Will unbelievers never be saved?

[Wrangler]

I confess this OP is a challenge to our humility. Have we turned our Lord into an IDOL by holding fast to manmade doctrines that cannot withstand scrutiny? Our Lord and Savior is a man, not a doctrinal idol, yes? Most people, including Christians are exceedingly weak in logic. In this thread, I want to examine the often stated claim that you have to believe in Jesus to be saved from Scriptural evidence AND logic.

John 3:16 essentially saves if you believe in Jesus, you will be saved. In other words, it is a guarantee; if you do X, you will be saved. (I know this gnaws at layers of manmade IDOLATRY of it not being by our work that we are saved. This is merely a confusion of "work," in the general sense from "works" in the Biblical sense). But is the converse true?

What is the converse of a statement? When you reverse the subject and object.
TRUE STATEMENT: All square are rectangles.
CONVERSE: All rectangles are squares.

TRUE: All rectangles are NOT squares.​

NOTE: Single negative. 1 "not".​

TRUE STATEMENT: All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
CONVERSE: Those will NOT be saved who do NOT believe?

NOTE: Double negative. 2 "nots."​

I submit the converse is not true, just like with rectangles and squares. Scripture teaches those may be saved who are not believers of Jesus. Romans 2:

v6 (God) will judge everyone according to what they have done.​

NOTE: Not judged by what you do NOT believe but what you have done.​

​

v14-15 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. ​

This is consistent with Jeremiah 31:33, which invites another converse challenge. Just because God said in Jeremiah 31:33 that he will write his law on the hearts of the people of Israel does NOT mean he will NOT write it on the hearts of Gentiles.

Indeed, Romans 2:15 implies that God did write his laws on everyone's heart. Said differently, it is unjust to judge people by a law they were truly ignorant of. This logically follows from Romans 2:6 for one what rational basis could God judge everyone other than from the law he put in their own hearts?

This is ongoing revelation. In Jeremiah, God prophesied some of what he would do for Israel. In Romans, what he did is more fully revealed to apply to everyone.

So, this is the scriptural and logical basis to conclude that unbelievers may also be saved. In defense of the claim that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved (meaning unbelievers will not be saved), here is the challenge. Prove it! What Scripture and logical analysis supersedes what is presented here; what verse says unbelievers will NOT be saved?

Final point. Because we love image bearers of God, we encourage them to seek the guarantee of eternal life rather than rely on what is not guaranteed.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

 

[Hobie]

I confess this OP is a challenge to our humility. Have we turned our Lord into an IDOL by holding fast to manmade doctrines that cannot withstand scrutiny? Our Lord and Savior is a man, not a doctrinal idol, yes? Most people, including Christians are exceedingly weak in logic. In this thread, I want to examine the often stated claim that you have to believe in Jesus to be saved from Scriptural evidence AND logic.

Romans 10:9 essentially says that by believing Jesus was raised from the dead by God and declare Jesus is your master, you will be saved. In other words, it is a guarantee; if you do X, you will be saved. (I know this gnaws at layers of manmade IDOLATRY of it not being by our work that we are saved. This is merely a confusion of "work," in the general sense from "works" in the Biblical sense). But is the converse true?

What is the converse of a statement? When you reverse the subject and object.
TRUE STATEMENT: All square are rectangles.
CONVERSE: All rectangles are squares.

TRUE: All rectangles are NOT squares.​

NOTE: Single negative. 1 "not".​

TRUE STATEMENT: All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
CONVERSE: Those who do not believe will NOT be saved?

NOTE: Double negative. 2 "nots."​

I submit the converse is not true, just like with rectangles and squares. Scripture teaches those may be saved who are not believers of Jesus. Romans 2:

v6 (God) will judge everyone according to what they have done.​

NOTE: Not judged by what you do NOT believe but what you have done.​

​

v14-15 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. ​

This is consistent with Jeremiah 31:33, which invites another converse challenge. Just because God said in Jeremiah 31:33 that he will write his law on the hearts of the people of Israel does NOT mean he will NOT write it on the hearts of Gentiles.

Indeed, Romans 2:15 implies that God did write his laws on everyone's heart. Said differently, it is unjust to judge people by a law they were truly ignorant of. This logically follows from Romans 2:6 for one what rational basis could God judge everyone other than from the law he put in their own hearts?

This is ongoing revelation. In Jeremiah, God prophesied some of what he would do for Israel. In Romans, what he did is more fully revealed to apply to everyone.

So, this is the scriptural and logical basis to conclude that unbelievers may also be saved. In defense of the claim that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved (meaning unbelievers will not be saved), here is the challenge. Prove it! What Scripture and logical analysis supersedes what is presented here; what verse says unbelievers will NOT be saved?

Final point. Because we love image bearers of God, we encourage them to seek the guarantee of eternal life rather than rely on what is not guaranteed.

You can only be saved through Christ, there is no other, and yet we know that many will be saved that never read a single word of the Bible. So how is this possible, because in his mercy and grace, He reveals Himself and His truth in other ways. To Adam He spoke directly and even to Cain warning of the danger at his door because of the hatred rising within him, and Noah and Abraham and many others. But then we have those who believed like Job, who did nothing wrong and yet was tested and stayed faithful no matter what. Where did he learn the things of God, how could he have such faith, and all those outside of the chosen people. The holy men and prophets, Melchizedek, Jethro, Enoch and others, how were the things of God revealed to them and the coming Christ unveiled. God in His wisdom gave what was visions, knowledge, and understanding to reveal it to them as He does even today..

 

[O'Darby]

Wait a minute, the OP is the same character who snidely asked me if I was a Christian three days ago!

Now he sounds like he's been bathing in grape-flavored O'Darby Kool-Aid!

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

"Are you a Christian?"

Perhaps not such a simple question.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[RedFan]

John 3:16 essentially saves if you believe in Jesus, you will be saved. In other words, it is a guarantee; if you do X, you will be saved.

Matt 6:14 quotes Jesus is saying “For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.” Is forgiving others, without more, enough to be judged positively on Judgment Day and have our own sins forgiven? Matt. 6:14 -- like John 3:16 -- is unconditional, absolute, in the form “If X, then Y,” or as you might put it, it is a guarantee; if you do X, you will be forgiven.

But whether the converse is true or not, Matt. 6:14 suggests that John 3:16's converse is NOT true, i.e., you can be saved (by having your sins forgiven) even if you don't "believe in Jesus."

 

[FaithWillDo]

I confess this OP is a challenge to our humility.

Dear Wrangler,
The truth that is taught in God's Word is all mankind WILL come to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior before the final age comes to an end.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

It is wrong to assume that salvation is limited to this age. However, being saved as an Heir/First Fruit is limited to this age but salvation is not.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Those who receive a "reward" are the chosen Elect who are saved by Christ in this age. Their reward is to have life during the ages and to have the honor of reigning with Christ in the final age.

The problem for most believers is that they have a faulty foundation of truth. They have been taught that salvation only comes to a person when a person (from their own free will) decides to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord. This is not true. Salvation only comes to a person when Jesus Christ decides it is time to save them. For this reason, mankind's works do not play a role as to when a person is saved.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I'll explain this truth below.

Scripture says that no man can call Jesus "Lord" without first having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and that no man who has the Spirit can call Jesus accursed (reject Him).

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

This scripture is very profound but it is rejected by most believers.

Now, let's look at the Apostles as they relate to the Early and Latter Rain analogy taught in scripture.

When did the Apostles first call Jesus "Lord" and recognize Him as the Christ? Was it after they received the baptism of the Spirit (Latter Rain) on the Day of Pentecost or was it when they walked with Jesus in the flesh?

The answer, of course, is when they walked with Jesus in the flesh.

So how was that possible in the light of 1Cor 12:3 says?

The answer to that question is the Apostles, along with many other Jews at that time, were given the Early Rain of the Spirit just prior to their recognizing that Jesus was the Christ. With the Early Rain of the Spirit, the Apostles were given a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts (Luke 9:4-6). This is when the Apostles were called out from the world and became followers of Christ. However, they were not yet converted because they remained spiritually blind and carnal in their understanding of Him. They could not understand the spiritual teachings of Christ (Mark 8:21).

This truth is incredibly important when trying to understand the Early and Latter Rain concept as it relates to the pathway to salvation.

When Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit, Christ will only appear to them carnally and not spiritually. And because Christ is the Word of God, their understanding of the Word is also carnal. In other words, the new believer will only have the ability to see Christ "in the flesh". With this carnal understanding of Christ, the truth of God's Word will remain concealed.

Now consider this verse:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Scripture says that the group of people who receive the Early Rain of the Spirit and are called to be saints are "many". At that time, they can only see Christ carnally and not spiritually. For that reason, the churches in the world are places where the blind led the blind because they do not have the ability to understand the Word of God beyond "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2).

To make matters worse for new believers, the spirit of anti-Christ came into the church shortly after Paul's death. When it came, it did not spare any of the flock.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Since that time, the churches which the Apostles started became apostate. This all happened to satisfy God's purposes and not for any other reason.

For the believers in the apostate church who are chosen for an early salvation (harvest of First Fruits), they were chosen for this blessing not because of anything they ever did. They were simply chosen by God to satisfy God's own purposes for this creation:

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

To save the chosen apostate believers, Christ will come to them a second time before they die. This event is commonly called the Second Coming of Christ but it is not correctly understood by the apostate churches.

When Christ comes a second time to one of His Elect, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them. After they receive the baptism of the Spirit (like the Apostles did on the Day of Pentecost), their spiritual blindness will be healed. They will then be able to see Christ spiritually instead of carnally. With "eyes that can see", they will see the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves. When they see this "sign of the times", they are told to flee to the mountains (Mat 24:15) like Lot did because judgment is about to fall. After the Elect believer is judged, they will then be converted into a child of God.

To be converted, a person must be baptized by the Spirit (Latter Rain) and by Fire (judgment):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Because salvation requires both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8), Christ will only come a second time to His Elect. This is how Christ controls who among the "many" are saved now and who will die in their sins.

So what happens to the rest of mankind (including the apostate church)?

Upon their resurrection from the grave, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a symbol for Christ's judgment. This verse below applies to that judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The penalty of sin is death but before the "lost" perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to make the pathway straight for Christ to come to them. When Christ comes, He will give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit within them, they will be "born again". The new child of God will then be gathered up to heaven and the child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire for destruction (this satisfies justice). This spiritual process is called conversion.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be saved and will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

After the last person who has ever lived is saved, the ages will come to an end.

Joe

 

[Earburner]

I confess this OP is a challenge to our humility. Have we turned our Lord into an IDOL by holding fast to manmade doctrines that cannot withstand scrutiny? Our Lord and Savior is a man, not a doctrinal idol, yes? Most people, including Christians are exceedingly weak in logic. In this thread, I want to examine the often stated claim that you have to believe in Jesus to be saved from Scriptural evidence AND logic.

John 3:16 essentially saves if you believe in Jesus, you will be saved. In other words, it is a guarantee; if you do X, you will be saved. (I know this gnaws at layers of manmade IDOLATRY of it not being by our work that we are saved. This is merely a confusion of "work," in the general sense from "works" in the Biblical sense). But is the converse true?

What is the converse of a statement? When you reverse the subject and object.
TRUE STATEMENT: All square are rectangles.
CONVERSE: All rectangles are squares.

TRUE: All rectangles are NOT squares.​

NOTE: Single negative. 1 "not".​

TRUE STATEMENT: All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
CONVERSE: Those will NOT be saved who do NOT believe?

NOTE: Double negative. 2 "nots."​

I submit the converse is not true, just like with rectangles and squares. Scripture teaches those may be saved who are not believers of Jesus. Romans 2:

v6 (God) will judge everyone according to what they have done.​

NOTE: Not judged by what you do NOT believe but what you have done.​

​

v14-15 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. ​

This is consistent with Jeremiah 31:33, which invites another converse challenge. Just because God said in Jeremiah 31:33 that he will write his law on the hearts of the people of Israel does NOT mean he will NOT write it on the hearts of Gentiles.

Indeed, Romans 2:15 implies that God did write his laws on everyone's heart. Said differently, it is unjust to judge people by a law they were truly ignorant of. This logically follows from Romans 2:6 for one what rational basis could God judge everyone other than from the law he put in their own hearts?

This is ongoing revelation. In Jeremiah, God prophesied some of what he would do for Israel. In Romans, what he did is more fully revealed to apply to everyone.

So, this is the scriptural and logical basis to conclude that unbelievers may also be saved. In defense of the claim that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved (meaning unbelievers will not be saved), here is the challenge. Prove it! What Scripture and logical analysis supersedes what is presented here; what verse says unbelievers will NOT be saved?

Final point. Because we love image bearers of God, we encourage them to seek the guarantee of eternal life rather than rely on what is not guaranteed.

KJV John 3
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[MatthewG]

“Forgive them, LORD (Yahavah) they know not what they do.”

 

[FaithWillDo]

KJV John 3
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Dear Earburner,

Here is how to properly understand the scripture you quoted:

None of mankind can believe in Christ:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Because none of mankind (who are children of the devil) can believe in Christ, all mankind is condemned. That includes you and me.

Until Christ comes to a person (without their permission or asking Him to come) and gives them the Holy Spirit, no one can believe in Christ:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

And after Christ gives a person the Spirit, they will become a child of God. As a child of God, the only thing they will do is confess that Jesus is Lord.

Because all mankind is condemned, we are all at the mercy of Christ to save us. And as this verse below says, He will save us all:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

 

[Behold]

Scripture teaches those may be saved who are not believers of Jesus.

Jesus said that He is the only Way to the Father. John 14:6

@Wrangler just denied it.

Acts 16 says.... "all that believe in Jesus, shall be saved"..

@Wrangler ..... just stated .that is not True.

You are this. according to your own Thread.

Galatians 1:8

 

[O'Darby]

Most people, including Christians are exceedingly weak in logic.

Oh, the irony!

Converse logic simply flips the subject and predicate, to wit:

TRUE STATEMENT: All squares are rectangles.​

CONVERSE: All rectangles are squares.​

Oops, that didn't work, did it? Why? Because "In traditional syllogistics, generally only E (universal negative) and I (particular affirmative) propositions yield a valid converse." Converse | Argumentation, Reasoning, Validity

Thus (the example given in the above link):

TRUE STATEMENT: No man is a pencil.​

CONVERSE: No pencil is a man.​

Your square-rectangle attempt is simply not an example of a valid converse. Your Jesus example is likewise flawed:

TRUE STATEMENT: All who believe in Jesus will be saved.​

CONVERSE: Those will NOT be saved who do NOT believe.​

This is not a converse syllogism AT ALL.

A converse of your True statement is:

TRUE STATEMENT: All who believe in Jesus will be saved.​

CONVERSE: All who will be saved will believe in Jesus.​

Oops again – that DOES work, and is a valid converse syllogism, but isn't what you want to say.

Hey, if you want to say some may be saved apart from belief in Jesus, go for it! But don't chide others for their "weak logic" and try to force-fit converse logic into supporting your argument when it is clearly YOU who are "exceedingly weak" in logic.

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,

Here is how to properly understand the scripture you quoted:

None of mankind can believe in Christ:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Because none of mankind (who are children of the devil) can believe in Christ, all mankind is condemned. That includes you and me.

Until Christ comes to a person (without their permission or asking Him to come) and gives them the Holy Spirit, no one can believe in Christ:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

And after Christ gives a person the Spirit, they will become a child of God. As a child of God, the only thing they will do is confess that Jesus is Lord.

Because all mankind is condemned, we are all at the mercy of Christ to save us. And as this verse below says, He will save us all:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

And the bottom line for the truth of it all is Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rev. 20
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Wrangler]

The truth that is taught in God's Word is all mankind WILL come to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior before the final age comes to an end.

Honestly, this is not the point of the thread - and I think you know that.

I have a high post count because I tend to write short posts on point. I seldom read >12 paragraph posts.

 

[FaithWillDo]

And the bottom line for the truth of it all is Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rev. 20
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Dear Earburner,
The book of Life is for the Elect. If a person is not in the book of Life, they will go to judgment. But before they perish (the penalty of sin), Christ will give them mercy and faith. With faith, Christ will come to them and pour out the Holy Spirit which will give them the new birth.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ's judgment always contains mercy, faith and justice. Justice is satisfied by the destruction of the child of the devil. That is why salvation requires a person to be "born again". The child of the devil (all mankind) is condemned already. The only way to be saved is the become a new creation; a child of God, who is the only one who believes in Christ.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Honestly, this is not the point of the thread - and I think you know that.

I have a high post count because I tend to write short posts on point. I seldom read >12 paragraph posts.

Dear Wrangler,
Your thread title is:

Will unbelievers never be saved?​

That is the question I answered.

If you can't receive what I presented, that is between you and Christ. He is the one who heals spiritual blindness. I can only present the gospel which I have done.

Joe

 

[Wrangler]

KJV John 3
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How do you reconcile v17, that Jesus did not come to condemn the world with v18, some are already condemned for what they don’t believe?

 

[Wrangler]

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe,

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems you are invoking this verse to support universalism, AS IF God’s desire is no one shall perish means no one will perish. Is that right?

Peter

 

[Wrangler]

Dear Wrangler,
Your thread title is:

Will unbelievers never be saved?​

That is the question I answered.

I'm sorry but that is not true. You answered a different question that you must have thought took >12 paragraphs. LOL

 

[Wrangler]

I confess this OP is a challenge to our humility.

If you can't receive what I presented, that is between you and Christ.

Not too humble.

 

[FaithWillDo]

How do you reconcile v17, that Jesus did not come to condemn the world with v18, some are already condemned for what they don’t believe?

Dear Wrangler,
The verse does not say that "some" will be saved - it says that Christ came to save the world. As I pointed out in my first post, NO person of mankind has any ability to believe in Christ. We are all born into this world as children of the devil and sin frequently. Because of our sin, we are ALL condemned already. The only way to be saved is to be converted into a new creation; a child of God. Only the child of God has any faith in Christ because only the Holy Spirit can give it to them. Without the Spirit, we will remain condemned and unable to call Jesus "Lord":

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

So the question is: Is Christ going to freely give the Spirit to all mankind so that all will believe? The answer according to God's Word is YES.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Scripture says that God is love and that love never fails. Just from that scriptural truth alone, a person should be able to conclude that Christ is going to save all mankind. If Christ doesn't save all mankind, then He will fail to complete the mission His Father gave Him - and that would be a sin.

The issue for most believers is that they do not know and understand the plan that scripture reveals for Christ to accomplish the goal of saving the world.

Christ's plan for saving mankind will take TWO ages of time to complete. In this age, Christ is ONLY saving the people who God the Father chose from the foundation of the world. Christ saves this group of blessed individuals not because of anything they have ever done, but solely because it satisfies God's purposes for this creation.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

In the farming analogy used in scripture, this first group of people to be saved are called the "First Fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind. But because Christ loves all mankind, He is not going to leave the remaining crop of mankind to die in the field. He will harvest them into the Kingdom of Heaven at year's end (the end of the final age).

These two harvests of mankind are "typed" by the Feast of Weeks (First Fruits) and the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles):

Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

In the final age, the Elect will reign with Christ for the purpose of harvesting the balance of mankind. When the end of that age nears, Christ will make this call to the "lost":

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast (Ingathering), Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The last day of the Feast of Ingathering is called the "great day" because it foreshadows the complete and full harvest of mankind.

This same call is given a second witness in scripture - but this time the Elect are added to the call:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Elect are called the Bride of Christ in the marriage analogy used in scripture. That analogy teaches the pathway that Christ causes the Elect to travel to their salvation before they die. In the final age, Christ will use the Elect to assist Him in bringing in the full harvest of mankind. That is their purpose for reigning with Christ in the final age.

When Christ's mission is accomplished, He will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father and God will then be "all in all" (1Cor 15:20-28).

Joe