Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo,
There's no such thing as works salvation.
I don't know anybody on this forum that believes in works saving them.
God does want us to do good works AFTER we're saved...He certainly doesn't want us to do evil works.

Salvation has always been based on faith. Even in the O.T. -- you know this.
So what I'm saying is that if we have faith.....we're saved.
If we don't have faith.....we're not saved.
If we lose faith..........we're not saved.

You believe if we're saved we will never leave God.
But Paul makes provision for this, which must mean that it CAN happen.
What about Hebrews 6:4-6?
What about 2 Peter 2:20?

Give me time to go into my archives to show you how many times I've answered those verses for you.
If you didn't listen before, why would you listen now?
I'm not too good at repeating myself over and over forever to the same person.

 

[GodsGrace]

Give me time to go into my archives to show you how many times I've answered those verses for you.
If you didn't listen before, why would you listen now?
I'm not too good at repeating myself over and over forever to the same person.

Make believe I'm a different person?
We'll have to agree to eternally disagree!

 

[Stranger]

If anyone wants to believe you can lose your salvation after having come to Christ, fine, go ahead. But don't think you can come back again if you do.

(Heb. 10:10) "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

(Heb. 10:14) "For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified."

You do not continually keep bringing the sacrifice over and over again. That is what the Old Testament saints under the Law did. This sacrifice of Christ is a one time deal. It is either sufficient to save and keep forever the one that comes to Christ, or it is sufficient to save but not to keep the one that comes to Christ.

So if you want to hold to the belief that you can lose your salvation, don't be saying you can always come back and repent. Coming back and repenting is for backsliders, not those who lost their salvation. Which means you cannot lose your salvation. So, be honest in what you believe.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

If anyone wants to believe you can lose your salvation after having come to Christ, fine, go ahead. But don't think you can come back again if you do.

(Heb. 10:10) "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

(Heb. 10:14) "For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified."

You do not continually keep bringing the sacrifice over and over again. That is what the Old Testament saints under the Law did. This sacrifice of Christ is a one time deal. It is either sufficient to save and keep forever the one that comes to Christ, or it is sufficient to save but not to keep the one that comes to Christ.

So if you want to hold to the belief that you can lose your salvation, don't be saying you can always come back and repent. Coming back and repenting is for backsliders, not those who lost their salvation. Which means you cannot lose your salvation. So, be honest in what you believe.

Stranger

Why not?
The Prodigal son came back.
Where does God say I can't come back?
I will say this: If one leaves his faith behind it probably is difficult to come back to God. It seems that those who do leave do not come back.

If we want to say that someone cannot lose their salvation, then we must also say that we can tell if one is saved or not. And how are WE supposed to know?
Are WE God?

I hear that "they were never saved to begin with"...
HOW do we know if a person is saved or not?

 

[Nancy]

Make believe I'm a different person?
We'll have to agree to eternally disagree!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why not?
The Prodigal son came back.
Where does God say I can't come back?
I will say this: If one leaves his faith behind it probably is difficult to come back to God. It seems that those who do leave do not come back.

If we want to say that someone cannot lose their salvation, then we must also say that we can tell if one is saved or not. And how are WE supposed to know?
Are WE God?

I hear that "they were never saved to begin with"...
HOW do we know if a person is saved or not?

Really?
You know that many people who have been born again who left God and never came back?
You're not getting those numbers mixed up with the slew of catholics in Italy who have quit the church, are you?
That would be a thread by itself.

 

[GodsGrace]

Really?
You know that many people who have been born again who left God and never came back?
You're not getting those numbers mixed up with the slew of catholics in Italy who have quit the church, are you?
That would be a thread by itself.

No. I don't know many who have done this.
I'm just saying it's possible. I read that Paul and Peter and James and even Jesus state this.
I've been reading about the early church fathers and they did not believe in eternal security.
It's a new teaching, from 1,500. How could it be that this was not thought of in 1,500 years??

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No. I don't know many who have done this.
I'm just saying it's possible. I read that Paul and Peter and James and even Jesus state this.
I've been reading about the early church fathers and they did not believe in eternal security.
It's a new teaching, from 1,500. How could it be that this was not thought of in 1,500 years??

How can you ask me about something from the year 1500?
Asking such a question makes your claim legitimate?
I'll tell you what, give me 4 years to study the first 1500 years of christianity and then I'll get back to you.
I don't know where you come up with these things.
You spend your life studying the year 1500 and I spend mine studying the Bible.
I wonder who really knows the truth?

 

[GodsGrace]

How can you ask me about something from the year 1500?
Asking such a question makes your claim legitimate?
I'll tell you what, give me 4 years to study the first 1500 years of christianity and then I'll get back to you.
I don't know where you come up with these things.
You spend your life studying the year 1500 and I spend mine studying the Bible.
I wonder who really knows the truth?

Only God knows the truth.
He IS Truth.

Pontius Pilate: "And what is truth?"
He was staring right at it.

 

[Stranger]

Why not?
The Prodigal son came back.
Where does God say I can't come back?
I will say this: If one leaves his faith behind it probably is difficult to come back to God. It seems that those who do leave do not come back.

If we want to say that someone cannot lose their salvation, then we must also say that we can tell if one is saved or not. And how are WE supposed to know?
Are WE God?

I hear that "they were never saved to begin with"...
HOW do we know if a person is saved or not?

The prodigal never ceased being a son. If we lose our salvation then we must somehow lose our sonship. We, our spirit, must be unborn, so to speak.

It says it in the verses I gave. Jesus died once for sin. He did not die many times for sin. You don't go back and forth as those under the Old Testament economy, bringing sacrifices continually.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

The prodigal never ceased being a son. If we lose our salvation then we must somehow lose our sonship. We, our spirit, must be unborn, so to speak.

It says it in the verses I gave. Jesus died once for sin. He did not die many times for sin. You don't go back and forth as those under the Old Testament economy, bringing sacrifices continually.

Stranger

Who goes back and forth?
Who brings sacrifices continually?
I don't know what you mean...

 

[Stranger]

Who goes back and forth?
Who brings sacrifices continually?
I don't know what you mean...

If you had lived under the Mosaic Law you would be required to bring animal sacrifices for your sins. Because the animal sacrifices didn't take away sin, only covered it, you would be continually having to bring animal sacrifices for your sins. The High Priest would continually have to offer sacrifices for Israel every year. That is going back and forth.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

If you had lived under the Mosaic Law you would be required to bring animal sacrifices for your sins. Because the animal sacrifices didn't take away sin, only covered it, you would be continually having to bring animal sacrifices for your sins. The High Priest would continually have to offer sacrifices for Israel every year. That is going back and forth.

Stranger

Oh, yes. Of course.
Christ is a better sacrifice.
Hebrews.
Once for all, as you said.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Make believe I'm a different person?
We'll have to agree to eternally disagree!

Lol, make believe you're a different person... lol...............Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Only God knows the truth.
He IS Truth.

Pontius Pilot:. "And what is truth?"
He was staring right at it.

He was talking about the way you spelled his name.
Pilate - Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha

 

[Nancy]

Lol, make believe you're a different person... lol...............Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Gonna take a gander hear and say that you, Rollo, HAVE done that.....

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Oh, yes. Of course.
Christ is a better sacrifice.
Hebrews.
Once for all, as you said.

Once for all, and all for one.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Gonna take a gander hear and say that you, Rollo, HAVE done that.....

A gander is a male goose.
You are going to take a gander and what?????

 

[GodsGrace]

He was talking about the way you spelled his name.
Pilate - Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha

I should charge you! For the fun you have ...

 

[Dcopymope]

It is already too late by Judgment Day. As Scripture says "Now is the accepted time, now is the day of salvation". (2 Cor 6:2) Which means that today is the day of salvation. After death there is only judgment.

Ok, so back to your last post.

You have misunderstood the meaning of the Book of Life (also called the Lamb's Book of Life).

It would appear that only the wicked, and unrepentant and unsaved sinners -- the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars -- will be blotted out of the Book of Life.

Which would mean that all human beings have been initially written into the Book of Life, but their response to God and Christ results in their either (1) remaining in the Book of Life or (2) being expunged (blotted) out of the Book of Life. Please note:

Initially written in the book of life? According to Jesus, no ones name is written in the book of life except believers, since the world was condemned the moment Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

(John 3:18-21) "¶ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. {19} And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. {20} For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. {21} But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

As long as the believer holds fast to the faith, he has no concern of whether or not his name is in the book of life. This is what Jesus was speaking of in context in Rev 3:5. Its referring to the church, and those who overcomes the world will be wearing white garments with him. I don't recall Jesus or any of his apostles ever saying unbelievers will be wearing white garments.

(Revelation 3:1-6) "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. {2} Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. {3} Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. {4} Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. {5} He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. {6} He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

As far as your statement that the "unrepentant and unbelievers" get thrown in the lake of fire, well the text only says "unbelievers", which Jesus explained is synonymous with the "unrepentant". John is referring to a particular type of unbeliever, not to every single soul to ever exist who never even heard of him. On judgement day, it will be more tolerable for the sinners of Sodom than it will be for this particular brand of "unbeliever". The scripture suggests quite plainly that the 'saints', those wearing the 'white garments' won't be the only ones occupying the new earth either.

(Revelation 21:8) "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

(Matthew 10:5-15) "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: {6} But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. {7} And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. {8} Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. {9} Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, {10} Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. {11} And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. {12} And when ye come into an house, salute it. {13} And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. {14} And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. {15} Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

(Revelation 22:1-2) "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. {2} In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

(Revelation 21:24-27) "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. {25} And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. {26} And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. {27} And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

So there are clearly nations still present, but when it comes to Gods new Jerusalem, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, only the faithful.

(Galatians 3:26-29) "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. {27} For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. {28} There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. {29} And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Yes, and the judgement is based primarily on their works, not on whether or not they 'repented'. You can't "repent" of your sins to a being you were never even made privy to in the first place.

(Revelation 20:13) "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Since eternal life is God's gift to those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the saints can never be removed from the Book of Life. They have eternal life.

So you say, but according to Jesus, only the name of the one who overcomes is guaranteed a place in the book of life. I don't mistake his promise to never forsake as me as me never being able to forsake him.

(Revelation 2:8) "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;"..............

(Revelation 2:11) "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

I don't see how such statements can be interpreted in favor of 'once saved always savedism'.