like this, there isn't a lot of vocabulary available. I wasn't crazy about writing "remote viewing" either. But we're not talking about the demonic, we're talking about God, so I'm just using the words to make the distinction.

I'm just trying to clarify, since it seems you see the "power of Jesus Christ" as some thing that was there for the occasion. Paul is refered to just the same, so I was interested if you were going to be consistent.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

This part, "with the power of the Lord Jesus Christ", to you, this refers to something not normally present with a believer, but only in one of these style meetings? Is that the idea?

Somewhat, yes. The term is used, "when you are gathered together." I believe very strongly from personal experience, early church references, and the above scriptures themselves that there is a distinct power to be found in CORPORATE prayer which can be found no other way.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When we talk about stuff like this, there isn't a lot of vocabulary available. I wasn't crazy about writing "remote viewing" either. But we're not talking about the demonic, we're talking about God, so I'm just using the words to make the distinction.

Yes, "remote viewing" is associated with occultism as well, so while the same principles might apply and there be a type of spiritual parallel involved, one experience is coming through demonic enablement and the other through the Spirit of God.

It's similar to exorcism. Witches can "exorcise" demons, but it is often just a sham "expelling" of the demon. It's still there, but goes undercover if you will to make the exorcism seem real. In Christian exorcism, the demon actually gets cast out (if it is genuine exorcism anyway).

 

[marks]

Somewhat, yes. The term is used, "when you are gathered together." I believe very strongly from personal experience, early church references, and the above scriptures themselves that there is a distinct power to be found in CORPORATE prayer which can be found no other way.

But Paul's presence not the same thing?

I've felt power in corporate prayer. Feelings aren't the same thing as Biblical doctrine. The feeling may indicate a more heightened trust in God. In fact, that's exactly what I think is happening. Those feelings can happen in other situations also, where the power of God also seems "tangible".

Binding and loosing, it's about application of Law and doctrine. There's a clear pattern through Scripture. But it's not as glamorous as taking power over the unseen forces in the air.

If we were binding and loosing according to our own desire, why then is not more accomplished? When then is it not more plainly taught? Why do we not see the practice of it in Scripture?

Examples given may look to one as a binding or loosing, but the words aren't used, and in other places, they are, but in reference to the application of Law and doctrine. Bound, you were on the hook to do it. Loosed, you were not.

@Mayflower

Romans 7:1-3 KJV
1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

This is binding and loosing.

"having been bound in heaven", God's assurance that they will be accurate. Or, power over the fallen angels, and the demons, and people. There are certainly different views on this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, "remote viewing" is associated with occultism as well, so while the same principles might apply and there be a type of spiritual parallel involved, one experience is coming through demonic enablement and the other through the Spirit of God.

It's similar to exorcism. Witches can "exorcise" demons, but it is often just a sham "expelling" of the demon. It's still there, but goes undercover if you will to make the exorcism seem real. In Christian exorcism, the demon actually gets cast out (if it is genuine exorcism anyway).

I'm just trying to identify which specifically you think was happening.

In this case it sounds that you are interpreting the passage to mean that when the church was together, with Paul, and with Jesus' Power, actually, Jesus' power was there, but Paul wasn't really, more seeing as in a vision?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've felt power in corporate prayer. Feelings aren't the same thing as Biblical doctrine. The feeling may indicate a more heightened trust in God. In fact, that's exactly what I think is happening. Those feelings can happen in other situations also, where the power of God also seems "tangible".

Nah, not for me. I used the words "more like tangible presence" because that's literally true on occasion. I have felt the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit on numerous occasions ever since I was first baptized in the Holy Spirit... but as far as the "feeling" goes, it's a bit hard to put into words... you just KNOW the Spirit God is present. It is solemn. As I've shared before, I have been in services where the Presence fell so strongly that not a soul said a word for the better part of 10-15 minutes, and that was in a congregation of over 60-75 people as I recall.

If we were binding and loosing according to our own desire, why then is not more accomplished?

Well I agree. That is my point in Posts #2 and #3.

Examples given may look to one as a binding or loosing, but the words aren't used, and in other places, they are, but in reference to the application of Law and doctrine.

More than merely law and doctrine. My position is laid out in the first three posts.

I'm just trying to identify which specifically you think was happening.

In this case it sounds that you are interpreting the passage to mean that when the church was together, with Paul, and with Jesus' Power, actually, Jesus' power was there, but Paul wasn't really, more seeing as in a vision?

Correct. Paul's spirit was with them in that he was seeing the thing take place in Spirit, so it is as though his spirit was indeed there. But in reality he was only viewing it. The power of the Lord Jesus Christ was indeed there, however, and this was the power and authority behind which the words to excommunicate the man were being spoken. Someone within the congregation spoke by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself through the Spirit, and informed the man that he was being handed over to the enemy for the destruction of the flesh, until such time as he should repent of his sins.

 

[marks]

I used the words "more like tangible presence" because that's literally true on occasion.

So what I'm saying . . .

OK, I'll put it like this. Is God any closer or farther from you now then other times? Do you only feel Him like that in those times? Never, say, when you are alone?

Much love!