Born-again believers are to look for and expect a very soon rapture(catching up)!!

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MA2444

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You might want to actually read... your Bible, instead of feeding the pockets of the false pre-trib rapture teachers who call Jesus a liar...

Matt 24:29-31
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

I used to believe just as you say. But I did keep studying. And...let's just say that I dont think that you should stop your own studies yet on this issue of pre trib or post trib. You're almost there.

I could explain it to you, but not in one post.
 

Davy

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I used to believe just as you say. But I did keep studying. And...let's just say that I dont think that you should stop your own studies yet on this issue of pre trib or post trib. You're almost there.

I could explain it to you, but not in one post.
Some folks actually think that, "I used to believe like you" statement works. It does not. All it does is reveal your actual lack of Bible study. Statements like, "You're almost there" when one's own lack of Bible study is self evident only reveals haughtiness against The Word of God.

The FRUIT of actual Bible study is about 'keeping' to what The Bible actually teaches as written. A Pre-trib Rapture theory is not written anywhere in The Bible.

Nor do I need anyone to 'explain' to me the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory that originates from men, and NOT from God's Word.

So if MA2444 actually understood what Bible Scripture shows, he/she would have given Scripture proof by now, instead of idiotic mocking words with attempting to exalt himself.
 

MA2444

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Some folks actually think that, "I used to believe like you" statement works. It does not. All it does is reveal your actual lack of Bible study. Statements like, "You're almost there" when one's own lack of Bible study is self evident only reveals haughtiness against The Word of God.

The FRUIT of actual Bible study is about 'keeping' to what The Bible actually teaches as written. A Pre-trib Rapture theory is not written anywhere in The Bible.

Nor do I need anyone to 'explain' to me the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory that originates from men, and NOT from God's Word.

So if MA2444 actually understood what Bible Scripture shows, he/she would have given Scripture proof by now, instead of idiotic mocking words with attempting to exalt himself.

Haughtiness. Exalt myself. Ok I can ser that you're looking for a fight and I seen your attitude yesterday and knew how you would respond to me. So I didn't bother getting out all my notes and typing an hour for the arrogance that you already are embracing. There's all sorts of scripture proof of a pre trib rapture to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

But you can choose to believe whatever you want to. No skin off my back.
 

Davy

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Haughtiness. Exalt myself. Ok I can ser that you're looking for a fight and I seen your attitude yesterday and knew how you would respond to me. So I didn't bother getting out all my notes and typing an hour for the arrogance that you already are embracing. There's all sorts of scripture proof of a pre trib rapture to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

But you can choose to believe whatever you want to. No skin off my back.

I'm not going to WAIT... for those like you on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory to produce Biblical proof of that theory, because I know you cannot. So your mouthing only serves to let others here know that you don't have a clue about Bible Scripture, otherwise you would be able to produce Scripture proof of the FALSE pre-trib rapture idea.
 

MA2444

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I'm not going to WAIT... for those like you on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory to produce Biblical proof of that theory, because I know you cannot. So your mouthing only serves to let others here know that you don't have a clue about Bible Scripture, otherwise you would be able to produce Scripture proof of the FALSE pre-trib rapture idea.

The 2nd coming is a seperate event from the rapture. The clues are all over scripture! If you have low comprehension and mingle rapture scriptures with 2nd coming scriptures, it creates many contradictions. What do you do with the contradictions?

Like for instance, we are taught that Jesus coming for the rapture will be by surprise and no man knoweth the day or hour. This is called being imminent, or could happen at any moment. Thus, the doctrine of Imminency. (Matthew 24:36)

We know exactly when the 2nd coming is and prophetical events must happen first before it happens. The anti-christ gets a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and that starts the great trib. Then 1260 days later anti-christ goes in the temple and does the abomination of desolation. The it's exactly 1260 more days until Jesus 2nd coming. Book of Daniel.

SO what do we do with these contradictions? Explain that with scripture. Let's let scripture interpret scripture.
 

MA2444

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I'm not going to WAIT... for those like you on man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory to produce Biblical proof of that theory, because I know you cannot. So your mouthing only serves to let others here know that you don't have a clue about Bible Scripture, otherwise you would be able to produce Scripture proof of the FALSE pre-trib rapture idea.

It's two events. You dont seem to get that.

Rapture/ The saints are raptured out and go to heaven.
2nd Coming/ The saints return to the earth.

Rapture/the earth is not judged.
2nd coming/ The earth is judged.

Rapture/imminent
2nd coming/Not Imminent.

Rapture/ Affects Believers only.
2nd coming/ Affects all men on earth.

Rapture/before the day of wrath.
2nd coming/ Concludes the day of wrath.

Rapture/ no refrence to Satan.
2nd coming/ Satan Bound for 1000 years.

Rapture/ He comes in the air.
2nd coming/He comes to the earth.

Rapture/He comes for His Bride.
2nd coming/He comes with His Bride.

Rapture/Only the saints see Him.
2nd coming/Every eye shall see Him.

They two events in scripture are clearly two events!

He comes for His Briide, the church at the rapture.

If your response to this is reasonable, I'll give you all the scriptures which go with all of what I am saying. But if you continue to act like a punk troll then phooey on you.
 

MA2444

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Firstly, flesh cannot go into Heaven. You should believe what Apostle Paul said about that...

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


And per 2 Corinthians 5 per Apostle Paul, the dead in Christ are already with Him, for to be absent from the body means to be with The Lord.

Do you read what you write? Or just write it and go? You contradict yourself in that post.

So if flesh can not go to heaven then how are they with the Lord? Do you know that your flesh body is not the real you? That you are a spirit & soul being inside of a flesh body?

You dont know that do you? May I suggest that you actually read the Bible for yourself and not just repeat things you hear? You have so much error in your doctrine.
 

GISMYS_7

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God's Word tells us who Jesus is returning to catch up==Hebrews 9:28. so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto """those who look for Him shall He appear the second time""" without sin, unto salvation. Those that do not believe and are not expecting and looking for the rapture are Not caught up!! Their choice!!
 
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Davy

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The 2nd coming is a seperate event from the rapture. The clues are all over scripture! If you have low comprehension and mingle rapture scriptures with 2nd coming scriptures, it creates many contradictions. What do you do with the contradictions?
Not what God's Word teaches. That idea comes from men's doctrines of a FALSE Pre-trib Rapture 'theory'.

There is only ONE future return by Lord Jesus, and it is on the last day of this world, and is when He comes to gather His 'faithful' Church. This is why Zechariah 9:9-10 points to only TWO comings by Lord Jesus, the 1st one He was meek to die on His cross, and the 2nd one, which is still future to us, is to bring judgment and reign over all peoples and nations on this earth.

Like for instance, we are taught that Jesus coming for the rapture will be by surprise and no man knoweth the day or hour. This is called being imminent, or could happen at any moment. Thus, the doctrine of Imminency. (Matthew 24:36)

We know exactly when the 2nd coming is and prophetical events must happen first before it happens. The anti-christ gets a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and that starts the great trib. Then 1260 days later anti-christ goes in the temple and does the abomination of desolation. The it's exactly 1260 more days until Jesus 2nd coming. Book of Daniel.

SO what do we do with these contradictions? Explain that with scripture. Let's let scripture interpret scripture.
I've already heard all those ideas from the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory, maybe even before you were even born! Those ideas are ADDITIONS by men to The Word of God.

John Darby in 1830's Britain was first to preach those ideas in a Christian Church. And he even at one time used the idea of a "secret" coming involving the rapture, then the Pre-trib school later dropped that idea.

What Lord Jesus actually taught was that the day of His coming would be "as a thief", which is the idea of His coming being like a surprise UPON THE DECEIVED AND WICKED.

So HOW is it then, that you are told by your teachers that Christ's coming will be a 'surprise' to His saints???


The following is what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 5...

1 Thess 5:1-9
1 But of
the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

That "times and the seasons" is about the end time events. Many of those events were actually first given in the Old Testament prophets, and Paul here is going to reveal one of those prophecies for the end right here.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3
For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

When the DECEIVED say that, "Peace and safety", which points to the "great tribulation" time, then soon after that time, "sudden destruction" will come upon "them", which destruction is about the last day of this world on that "day of the Lord" that will comes "as a thief". THAT... is the day Lord Jesus was pointing to when He said He comes "as a thief" (Rev.16:15). That is the 'day' Paul is pointing to here about Christ's future coming.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


There it is, that "day of the Lord", which will come "as a thief in the night", is NOT to overtake those of us in Christ, "as a thief"! It is NOT to be a SURPRISE FOR CHRIST'S CHURCH! Why then do the false Pre-trib Rapture preachers teach that it will... be a surprise coming to the Church??

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV


Apostle Paul even shows that those who will be deceived by that fake time of "Peace and safety" during the "great tribulation" means being in spiritual "darkness", and spiritually "asleep", and even spiritually "drunken in the night"!

Then Paul shows God's Wrath, i.e., that "sudden destruction" he was pointing to on that "day of the Lord", IS NOT meant for us, Christ's Church. So how is it your false Pre-trib Rapture doctors instead preach the opposite, saying that "wrath" there is about Satan's wrath during the tribulation, and that we won't suffer it because we will be raptured before it comes??

That is NOT Satan's "wrath" Paul was pointing to; it is GOD's cup of Wrath poured out upon the wicked on the LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD (on that "day of the Lord"), which is about the "sudden destruction" idea upon the wicked that Paul was speaking of!

As usual, the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory doctors turn the actual Scriptures around 180 degrees and teach LIES. They are pushing a false doctrine from the devil.
 

Davy

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It's two events. You dont seem to get that.
No it is not. Christ's future coming is only ONE event. Nowhere does God's Word teach that Christ comes THREE TIMES. You are pushing an OBVIOUS LIE from the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors who taught you that LIE.

Rapture/ The saints are raptured out and go to heaven.
2nd Coming/ The saints return to the earth.
NOPE.
Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. And it says His feet will touch down there, AND bringing all His saints with Him there. That is written in Zechariah 14.

Rapture/the earth is not judged.
2nd coming/ The earth is judged.
NOPE! Per Jude 14-15 quoting from the Book of Enoch, Jesus comes with ten thousands of His saints "To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." John 5:28-29 even shows when He comes, all in the graves will come forth, either unto the "resurrection of life" if they did good, or to the "resurrection of damnation" if they did evil. And Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 that the asleep saints Jesus brings with Him will be resurrected first on that day of His coming to gather His Church.

So tell me, WHEN... is the FUTURE RESURRECTION going to happen per God's Word? ANSWER: on the LAST DAY of this world, which by the way is the "day of the Lord", and is the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church. Have your false teachers even tried to hide this from you...

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life:
and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV


....

If your response to this is reasonable, I'll give you all the scriptures which go with all of what I am saying. But if you continue to act like a punk troll then phooey on you.
So man's secular reasoning... is more important than what GOD's WORD says? That is what you are saying. No wonder you are so deceived away from Bible Scripture.
 
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Davy

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Do you read what you write? Or just write it and go? You contradict yourself in that post.

WHY... don't you READ what God's written Word says?? Where is your Bible Scripture evidence for 'your' reasoning?

Why do you instead rely on what the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture preachers say??

Why can't the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture preachers find Scripture support for their theories??
 
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Davy

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God's Word tells us who Jesus is returning to catch up==Hebrews 9:28. so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto """those who look for Him shall He appear the second time""" without sin, unto salvation. Those that do not believe and are not expecting and looking for the rapture are Not caught up!! Their choice!!
AMAZING! You cannot even READ that actual verse as written, showing God has put a cloud of spiritual blindness over your mind!

Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall
He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
KJV


That "second time" is ALL THERE IS LEFT TO HIS FUTURE COMING. His 1st coming was to die on the cross which happened about 2,000 years ago.


FIRST COMING:
Zech 9:9
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.


SECOND COMING:
Zech 9:10
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV


That's it, Jesus comes ONLY TWO TIMES per God's written Word, NOT THREE (which three is what the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches).
 

MA2444

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As usual, the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory doctors turn the actual Scriptures around 180 degrees and teach LIES. They are pushing a false doctrine from the devil.

Wow I wouldnt want to be talking a doctrine of the devil for sure. What do you suppose the actual danger is to a pretrib believer in looking sooner rather than later for Jesus coming?
 

Davy

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Wow I wouldnt want to be talking a doctrine of the devil for sure. What do you suppose the actual danger is to a pretrib believer in looking sooner rather than later for Jesus coming?
Jesus warned His 'faithful' saints about the coming of a pseudo-Christ that will work miracles on earth to deceive the whole... world, and that false one will come PRIOR to Jesus' coming to gather His Church.

So there it is. The FALSE Pre-trib Rapture doctors are PREPARING the deceived with their FALSE doctrine to 'fly away' to that false-Messiah that comes first, the Antichrist.

That's it in a nutshell. But you won't believe me, not unless you actually get down to real Bible study discipline for yourself with asking God's help, and quit listening to Satan's host behind that FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory.
 

MA2444

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WHY... don't you READ what God's written Word says?? Where is your Bible Scripture evidence for 'your' reasoning?

Why do you instead rely on what the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture preachers say??

Why can't the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture preachers find Scripture support for their theories??

I have all my scriptures about this subject, but I still dont like your attitude. You are a punk sir. I may post the but not in response to you and your ilk. Lol.
 

MA2444

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Jesus warned His 'faithful' saints about the coming of a pseudo-Christ that will work miracles on earth to deceive the whole... world, and that false one will come PRIOR to Jesus' coming to gather His Church.

So there it is. The FALSE Pre-trib Rapture doctors are PREPARING the deceived with their FALSE doctrine to 'fly away' to that false-Messiah that comes first, the Antichrist.

That's it in a nutshell. But you won't believe me, not unless you actually get down to real Bible study discipline for yourself with asking God's help, and quit listening to Satan's host behind that FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory.

You are preaching here. WOuld the Christian Brother care to back up what he says with scripture. More than one single scripture. You only have one scripture that you go to every time. That's not a good way to study. We must let scripture interpret scripture.
 

MA2444

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I've already heard all those ideas from the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory, maybe even before you were even born! Those ideas are ADDITIONS by men to The Word of God.

So you wont address any of that that I wrote?

Shame on you christan brother!

WHy do scream in your posts? You sound like an idiot when you do that. Like typin in Caps will make people believe you more?! Lol! Let the reader beware and make up their own mind on your words and proofs of scripture.

You dont have to believe me. What I think doesnt matter. WHat you think doesnt matter.

What matters is what the word of God teaches.
 

MA2444

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No it is not. Christ's future coming is only ONE event. Nowhere does God's Word teach that Christ comes THREE TIMES. You are pushing an OBVIOUS LIE from the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors who taught you that LIE.

It does teach that, to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

You always lost in high school debate class huh? You make your claim and then provide your proof.

That's how it works. And when someone presents a counter view to yours, then you started yelling and so did not win the debate.

You are a flake.
 

Davy

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I have all my scriptures about this subject, but I still dont like your attitude. You are a punk sir. I may post the but not in response to you and your ilk. Lol.

That's FUNNY! calling me a punk! Sticks n' stones... bro. I'm an ex-Vietnam veteran, so don't think I haven't before heard any idiotic junk that might come out of your mouth.

You obviously do not have the Biblical discipline to even stick ... with a Biblical discussion! Nor the manners, which by your attacking me personally JUST BECAUSE I CALL MEN'S FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY A LIE, and it makes YOU angry, you show your spiritual WEAKNESS by the ONLY METHOD you can fall back on, FROM THE DEVIL, and that is to try and ATTACK ME PERSONALLY!

The TRUTH in the SCRIPTURES that I have posted have you so turned up inside to a frenzy, you are now showing you don't know what to do or say!
 

Davy

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It does teach that, to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

You always lost in high school debate class huh? You make your claim and then provide your proof.

That's how it works. And when someone presents a counter view to yours, then you started yelling and so did not win the debate.

You are a flake.
NOPE. God's Word teaches only ONE RETURN by Jesus Christ.

And that RETURN is AFTER... the tribulation like Jesus said...


Matt 24:29-31
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

So go ahead... I dare you... tell a LIE from the devil working through you and say Jesus didn't say the above SCRIPTURE!