Born again of God vs religious conversion

[Ghada]

The Bible gospel promises a perfect new birth in Jesus Christ, with all things in life now being of God. Religions of man promise only a partial rebirth of a better life.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God...

This is the Bible conversion of being born again by Jesus Christ. It is a perfect and complete new birth, that no more has anything to do with our past living. The new convert to Jesus becomes just as babes from the womb, that have no past living at all to condemn them.

All things are now at once made perfectly new and of God. There is nothing of the old life that remains of the devil. All things of the soul and life are now of God, and just as blameless as the man Jesus Himself.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Any other kind of incomplete conversion in life is the religious conversion of man only.

All religions teach a form of godliness, that we should sin less, but never being purely newborn without sin and wholly blameless with God, even as Jesus was from the womb.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

This is common to Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc... religions. They do not ever preach being holy in spirit and life with God in all things. They never preach being able to be holy in all our manner of conversation at any time, because they do not believe in ever being born again and made that way by God through Jesus Christ.

There is on simple question to ask any religious person on earth. Can man ever be perfectly holy, righteous, and blameless in life with God? If not, it's only because they don't believe the Bible's perfect conversion and reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

At best, some preach the Bible new birth and conversion as happening only after the grave. Until then, they are content with a religious conversion of their own, to sin less in a form of godliness, but never being perfectly conformed in this life to the image of God's dear Son.

 

[Ghada]

There is also a follow up difference in how we live between the gospel conversion of Jesus Christ in the Bible, and the incomplete conversion of all other religions of man. As newborn babes in Christ, we are commanded and exhorted to continue blameless in all things with God.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: (Col 2)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (Eph 1)

We are born again as Jesus from the womb, when receiving Him, and we are to remain and walk that way with Jesus from the heart.

The conversion of man's religions never exhort remaining blameless in all things with God, because they never preach ever being all blameless and righteous and pure with God in the first place.

They do not preach having the perfect newborn conversion with Jesus Christ at any time on earth, and so naturally they do not preach continuing in it.

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.

Those who do not believe in ever being perfectly newborn by God without sin, certainly don't believe in remaining that way. Through their religion of incomplete conversion, they remain still being touched of the devil with his things in life unto the end.

They certainly do have a new form of godliness in life, with more desire to do good than evil, but they are never doing all good. They never cease from sinning and having no touch from the devil.

The life of the perfectly converted newborn babes of Christ Jesus, begins with losing all touch with the devil. The life of the incomplete conversion of man's religion, still keeps in touch with the devil more or less from time to time.

They never lose all touch with the devil in this life, because they do not believe in the perfect conversion of Jesus Christ, so as to ever lose all sin and sinning with the devil at any time on earth.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Have you never read 1 john3:1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He .

 

[Ghada]

Have you never read 1 john3:1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. 2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He .

Very True. This is why there is a very real difference between being born of God and knowing Him personally, and having a religious conversion of only hearing and knowing about Him. The Bible says that dividing line is between hearers only and doers of the word and truth of Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

The Bible gospel promises a perfect new birth in Jesus Christ, with all things in life now being of God. Religions of man promise only a partial rebirth of a better life.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God...

This is the Bible conversion of being born again by Jesus Christ. It is a perfect and complete new birth, that no more has anything to do with our past living. The new convert to Jesus becomes just as babes from the womb, that have no past living at all to condemn them.

All things are now at once made perfectly new and of God. There is nothing of the old life that remains of the devil. All things of the soul and life are now of God, and just as blameless as the man Jesus Himself.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Any other kind of incomplete conversion in life is the religious conversion of man only.

All religions teach a form of godliness, that we should sin less, but never being purely newborn without sin and wholly blameless with God, even as Jesus was from the womb.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

This is common to Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc... religions. They do not ever preach being holy in spirit and life with God in all things. They never preach being able to be holy in all our manner of conversation at any time, because they do not believe in ever being born again and made that way by God through Jesus Christ.

There is on simple question to ask any religious person on earth. Can man ever be perfectly holy, righteous, and blameless in life with God? If not, it's only because they don't believe the Bible's perfect conversion and reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

At best, some preach the Bible new birth and conversion as happening only after the grave. Until then, they are content with a religious conversion of their own, to sin less in a form of godliness, but never being perfectly conformed in this life to the image of God's dear Son.

This is a great misunderstanding of the scriptures.

If what you assert above were actually true, we would all be walking on water and through walls. But the things of scripture are not actual in the way that you have understood them, but for the most part are given in parables.

For example: Man was merely created "in the image of God", meaning that no man could ever actually be born as God as Jesus "the only begotten Son" was, whether born again or otherwise. So, you see, you are mixing what is actual with the image that is not actual, and expecting that the image can be something more than the image. And this you do contradicting the very idea of being born again of the spirit of God, as if to be born again were to regenerate the man of flesh into some sort of glorified flesh which the bible does not say at all-- glorified body yes, but not glorified flesh. So no, the image carrying the new spirit body born of the spirit of God cannot walk on water of itself and new, for it is not made new. To the contrary, it is the spirit that is new and not the flesh...and if the flesh were to walk on water it would not be forever, for the spirit is forever but the flesh is not.

So you are propagating a false gospel of giving glory to the flesh, which the bible does not do or say or advocate in any way.

 

[Behold]

The Bible gospel promises a perfect new birth in Jesus Christ,

Notice..

"born again"...

That is not your body, and its not you mind.

So, what is "born.....again"?

This is the "New Creation"... and notice where it now exists....= "IN Christ".

Where is He?
Where is JESUS right now. ????

= "ascended back into Heaven".... 2000 yrs ago., and is now "SEATED at the right hand of the Father"

This is why Paul teaches us that the born again are = "Seated in Heavenly Places" as that is to be IN CHRIST, and He's up there..

The reason most of you have never SEEN THIS BEFORE, is because you have not been TAUGHT How to understand "BORN AGAIN", as a "NEW Creation"...."In Christ"... ."one with God".

Reader....
To be born again, is to be Spiritually Joined, for eternity, to God and Christ.

Being born again.. .happens like this.

God, the Holy Spirit BIRTHS your spirit into His, by the Holy Spirit.

= BORN....................again".

"Spiritual BIRTH"...


So, this is the Son/Daughter of God...... as " GOD is A Spirit".

Its not your body that is born , as they are going to bury it or cremate it.
The born again ,,...,, get a NEW BODY.
And its not your mind, as you have to deal with your mind and get it in alignment with Gods perspective.

 

[marks]

There is on simple question to ask any religious person on earth. Can man ever be perfectly holy, righteous, and blameless in life with God? If not, it's only because they don't believe the Bible's perfect conversion and reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

You are not a qualified judge of yourself, and therefore, any claims to be perfectly holy, righteous, and blameless are inappropriate.

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Here Paul acknowledges that it is Jesus, not himself, Who will judge him. When you judge yourself, you are only expressing your flawed opinions of yourself, but without full knowledge.

So, yes, you may be fully matured in the faith, and not committing sins, only, you won't truly know it, and therefore, we are to remain humble. Judging yourself "sinless" is purely hubris.

Much love!

 

[07-07-07]

Once someone has really been born again, that person will then of the heart pursue God's righteousness and holiness. Anything less is not a born again experience.

 

[Behold]

Once someone has really been born again, that person will then of the heart pursue God's righteousness and holiness. Anything less is not a born again experience.

The born again are made righteous., instantly.

"faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness, and they are born again by God's Spirit.

They start there, as "made righteous"....... having been a lifelong sinner, 24 seconds before they were born again.

So, It can take a little while before they reach "mature christian status" as : "in the world, but not of it".

James says of some of these born again ..... that later..... their faith (not their Salvation)... is dead.......and that can happen.
Some born again leave the ministry... = DEMAS..... Mark.

There are a few, who become a "Live wire on fire", once they are born again.
They went to church that morning, with their headphones on, listening to "death metal" or "Beyonce", or "Lady Gaga"... and during the church service, they heard the Gospel, and "faith comes by hearing" and they left Church that very morning... on their way to a bible bookstore where they bought $400.00 USD worth of Christian Music, Bible commentaries, and a Big KJV, leather bound, with gold edges.

What Happen to them?

Jesus showed up, in their Heart. (Conviction of the Holy Spirit).

"BORN AGAIN"..

I have an older Brother who was a truly worldly person, until He was 40+ yrs old.
He came to the end of Himself on His knees, in some previously unknown "pastor's office", about 7am in the morning... with the Pastor praying with Him for His Salvation.
(William) told me later....>"Brother, when i got up off my knees, i was light as a feather, filled with joy unspeakable, and the trees outside LOOKED DIFFERENT.
4 Yrs later, He had his own Church.

It can be like that..

For others, it can be a beautiful work in progress, a constant modest growth in the spirit.... over a lifetime.

 

[07-07-07]

@Behold - Just telling God that you're sorry for your sins without any intention of forsaking said sins is not a born again experience.

 

[Behold]

@Behold - Just telling God that you're sorry for your sins without any intention of forsaking said sins is not a born again experience.

Being born again is not about telling God "i did it again, 456 more times".

Being Born again, is a birth of your spirit, into The Spirit of God....by the Holy Spirit, and not by water.

"Its by my SPIRIT....sayeth the Lord".

So, God does that for you........because you gave God your Faith in Christ... one time. one day, that instant.

He accepted our faith, and gives us, : Salvation, which is to be forgiven, ... made righteous, and born again.

 

[Ghada]

This is a great misunderstanding of the scriptures.

It's a quote with great unbelief of Christian sinners like you. You don't want to ever be pure born of God, because then you have no excuse not to live it. And you don't want to live it, because you don't want to repent of all your sinning.

It's why sinful Christians preach being born with sin from the cradle, so that their born again conversion is just a reboot a sinners now only seek to sin less. And they preach sinning to the grave, because they don't want to repent of sinning for life.

Simple enough.

If what you assert above were actually true, we would all be walking on water and through walls.

So, you have jettisoned your former intellectual honesty in the face of simple scripture of truth.

Coming up with absurdum, is not showing up an argument ad absurdum.

Jesus in mortal flesh never walked through walls. If we don't walk on water, then it's just not the faith and ministry Christ gives us. They were healed by the passing shadow of Peter however.

But the things of scripture are not actual in the way that you have understood them, but for the most part are given in parables.

The old tired ploy of making literal verses into parables only, to do away with the truth of the verses.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

No parable.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

No parable.

For example: Man was merely created "in the image of God",

Merely. Good job God, but big deal.

Adam was born a son of God with pure heart and clean life in God's image. So it is with every man today created by Christ in His image and lightened by Him coming into the world.

meaning that no man could ever actually be born as God as Jesus "the only begotten Son" was, whether born again or otherwise.

Not as the Word coming down from heaven by commandment of the Father, but certainly being born pure as Christ with all things now of God, even as the babe Jesus from Mary's womb.

This of course is only by repenting of sinning first.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

This is the prophesied promise through the Son for every son of God born today, who do repent of sinning to believe and obey Him:

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This proves the prophetic words of Heb 1 of the Son coming in the flesh, also applies to the pure new born repented believers and sons in the Son Christ Jesus.

Your unbelief by an unrepented heart does not make it not so.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Ghada]

So, you see, you are mixing what is actual with the image that is not actual, and expecting that the image can be something more than the image.

Whatever. This stuff is fine to play with at times, but when you are disbelieving plain words of the Bible, it just becomes a philosophic insult to the words of God in the Bible.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You really think reverting to your learned image vs not actual image talk, is going to do away with plain words and sense of the Bible?

It's like making battle plans, and then going off into vague theories of Zun Tsu, that has nothing to do the practical battle at hand.

Some comedies have played that part, but your stuff is a sideshow without the funny.

And this you do contradicting the very idea of being born again of the spirit of God, as if to be born again were to regenerate the man of flesh into some sort of glorified flesh which the bible does not say at all--

You mix blameless living of pure born saints, with resurrection of the body. You do it on purpose. It's the same manner of sinful Christians that purposely mix Christian perfection on earth with that of God in heaven.

On earth in Christ we endure to overcome all temptation of the mind and spirit, even as He did. On the throne God cannot even be tempted with sin, even as His resurrected Son in heaven. Nor will be His resurrected sons at His appearing.

So you are propagating a false gospel of giving glory to the flesh, which the bible does not do or say or advocate in any way.

You are propagating a falsified version of it, in order to denounce it as absurd.

Your version is absurd, not the pure born perfectly whole conversion of them in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin.

As Jesus would say, go and learn what this is, and you would not preach any sinner having sin, as being in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ghada]

Notice..

"born again"...

That is not your body, and its not you mind.

So, what is "born.....again"?

This is the "New Creation"... and notice where it now exists....= "IN Christ".

Where is He?
Where is JESUS right now. ????

= "ascended back into Heaven".... 2000 yrs ago., and is now "SEATED at the right hand of the Father"

This is why Paul teaches us that the born again are = "Seated in Heavenly Places" as that is to be IN CHRIST, and He's up there..

The reason most of you have never SEEN THIS BEFORE, is because you have not been TAUGHT How to understand "BORN AGAIN", as a "NEW Creation"...."In Christ"... ."one with God".

Reader....
To be born again, is to be Spiritually Joined, for eternity, to God and Christ.

Being born again.. .happens like this.

God, the Holy Spirit BIRTHS your spirit into His, by the Holy Spirit.

= BORN....................again".

"Spiritual BIRTH"...


So, this is the Son/Daughter of God...... as " GOD is A Spirit".

Its not your body that is born , as they are going to bury it or cremate it.
The born again ,,...,, get a NEW BODY.
And its not your mind, as you have to deal with your mind and get it in alignment with Gods perspective.

So long as we repent of sinning first, and overcome sinning in the end like Jesus, then you are preaching the perfectly newborn conversion of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

But if you mix it in any way with still sinning and walking after the flesh, then without repentance first, you pervert it with saved sinning.

The sinners gospel of believing unto eternal irrevocable salvation first, with some partial repentance following, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ to repent and go and sin no more.

Having a sinners reboot to childhood innocence, to now try and sin less, is Christian religion conversion only by faith alone. It's not the pure religion of Jesus Christ to be born all anew without spot as the child Jesus, and continuing walking with Him, in whom is no sin.

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

 

[Behold]

So long as we repent of sinning first, and overcome sinning in the end like Jesus,

We repent of unbelief.....
If we only tell God we are sorry we sinned, that is not the same as believing IN Jesus by Faith, which is to repent of unbelief.

Also, We are already "overcomers", by being Joined to God and Christ, Spiritually.
You can't be more of an "overcomer" then to be "IN CHRIST", .. "One With God".... for eternity.

 

[Ghada]

You are not a qualified judge of yourself, and therefore, any claims to be perfectly holy, righteous, and blameless are inappropriate.

I'm certainly more qualified than you, whose personal judgement of others is based solely upon your own life and defiled conscience.

Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

Here Paul acknowledges that it is Jesus, not himself, Who will judge him. When you judge yourself, you are only expressing your flawed opinions of yourself, but without full knowledge.

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Here we see you have nothing to do with the Bible in matters of judgment. This is why you teach Christian sinners are not judged with the world by their sinful works, and you judge all Christians by your own corrupt doctrine.

You believe, live, teach, and judge as you personally want in your Christian religion. That's fine by me, because I am a live and let Christian saints. I just have nothing to do with it, nor am I at all judged, persuaded, nor moved by it.

So, yes, you may be fully matured in the faith, and not committing sins, only, you won't truly know it, and therefore, we are to remain humble. Judging yourself "sinless" is purely hubris.

No, it's purely hypocrisy with them knowing they still sin, because they know they have not repented of sinning from the heart.

Christian sinners' vain accusations of hubris and arrogance against saints, are only acknowledgment of their own defiled and petty conscience.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

That's why you never judge yourself purely newborn of God with all things ever being all of God, and nothing of the devil.

At least you're not a hypocrite about your continued sinful Christianity. Although trying to separate your soul as clean from your continued sinning in life, is doctrinal hypocrisy and not of the Bible.

 

[Ghada]

We repent of unbelief.....

I've started a thread on those repent of unbelief in the one God, and yet do not believe all His words in the Bible. Like devils they now believe in the one true God, but also like devils they do not believe and do all His words, because of unrepentance.

Christian sinners do not believe in going to sin no more and sinning not.

If we only tell God we are sorry we sinned, that is not the same as believing IN Jesus by Faith, which is to repent of unbelief.

Which is to repent of sinning against God by word and deed.

Also, We are already "overcomers", by being Joined to God and Christ, Spiritually.

Not sinners overcome of temptation and sinning with the devil.

Inward faith alone, and righteousness alone and overcoming alone, are all dead without doing it.

Overcoming not believing there is one true God, is not overcoming still sinning against Him.

You can't be more of an "overcomer" then to be "IN CHRIST", ..

That's true. Overcoming all sinning and having no sin in Christ, in whom is no sin, is being holy as God is holy in all manner of conversion in soul, spirit, and body.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All the true words your preach, if mixed with still lusting and sinning after the flesh, becomes making the truth of God into a lie.

Just include repenting first and not sinning in Christ, and then you preach the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

"One With God".... for eternity.

One with God is first repenting and without sinning against God, and one with God for eternity is enduring temptation without sinning unto the end.

See how simple that is? With sinning, your gospel is a lie. With repentance from sinning, the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached in deed and in truth.

 

[marks]

I'm certainly more qualified than you, whose personal judgement of others is based solely upon your own life and defiled conscience.

I'm not making an unreasoned and derogatory statement against you, as you are of me.

1 Corinthians 4:3-6 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

This isn't some kind of contest between you and I, as you seem to want to make it.

it's purely hypocrisy

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

It's a quote with great unbelief of Christian sinners like you. You don't want to ever be pure born of God, because then you have no excuse not to live it. And you don't want to live it, because you don't want to repent of all your sinning.

It's why sinful Christians preach being born with sin from the cradle, so that their born again conversion is just a reboot a sinners now only seek to sin less. And they preach sinning to the grave, because they don't want to repent of sinning for life.

Simple enough.


So, you have jettisoned your former intellectual honesty in the face of simple scripture of truth.

Coming up with absurdum, is not showing up an argument ad absurdum.

Jesus in mortal flesh never walked through walls. If we don't walk on water, then it's just not the faith and ministry Christ gives us. They were healed by the passing shadow of Peter however.


The old tired ploy of making literal verses into parables only, to do away with the truth of the verses.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

No parable.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

No parable.



Merely. Good job God, but big deal.

Adam was born a son of God with pure heart and clean life in God's image. So it is with every man today created by Christ in His image and lightened by Him coming into the world.

Not as the Word coming down from heaven by commandment of the Father, but certainly being born pure as Christ with all things now of God, even as the babe Jesus from Mary's womb.

This of course is only by repenting of sinning first.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

This is the prophesied promise through the Son for every son of God born today, who do repent of sinning to believe and obey Him:

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This proves the prophetic words of Heb 1 of the Son coming in the flesh, also applies to the pure new born repented believers and sons in the Son Christ Jesus.

Your unbelief by an unrepented heart does not make it not so.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Reactionary name-calling rubbish. Squirm, squirm.

"A tree is known by its fruit."​

 

[ScottA]

Whatever. This stuff is fine to play with at times, but when you are disbelieving plain words of the Bible, it just becomes a philosophic insult to the words of God in the Bible.

The words of the scriptures/Bible are not literary, and therefore foolishness to the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:14

"The words that I speak to you are spirit"​