Books Outside the Bible

[CoreIssue]

Well - first of all - you're basing your views on Catholic doctrine on the response of an uncatechized and ignorant Catholic.
NOT wise - OR honest.

Allow me to correct you AND your friend - because the Immaculate Conception IS Scriptural. As in MANY instances in Scripture - this is another place where you need to understand Scripture and linguistics . . .

The Greek word is "Kecharitomene" that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. Thus it translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”
The Angel didn’t say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.” He said, "Hail Kecharitomene."

To refute your second point in RED - I AM here to correct anti-Catholic lies - like I just did with YOU regarding the Immaculate Conception . . .

Wrong.

luke 1:28 - Interlinear Bible Search

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did say a word about what you have asked. I simply pointed out you have not presented anything Biblical.

SURE I have - and I even gave you TWENTY-FOUR Protestant scholars who agree.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong.

luke 1:28 - Interlinear Bible Search

No - RIGHT.
The word used in YOUR link is: kecaritwmevnh, which is "Kecharitomene."
The ROOT WORD is caritovw, which is "Charitoo."

Kecharitomene is the word Luke used in his Gospel.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The apocrypha has long been rejected and disproven.

Question:
WHO told you that the 7 Deuterocanonical Books were uninspired, "apocryphal" works?

WHO rejected them?
WHEN were they rejected?

 

[CoreIssue]

Actually - the 7 Deuteroocanonical Books that were deleted in the POST-Christ. POST-Temple canon that you Protestants adhere to were ALWAYS a part of the OT Canon. They were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon that existed before and during the life of Christ and the apostles. They weren't thrown out until long after the destruction of the Temple.

There are some 200 quotes, references and allusions to these Books on the pages of the NT.
The onus is on YOU to debunk this. I'll make it easy for you and just give you a couple of them . . .
Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Happy hunting . . .

Wrong

The Canon of Scripture

You tried this before an it did not work

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong
The Canon of Scripture
You tried this before an it did not work

Since you can't sem to articulate ANY points in this one-sided debate - I will gladly destroy your false notions about the history of the Canon . . .

During a period of 37 years at the end of the 4th and the turn of the 5th century, the Canon of Scripture was formally declared and confirmed FIVE times. It is the same canon of Scripture that was around during the Protestant Revolt and that is still in use today by the Catholic Church. It was during the so-called Reformation and subsequent periods that rebellious, prideful men had problems with the canon and decided that some of the books were uninspired. Luther wanted to remove several books including Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation. Calvin and Zwingli did not believe Revelation to be inspired and wanted to remove it as well.

- The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified.
- It was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo eleven years later (393).
- At the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

Those are the unchangeable facts of history . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

No - RIGHT.
The word used in YOUR link is: kecaritwmevnh, which is "Kecharitomene."
The ROOT WORD is caritovw, which is "Charitoo."

Kecharitomene is the word Luke used in his Gospel.

So you reject Strong's Interlinear

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong
The Canon of Scripture
You tried this before an it did not work

Here's another question for you:
WHO told you what the Canon of Scripture was?
WHEN was it officially declared?

I am adding these questins to the previous ones:
WHO told you that the 7 Deuterocanonical Books were uninspired, "apocryphal" works?
WHO rejected them?
WHEN were they rejected?

These questions are open to ALL Protestants - whether you're charitable or anti-Catholic . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you reject Strong's Interlinear

Not at all.
If you bother to open your eyes - you will see that the 2 words are different.

 

[farouk]

Here's another question for you:
WHO told you what the Canon of Scripture was?
WHEN was it officially declared?

I am adding these questins to the previous ones:
WHO told you that the 7 Deuterocanonical Books were uninspired, "apocryphal" works?
WHO rejected them?
WHEN were they rejected?

These questions are open to ALL Protestants - whether you're charitable or anti-Catholic . . .

If we are talking about the inherent qualities of self-authenticating Scripture, then I'm not waiting for an ecclesiastic to make pronouncements on the subject.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If we are talking about the inherent qualities of self-authenticating Scripture, then I'm not waiting for an ecclesiastic to make pronouncements on the subject.

Sooooo, one day, YOU decided what was "authentic" and published your OWN Bible?

Perspecuity is a false, man-made doctrine of John Calvin.

 

[Truth]

There's your first mistake "I think".
Do some research instead and you'll see that you're wrong . . .

My First Mistake. Probably One You Will Never Use "Think" for yourself that is!

 

[Jun2u]

Read Matt. 18:15-18.
Jesus tells the Apostles to excommunicate people who disobey His CHURCH.

Rejecting Catholic dogma IS rejecting Biblical doctrine . . .

Knowing how you and the Catholics think, you underlined and capitalized the word church to indicate that the church mentioned is the Catholic church, yet the Bible speaks of a “universal” or a “corporate” church as of the first century. And, this is the problem with your church. The Church Christ built are those inhabited by His people whom He saved!!! Matthew 1:21.

There is another account of this nature in which Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, spoke about being a witness and about forgiveness in 1 Corinthians 5 as well as stated in Matthew 18.

Is there a distinction between these two accounts? None! Both accounts are similar and spiritual fornication.

In Matthew 18 the context is seen in verses 21 and 22, and especially verse 35. In 1 Corinthians 5 the context is found in verses 5-13 but especially in verse 5 which reads:

5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So, excommunication is good IF the offender repents that he might become saved also!

To God Be The Glory

 

[CoreIssue]

Not at all.
If you bother to open your eyes - you will see that the 2 words are different.

Strong never references Kecharitomene

 

[BreadOfLife]

Knowing how you and the Catholics think, you underlined and capitalized the word church to indicate that the church mentioned is the Catholic church, yet the Bible speaks of a “universal” or a “corporate” church as of the first century. And, this is the problem with your church. The Church Christ built are those inhabited by His people whom He saved!!! Matthew 1:21.

There is another account of this nature in which Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, spoke about being a witness and about forgiveness in 1 Corinthians 5 as well as stated in Matthew 18.

Is there a distinction between these two accounts? None! Both accounts are similar and spiritual fornication.

In Matthew 18 the context is seen in verses 21 and 22, and especially verse 35. In 1 Corinthians 5 the context is found in verses 5-13 but especially in verse 5 which reads:

5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

So, excommunication is good IF the offender repents that he might become saved also!

To God Be The Glory

ABSOLUTELY.
Excommunication is a disciplinary action - NOT a curse, as many anti-Catholics like to portray it.

As for your first comments in RED - Jesus built ONE Church. He prayed fervently for that ONE Church to remain as ONE - as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23). He DIDN'T build tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions of that ONE Church.

We read about this ONE Catholic Church at the beginning of the first century from a student of the Apostle John - while John was still alive:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 107]).

Tell me - WHICH Church does that sound like to you??
WHICH Church is obedient to the Bishop and celebrates the Eucharist as the Body of Christ??

This is an Apostolic Father writing on the way to his death by martyrdom.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My First Mistake. Probably One You Will Never Use "Think" for yourself that is!

No - I won't allow myself to "think" that I can usurp Scripture like you guys have.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Strong never references Kecharitomene

Strong's spelled it out in the link YOU provided. Where do you think I got the Greek spelling??
Whether they "address" it is neither here nor there. Strong's in merely ONE of MANY Lexicons and concordances.

 

[CoreIssue]

Strong's spelled it out in the link YOU provided. Where do you think I got the Greek spelling??
Whether they "address" it is neither here nor there. Strong's in merely ONE of MANY Lexicons and concordances.

luke 1:28 - Interlinear Bible Search

Nope. Not there.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

What's wrong with you??

I presented them as examples of DISSIDENTS - not faithful Catholics.
WHO said they're in "good standing"??

Why are you so dishonest??

Have they been excommunicated?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Have they been excommunicated?

Nope - but that DOESN'T mean that they're NOT in "good standing."

Another discipline of the Church is to deny them the Eucharist. this has happened to some politicians who openly promote abortion. Why don't you do your HOMEWORK before making these sorts of asinine claims?? Just do a little research BEFORE you post . . .