Books Outside the Bible

[BreadOfLife]

I have been debating for decades. Even judging debates.

I simply pointed out you provided no reason for anyone to blindly accept your parsed posting.

Another LIE.

I haven't asked ANYBODY to "blindly" accept anything I've said.
In fact - I have challenged ALL of you to do your homework and challenge ME with competing sources.

So far - you guys have FAILED.
I wonder WHY that is . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

Another LIE.

I haven't asked ANYBODY to "blindly" accept anything I've said.
In fact - I have challenged ALL of you to do your homework and challenge ME with competing sources.

So far - you guys have FAILED.
I wonder WHY that is . . .

I did, but you have a habit of ignoring what disproves you.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And, as I've already shown you - the language of the original text doesn't say ANYTHING about "killing" or "exterminating" lives. It is rendered as "expel", "banish" or "excommunicate".

As for expelling or excommunicating heretics - this is a BIBLICAL prescription - NOT an "evil Catholic" punishment (Mat. 18:16-17; 1 Cor. 5:11). If YOU have a problem with that - then YOU have a problem with GOD because it's HIS instruction . . .

Yeah, well, rejecting Bible doctrine and rejecting Catholic dogma are often two different things. Paul gave instructions for dealing with someone in the church who calls himself a Christian but lives like a heathen. He said not to associate with such a person.

1 Cor. 5:11--"But actually, I wrote you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister and is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person."
.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yeah, well, rejecting Bible doctrine and rejecting Catholic dogma are often two different things. Paul gave instructions for dealing with someone in the church who calls himself a Christian but lives like a heathen. He said not to associate with such a person.

1 Cor. 5:11--"But actually, I wrote you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister and is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person."
.

Read Matt. 18:15-18.
Jesus tells the Apostles to excommunicate people who disobey His CHURCH.

Rejecting Catholic dogma IS rejecting Biblical doctrine . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did, but you have a habit of ignoring what disproves you.

No - you didn't.
YOU stated that ALL of the TWENTY FOUR Protestant scholars I presented were unreliable - yet you only spoke ill of ONE.

The onus is on YOU to bring evidence against ALL 24 of them to illustrate why their comments on Matt. 16:18 are incorrect.
If you CAN'T do that - then you've LOST this argument.

That is Debating 101 . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

No - you didn't.
YOU stated that ALL of the TWENTY FOUR Protestant scholars I presented were unreliable - yet you only spoke ill of ONE.

The onus is on YOU to bring evidence against ALL 24 of them to illustrate why their comments on Matt. 16:18 are incorrect.
If you CAN'T do that - then you've LOST this argument.

That is Debating 101 . . .

You're the one who claimed they are reliable. Prove it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You're the one who claimed they are reliable. Prove it.

I NEVER claimed that they were "reliable".
I simply listed their quotes as evidence of Protestant scholars agreeing with the Catholic position on Matt. 16:18.

YOU denigrated them as unreliable "liberals" - yet you FAILED to illustrate why . . .

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Read Matt. 18:15-18.
Jesus tells the Apostles to excommunicate people who disobey His CHURCH.

Rejecting Catholic dogma IS rejecting Biblical doctrine . . .

I'd like to share a personal anecdote concerning this topic. When I was a public school teacher, one of my fellow teachers was a Catholic. One day I asked her how she could accept the Catholic dogma of Immaculate Conception--the belief that Mary was not a sinner even though Mary was born of a human father, i.e. of Adam's seed--in light of the fact that this teaching is not scriptural. Her response was very telling. She said it didn't bother her that this dogma isn't supported in the Bible, but she accepted it because she liked the sound of it. She clearly was not concerned with the unbiblical nature of Catholic dogma.

As a Christian who has sought to base all of my beliefs on the Holy Spirit-inspired Bible and not what man says, I was shocked! Unfortunately, I think that many Catholics are like this teacher. I knew Catholics who had NEVER read and studied the Bible on their own. In fact, they were told by their priests that they couldn't understand the Bible on their own!!! When I was young, the Catholic masses in my city were still in Latin--not very conducive to questioning, wouldn't you agree?

BoL, you say that you're on this forum to refute "anti-Catholic lies," but I wonder if you're mainly here to proselytize. I pray in earnest that no one buys into the lies that you're spewing on behalf of your fallible Catholic leader. And, as I said before, I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth!

 

[CoreIssue]

I NEVER claimed that they were "reliable".
I simply listed their quotes as evidence of Protestant scholars agreeing with the Catholic position on Matt. 16:18.

YOU denigrated them as unreliable "liberals" - yet you FAILED to illustrate why . . .

You've listed them as proof.

 

[Truth]

WOW - another lie. What a surprise . . .

There are MANY Catholic dissenters who are not excommunicated. They're commonly known as "Cafeteria Catholics".
You guys REALLY need to do your homework before you go around making these sorts of embarrassing claims . . .

I think that if you disagree to the rule's in any organization, and you get the boot, well then your future in that organization is mute.
SOOOOOOO where is the Lie!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Not sure WHERE you are getting your information - but what started out as a charitable conversation has now become a full-on anti-Catholic assault.

AGAIN - we were NOT discussing infallibility. We were discussing Peter being the "Rock" of Matt. 16:18 - which YOU are trying to derail because you're LOSING this argument. There are MANY people who openly challenge Catholic dogma, doctrine, Tradition, etc. - and are NOT excommunicated. Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden come to mind.

Tone down the lies and stick to the facts . . .

It's interesting that you mention these two very liberal politicians as being members in good standing of the Catholic Church. Why are they???

Pelosi has been so "concerned" with ICE ripping babies out of their mothers' arms, but she doesn't have a problem with doctors ripping helpless babies out of their mothers' wombs! Here are a couple of articles revealing her immoral anti-Christian stance on abortion.

Pelosi Invokes God in Defense of Her Pro-Abortion Stance
Nancy Pelosi Makes a Jaw-Dropping Statement to Justify Her Support of Abortion

Pro-Abortion Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi Claims, “I Am a Practicing Catholic”
Pro-Abortion Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi Claims, “I Am a Practicing Catholic” | LifeNews.com

 

[CoreIssue]

Another LIE.

I haven't asked ANYBODY to "blindly" accept anything I've said.
In fact - I have challenged ALL of you to do your homework and challenge ME with competing sources.

So far - you guys have FAILED.
I wonder WHY that is . . .

I did say a word about what you have asked. I simply pointed out you have not presented anything Biblical.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You've listed them as proof.

I listed them to show you that it's not just Catholics who teach this.
Now the onus is on YOU to disprove them.

 

[Heb 13:8]

fi there such great books then why hasn't anything amazing been revealed on channel six news

 

[BreadOfLife]

I think that if you disagree to the rule's in any organization, and you get the boot, well then your future in that organization is mute.
SOOOOOOO where is the Lie!

There's your first mistake "I think".
Do some research instead and you'll see that you're wrong . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's interesting that you mention these two very liberal politicians as being members in good standing of the Catholic Church. Why are they???

Pelosi has been so "concerned" with ICE ripping babies out of their mothers' arms, but she doesn't have a problem with doctors ripping helpless babies out of their mothers' wombs! Here are a couple of articles revealing her immoral anti-Christian stance on abortion.

Pelosi Invokes God in Defense of Her Pro-Abortion Stance
Nancy Pelosi Makes a Jaw-Dropping Statement to Justify Her Support of Abortion

Pro-Abortion Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi Claims, “I Am a Practicing Catholic”
Pro-Abortion Democrat Leader Nancy Pelosi Claims, “I Am a Practicing Catholic” | LifeNews.com

What's wrong with you??

I presented them as examples of DISSIDENTS - not faithful Catholics.
WHO said they're in "good standing"??

Why are you so dishonest??

 

[CoreIssue]

I listed them to show you that it's not just Catholics who teach this.
Now the onus is on YOU to disprove them.

The apocrypha has long been rejected and disproven. Right along with all the other gnostic writings and catholic extra Biblical materials.

You want to claim different, prove their accuracy.

As said before, negative proof demands are not accepted.

Light Bearer Ministries International :: Full List Of Extra Biblical Writings

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'd like to share a personal anecdote concerning this topic. When I was a public school teacher, one of my fellow teachers was a Catholic. One day I asked her how she could accept the Catholic dogma of Immaculate Conception--the belief that Mary was not a sinner even though Mary was born of a human father, i.e. of Adam's seed--in light of the fact that this teaching is not scriptural. Her response was very telling. She said it didn't bother her that this dogma isn't supported in the Bible, but she accepted it because she liked the sound of it. She clearly was not concerned with the unbiblical nature of Catholic dogma.

As a Christian who has sought to base all of my beliefs on the Holy Spirit-inspired Bible and not what man says, I was shocked! Unfortunately, I think that many Catholics are like this teacher. I knew Catholics who had NEVER read and studied the Bible on their own. In fact, they were told by their priests that they couldn't understand the Bible on their own!!! When I was young, the Catholic masses in my city were still in Latin--not very conducive to questioning, wouldn't you agree?

BoL, you say that you're on this forum to refute "anti-Catholic lies," but I wonder if you're mainly here to proselytize. I pray in earnest that no one buys into the lies that you're spewing on behalf of your fallible Catholic leader. And, as I said before, I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth!

Well - first of all - you're basing your views on Catholic doctrine on the response of an uncatechized and ignorant Catholic.
NOT wise - OR honest.

Allow me to correct you AND your friend - because the Immaculate Conception IS Scriptural. As in MANY instances in Scripture - this is another place where you need to understand Scripture and linguistics . . .

The Greek word is "Kecharitomene" that Luke used in his Gospel (v.1:28), which is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. Thus it translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”
The Angel didn’t say, “Hail Mary, full of grace.” He said, "Hail Kecharitomene."

To refute your second point in RED - I AM here to correct anti-Catholic lies - like I just did with YOU regarding the Immaculate Conception . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The apocrypha has long been rejected and disproven. Right along with all the other gnostic writings and catholic extra Biblical materials.

You want to claim different, prove their accuracy.

As said before, negative proof demands are not accepted.

Light Bearer Ministries International :: Full List Of Extra Biblical Writings

Actually - the 7 Deuteroocanonical Books that were deleted in the POST-Christ. POST-Temple canon that you Protestants adhere to were ALWAYS a part of the OT Canon. They were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon that existed before and during the life of Christ and the apostles. They weren't thrown out until long after the destruction of the Temple.

There are some 200 quotes, references and allusions to these Books on the pages of the NT.
The onus is on YOU to debunk this. I'll make it easy for you and just give you a couple of them . . .
Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Happy hunting . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

fi there such great books then why hasn't anything amazing been revealed on channel six news

Because it's not "new" news.
They've been part of the Christian Canon for some 1600 years and were part of the OPEN Jewish Canon before and during the life of Christ.

Oh, by the way - EVERY year when I watch the news about the start of Hanukkah - I think of 1 Maccabees 4:6-59 . . .