'Blood of Jesus'

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lforrest

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i see it too, and can only say that i suspect a symbolic meaning now.
My study has suggested to me more than once that Pilate may have even been trying to save Jesus by "scourging" him, if the scourging was literal;
12From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free
Yes, the Jews wanted Jesus dead but Pilate feared the dream from his wife. In the end he caved and handed Jesus over to be crucified.

The roman solders mocked Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews when they placed the crown of thorns on his head. But Pilate also mocked the Jews, by acknowledging Jesus as the King of the Jews.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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In other words - you are dancing around the issue.
NONE of what you just posted answers the question I asked of you.

I asked you WHAT are the "stripes" Isaiah spoke of.
I didn't ask you what they did for us.

Please be consistent. First you asked me, '~What are "stripes" on a body that has been scourged with a Roman flagrum??~'
Then you ask me, '~WHAT are the "stripes" Isaiah spoke of.~'

Well, Isaiah did not speak of '~"stripes" on a body that has been scourged with a Roman flagrum~', most definitely, not!
 

BreadOfLife

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Please be consistent. First you asked me, '~What are "stripes" on a body that has been scourged with a Roman flagrum??~'
Then you ask me, '~WHAT are the "stripes" Isaiah spoke of.~'

Well, Isaiah did not speak of '~"stripes" on a body that has been scourged with a Roman flagrum~', most definitely, not!
Isaiah prophesied the wounding of Jesus.
Isaiah 50:6 explicitly states:
I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

In a final blow to your argument, Isaiah 53:5 goes on to say:
“But he was WOUNDED for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”

Merriam Webster's Collegiate Cictionary defines a "wound" as:
wound1
wo͞ond/

noun
  1. 1.
    an injury to living tissue caused by a cut, blow, or other impact, typically one in which the skin is cut or broken.
    synonyms: injury, lesion, cut, gash, laceration, tear, slash;
What do you think they scourged Him with - a wet noodle??
Sorry, pal - you LOSE this one . . .
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Isaiah prophesied the wounding of Jesus.
Isaiah 50:6 explicitly states:
I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

In a final blow to your argument, Isaiah 53:5 goes on to say:
“But he was WOUNDED for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”

Who disagreed or argued against what Isaiah 53 and in fact all the Bible goes on to to this day, say?

Isaiah 50:6 explicitly states, "I offered my back to those who beat Me, my cheeks to those who pulled my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting. So if they could "not keep on looking onto Moses' face for the glory of the Law, "which glory was to be DONE AWAY", why would they beat Jesus' back, pull his beard and spit in his face and mock Him OTHER THAN FOR FRUSTRATION THEY WERE POWERLESS TO DO AWAY WITH "THE GLORY OF GOD IN THE FACE OF JESUS"! Or is the Scriptures lying that state, "HIS FLESH SAW NO CORRUPTION!"?

"The reward of OUR sin is / was / meant and means, HIS death."
Isaiah 53:5,
“He was wounded for / by reason of our transgressions, He was bruised for / by reason of our iniquities": "our transgressions and our iniquities" were the '~Roman flagrum~'; "our transgressions and our iniquities" were / are "the chastisement upon him, of / for / unto our peace"; and "our transgressions and our iniquities" are / were "his stripes by (which) we are healed”, He, having been KILLED by and for our sins "so that we, may live" by and for His Righteousness! Therefore was Jesus "made SIN FOR US" and our sins made the '~Roman flagrum~'.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Merriam Webster's Collegiate Cictionary defines a "wound" as:
wound1
wo͞ond/

noun
  1. 1.
    an injury to living tissue caused by a cut, blow, or other impact, typically one in which the skin is cut or broken.
    synonyms: injury, lesion, cut, gash, laceration, tear, slash;
What do you think they scourged Him with - a wet noodle??
Sorry, pal - you LOSE this one . . .

I gladly loose this one from non-Scripture secular dictionaries.
 

BreadOfLife

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Who disagreed or argued against what Isaiah 53 and in fact all the Bible goes on to to this day, say?

Isaiah 50:6 explicitly states, "I offered my back to those who beat Me, my cheeks to those who pulled my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting. So if they could "not keep on looking onto Moses' face for the glory of the Law, "which glory was to be DONE AWAY", why would they beat Jesus' back, pull his beard and spit in his face and mock Him OTHER THAN FOR FRUSTRATION THEY WERE POWERLESS TO DO AWAY WITH "THE GLORY OF GOD IN THE FACE OF JESUS"! Or is the Scriptures lying that state, "HIS FLESH SAW NO CORRUPTION!"?

"The reward of OUR sin is / was / meant and means, HIS death."
Isaiah 53:5,
“He was wounded for / by reason of our transgressions, He was bruised for / by reason of our iniquities": "our transgressions and our iniquities" were the '~Roman flagrum~'; "our transgressions and our iniquities" were / are "the chastisement upon him, of / for / unto our peace"; and "our transgressions and our iniquities" are / were "his stripes by (which) we are healed”, He, having been KILLED by and for our sins "so that we, may live" by and for His Righteousness! Therefore was Jesus "made SIN FOR US" and our sins made the '~Roman flagrum~'.
Nice dodge - but NONE of this refutes the fact that he was WOUNDED and BLED like a normal human being. The Bible tells us that He was like us in ALL things but SIN.

Try whipping yourself with a flagrum or try driving a nail through your hand and see if YOU don't bleed. While you're at it - stab yourself in the heart. I'll bet you my HOUSE that you will bleed . . .
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Nice dodge - but NONE of this refutes the fact that he was WOUNDED and BLED like a normal human being. The Bible tells us that He was like us in ALL things but SIN.

Nice self-contradictory statement! '~The Bible tells us that He was like us in ALL things but SIN.~' Death is the reward of sin; so is the blood the payment for sin -- of the sinner. But the Bible tells us that He was UNLIKE us in ALL things in that He was GOD conceived by the Holy Spirit "in the flesh" and born of a virgin "in the flesh", sinless, and at the very end, "TRIUMPHED ... in the flesh" preserved "in the flesh" sinless, having suffered "in the flesh" dying the death of death "in the flesh", and in The very New Beginning "in the flesh CAME" from the dead, from death and from the grave, the God-made New Creation "in the flesh" RAISED UP AND EXALTED, glorious and triumphant "in the flesh": "This Same Jesus Whom ye crucified, GOD-RAISED LORD AND CHRIST ... his flesh having seen no corruption" the corruption of "DEATH the reward for sin"-- "for our sin" in our flesh.

That was HOW VERY DIFFERENT Jesus was from us. He had no sin and was, no, '~normal human being~' and therefore suffered nothing of the reward of sin his own because He had no sin his own. And every time is it true, Christ Jesus "in the flesh" had no sin "in the flesh" and suffered nothing "in the flesh" of the reward of sin his own "in the flesh", because "in the flesh" his own, He had no sin his own. It is written God would not "ALLOW HIS ANOINTED" to suffer for sin not his own in his own, sinless, blameless, innocent and RIGHTEOUS, HOLY, FLESH. (Or, God forbid, the Lord God would be unjust and unrighteous!) Acts 4:26-28.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Nice self-contradictory statement! '~The Bible tells us that He was like us in ALL things but SIN.~' Death is the reward of sin; so is the blood the payment for sin -- of the sinner. But the Bible tells us that He was UNLIKE us in ALL things in that He was GOD conceived by the Holy Spirit "in the flesh" and born of a virgin "in the flesh", sinless, and at the very end, "TRIUMPHED ... in the flesh" preserved "in the flesh" sinless, having suffered "in the flesh" dying the death of death "in the flesh", and in The very New Beginning "in the flesh CAME" from the dead, from death and from the grave, the God-made New Creation "in the flesh" RAISED UP AND EXALTED, glorious and triumphant "in the flesh": "This Same Jesus Whom ye crucified, GOD-MADE LORD AND CHRIST ... his flesh having seen no corruption" the corruption of "DEATH the reward for sin"-- "our sin"-- "in the flesh".

That was HOW VERY DIFFERENT Jesus was from us. He had no sin and suffered nothing of the reward of sin his own because He had none. And every time is it true, Christ Jesus "in the flesh" had no sin "in the flesh" and suffered nothing "in the flesh" of the reward of sin his own "in the flesh", because "in the flesh" his own, He had no sin his own. It is written God would not "ALLOW HIS ANOINTED" to suffer for sin not his own in his own, sinless, blameless, innocent and RIGHTEOUS, HOLY, FLESH. (Or, God forbid, the Lord God would be unjust and unrighteous!) Acts 4:26-28.
His flesh did not see decay because he was RESURRECTED before that could happen. His resurrected Body was his GLORIFIED body which was no longer subject to the laws of physics. He could come through walls and locked doors - appear and disappear at will.

NONE of this, however has anything to do with the fact that in his UNGLORIFIED state - he was tortured, bled and was put to death. they couldn't have done that to Him in his glorified state - but they DID do that to Him in His UNGLORIFIED flesh.

Jesus truly bled for us because without blood there is NO forgiveness (Heb. 9:22).
ALL true Christians know this - so go peddle your heresy somewhere else.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Another impotent argument.
"Wound" means the same now as it did in Jesus' time.

...may be... '~in time~' but certainly not 'in Jesus' who neither died nor suffered death at the hand and to the whims of sinful men, but because He had the Power and the Will to, for our sake and for our sin, suffer and die. In other words, Christ physically died "according to the Spirit of Holiness" Romans 1:3,4 the SAME "Spirit in Power" according to which ... yes, according to Whom ... He physically rose from the dead again, "His Holiness". Humans, sinners, mortals, had no power over Jesus not even over his flesh or blood or skin or the palms of his hands and HE DID NOT SUFFER DEATH according to the will and lusts of them, but the Holy Will of God. Not one hair would fall from his head but because it pleased God who willed it and let it fall.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Jesus truly bled for us because without blood there is NO forgiveness (Heb. 9:22).
ALL true Christians know this - so go peddle your heresy somewhere else.
ALL true Christians know "without blood there is NO forgiveness" stands in Hebrews 9:22 OF AND FOR THE BYGONE MOSAIC “MINISTRATION OF DEATH”, NOT of or for the "Ministration of Life" of Jesus Christ.
 

BreadOfLife

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...may be... '~in time~' but certainly not 'in Jesus' who neither died nor suffered death at the hand and to the whims of sinful men, but because He had the Power and the Will to, for our sake and for our sin, suffer and die. In other words, Christ physically died "according to the Spirit of Holiness" Romans 1:3,4 the SAME Spirit of Holiness according to which ... yes, according to Whom ... He physically rose from the dead again. Humans, sinners, mortals, had no power over Jesus not even over his flesh or blood or skin or the palms of his hands and HE DID NOT SUFFER DEATH according to the will and lusts of them, but the Holy Will of God. Not one hair would fall from his head but because it pleased God who willed it and let it fall.
Yes, Jesus willingly went to his death - but it was at the hands of MEN. The Martyrs ALSO willingly went to their deaths at the hands of MEN. Pilate DID have power over His flesh - and Jesus even told him that he did:
John 19:11
Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

Anyway - NONE of that you just said refutes the fact that Jesus bled at the hands of MEN.
Try again . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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ALL true Christians know "without blood there is NO forgiveness" stands in Hebrews 9:22 OF AND FOR THE BYGONE MOSAIC “MINISTRATION OF DEATH”, NOT of or for the "Ministration of Life" of Jesus Christ.
Sorry pal - you LOSE again.
Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the Law - but to FULFILL it (Matt. 5:17).

The Mosaic Law was not "bygone" until AFTER Jesus was finished with what He had to do.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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His flesh did not see decay because he was RESURRECTED before that could happen.

"And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead never to have returned to corruption, he said on this wise, I WILL give you the SURE MERCIES of David wherefore He also saith in another Scripture, THOU SHALT NOT suffer Thine HOLY One to see corruption, for David fell on sleep and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption", because '~decay could happen~' and had to happen -- unlike with Jesus, as it is WRITTEN, fast, unmistakable, "BECAUSE decay could NOT and would NOT happen never to have returned to corruption" '~before~', or, after, EVER!

So which are true Christians to believe, RCC tradition or the Word of God the Scriptures? I know which I trust!
 

BreadOfLife

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"And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead never to have returned to corruption, he said on this wise, I WILL give you the SURE MERCIES of David wherefore He also saith in another Scripture, THOU SHALT NOT suffer Thine HOLY One to see corruption, for David fell on sleep and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption", because '~decay could happen~' and had to happen -- unlike with Jesus, as it is WRITTEN, fast, unmistakable, "BECAUSE decay could NOT and would NOT happen never to have returned to corruption" '~before~', or, after, EVER!

So which are true Christians to believe, RCC tradition or the Word of God the Scriptures? I know which I trust!
WRONG.
If Jesus didn't rise from the dead - then He would have eventually decayed because it would have meant that He wasn't God.

And AGAIN - none of this refutes the fact that He bled, now does it??
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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His resurrected Body was his GLORIFIED body which was no longer subject to the laws of physics.
His resurrected Body was his from conception and birth GLORIFIED body which was never '~subject to the laws of physics~" but to the Laws of God, "I delight o God in The Law." "My delight is to do Thy Will."

βασιλεύς εἰμι (ἐγὼ).
I AM King.
ἐγὼ εἰς τοῦτο γεγέννημαι καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον,
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world,
ἵνα μαρτυρήσω τῇ ἀληθείᾳ·
that I should bear witness unto the truth.
πᾶς ὁ ὢν ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας ἀκούει μου τῆς φωνῆς.
Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Πειλᾶτος Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια;
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?

ἐγὼ εἰμι ἡ ἀλήθεια.

"I AM The Truth."
 

BreadOfLife

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His resurrected Body was his from conception and birth GLORIFIED body which was never '~subject to the laws of physics~" but to the Laws of God, "I delight o God in The Law." "My delight is to do Thy Will."
βασιλεύς εἰμι (ἐγὼ).
I AM King.
ἐγὼ εἰς τοῦτο γεγέννημαι καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον,
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world,
ἵνα μαρτυρήσω τῇ ἀληθείᾳ·
that I should bear witness unto the truth.
πᾶς ὁ ὢν ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας ἀκούει μου τῆς φωνῆς.
Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Πειλᾶτος Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια;
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?

ἐγὼ εἰμι ἡ ἀλήθεια.

"I AM The Truth."
Where do you get this anti-Biblical manure??

If His flesh was not subject to the laws of physics - there would have been NO need for Him to eat or drink. He wouldn't have grown from a baby into a man. He wouldn't have had a beard. He wouldn't have been able to be nailed to a cross.

The Son ALWAYS existed - but NOT incarnate. His glorified Body came AFTER His Resurrection.
As a matter of fact - Rev. 13:8 tells us that the Lamb had been SLAIN before the foundations of the world.
 

BreadOfLife

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Like He did before his death and resurrection.
I was unaware that He walked through locked doors and through walls before His Resurrection.
Can you show me where the Bible makes this claim??

Chapter and verse, please . . .
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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NONE of this, however has anything to do with the fact that in his UNGLORIFIED state - he was tortured, bled and was put to death. they couldn't have done that to Him in his glorified state - but they DID do that to Him in His UNGLORIFIED flesh.

So why do you refer to '~this~' if '~NONE of this has anything to do with the fact that ... he was tortured~' etc.? Fact is, the fact that He was tortured, WAS and IS the glory and glorification of Jesus in that though they wanted his blood He did not bleed and in that, though they desired to put Him to death He did not allow them to put Him to death, but Himself gave his life's spirit into his Father's hands, and was glorified therein that the Spirit of God covered Him with the very "Presence of the Almighty" in the most holy place of his sepulchre in view of his final glory and glorification "when God raised Him from the dead by the EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF THE POWER OF HIS MIGHTY STRENGTH AND EXALTED HIM AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND IN HIS HEAVENLY MAJESTY."