Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?

[Lambano]

That;s not true... according to God's Word.

Then who is it of whom Jesus says, "no man can pluck them out of My hand?"

And what does it REALLY mean to be "born again"?

 

[marks]

It’s not about proving each other wrong as I’m sure you are a Brother in Christ, your just confused , I can tell that, because you post Gods word out of context ....I’ve done the same....none of us are without error, Brother are we?

We just need to let God speak to us through his word and not our words.....we all Love God, everyone of us on this thread.....and we’re all seekers,xoxo

John 1:10-13 KJV
10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

In verse 12, "received" is in the active voice, meaning it is something the person does themself. "Believe" is also active voice, meaning the same thing.

John 3:8 KJV
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Here, "born" is in the passive voice, meaning it's an action that is done to the person.

In verses 15 and 16 we see the same thing, "whosoever believes", "believes" is again active voice, the person is themself doing the action.

We receive, we believe, and God gives us rebirth.

Back to 2:11, He came to His own, and His own received Him not, again, "received" is the active voice, they themselves did not receive Jesus.

Some do not receive Him, but those who do, again, God regenerates.

My understanding is that God shows Himself to us, He gives us the opportunity to believe, and to receive Jesus, but that unless we actually do, by our own choice, we will not be born again.

This is why Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5, urging, be reconciled to God.

Romans 5:11 LITV
and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

Again, "received" is active voice.

If God were causing us to receive Jesus, it would have to be in the passive voice, being recipients of the action, to be accurate. Being in the active voice, it puts that action on us. We receive Him.

I'm not speaking regarding how we perceive our experience of "being saved", how it seemed, only, how the Bible speaks of this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then who is it of whom Jesus says, "no man can pluck them out of My hand?"

And what does it REALLY mean to be "born again"?

I means you've been made alive in a new way being joined to God our Creator Himself. He lives, so we live. Eternally. And there is nothing that can force God to break that bond, and He says it's permanent. So who is it that will take you away from Him???

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Then who is it of whom Jesus says, "no man can pluck them out of My hand?"

Yes, no third party can pluck us out of His hand... but if WE turn and walk away... we are no longer saved.

The scriptures I posted are all instances where believers turned away from the Lord no longer allowing the Holy Ghost to lead them... and only those led by the Holly Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

 

[Lambano]

Yes, no third party can pluck us out of His hand... but if WE turn and walk away... we are no longer saved.

So being "Born Again" is meaningless?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, that's entering in to a personal relationship with the Lord when one sincerely believes in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confesses Him as their Lord having turned away from their sins putting off the old man and putting the New Man on which is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:24)

Problem is... some get born again, walk with the Lord for a time, and then take the New Man off... and puts the old man back on openly rejecting the Lord by their beliefs, their words, their thoughts, their actions, having turned away from the Lord refusing to be in that born again relationship with Him being led by His Spirit based on God's Word.

And some come along claiming those that turn away from the Lord are still saved which is false doctrine and encourages people to give in to sin and walk after the flesh "thinking" they are still saved as they think they have a license to sin!

 

[Lambano]

Since

• Paul refers to our receiving the Holy Spirit as just a "down payment" on our final inheritance (Ephesians 1:14);
• We will receive our imperishable, incorruptible pneumatikos bodies at the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:42-44);
• We will be like Jesus when He appears (1 John 3:2),

I could make a case that we become literally "Born of God" (1 John 3.9) at the Resurrection at the Second Coming.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I could make a case that we become literally "Born of God" (1 John 3.9) at the Resurrection at the Second Coming.

Yes later on... right now we walk by faith, not be sight (2 Corinthians 5:7)

 

[Lambano]

No, that's entering in to a personal relationship with the Lord when one sincerely believes in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confesses Him as their Lord having turned away from their sins putting off the old man and putting the New Man on which is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:24)

So, you see being "Born Again" as a metaphor or figure of speech for our relationship with Christ and not a real change in our own nature?

This isn't me playing "gotcha". I'm trying to pull out how people really understand what the phrase "Born Again" means. And I see two very different understandings here.

 

[marks]

but if WE turn and walk away...

Really? I don't see that. Paul wrote,

Romans 8:38-39 LITV
38) For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39) nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

Are you not a created thing?

That aside, you don't have the right to walk away from God. That would be to defy His decree of ownership. You are not your own to do with what you please, in particular to remove yourself from His ownership. You are a purchased possession under seal until the day He comes to collect what He owns.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit in you is God's seal of ownership of you. You don't get to choose those sorts of things. Only He does. And this is just one of a great many places where He announces His decree. He doesn't let anyone go.

And besides . . . who having actually met God would ever turn away from Him? The Bible says that those who "leave him" never actually knew Him, nor He them. That certainly makes sense to me!

And His promise to chasten His children, and that it results in righteousness, partaking of His holiness. Pure and simple, if you are His child, and you are outside of bounds, He will bring you back. His promise. Not mine, His.

And I can go on and on this way. The Bible is replete with His promises to His Own.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So, you see being "Born Again" as a metaphor or figure of speech for our relationship with Christ and not a real change in our own nature?

This isn't me playing "gotcha". I'm trying to pull out how people really understand what the phrase "Born Again" means. And I see two very different understandings here.

No, Jesus said unless one is born again they cannot see Kingdom of God (John 3:3)

This is being translated from darkness into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son (Colossians 1:13), where we become a new creature in Christ Jesus where old things have passed away and all things have become new (2 Corinthians 5:17)

 

[Ritajanice]

Because there is no scripture covering this specific topic. In fact, the only time Christian is even used in the Bible is in the book of Acts, where it is noted that it was at the church in Antioch that believers were first called Christians.

Now as to my statement, it is merely a simple application of logical reasoning:

A) to be born again requires you to follow Christ* (see below)
B) the word 'Christian ' means 'follower of Christ'

Therefore, if you are born again, you are de facto a Christian.

*John 3:5-15

5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]

Not true...Jesus has already explained to Nicodemus how we are Born Again..he explains it in the very top part of that scripture.

Jesus explains to Nicodemus in very simple terms how we are Born of the Spirit?

John 3​

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King James Version​

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3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Therefore imo you are misunderstanding that scripture.
A Christian is NOT Born Again...
You also aren’t logically Born Again...that is a Spiritual Living Rebirth.?
We don’t read the Bible “logically “ we read the Bible and understand through our spirit, because we have been Born of the Spirit?
Why is there no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus?

Romans 8​

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Ritajanice]

John 1:10-13 KJV
10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

In verse 12, "received" is in the active voice, meaning it is something the person does themself. "Believe" is also active voice, meaning the same thing.

John 3:8 KJV
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Here, "born" is in the passive voice, meaning it's an action that is done to the person.

In verses 15 and 16 we see the same thing, "whosoever believes", "believes" is again active voice, the person is themself doing the action.

We receive, we believe, and God gives us rebirth.

Back to 2:11, He came to His own, and His own received Him not, again, "received" is the active voice, they themselves did not receive Jesus.

Some do not receive Him, but those who do, again, God regenerates.

My understanding is that God shows Himself to us, He gives us the opportunity to believe, and to receive Jesus, but that unless we actually do, by our own choice, we will not be born again.

This is why Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5, urging, be reconciled to God.

Romans 5:11 LITV
and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

Again, "received" is active voice.

If God were causing us to receive Jesus, it would have to be in the passive voice, being recipients of the action, to be accurate. Being in the active voice, it puts that action on us. We receive Him.

I'm not speaking regarding how we perceive our experience of "being saved", how it seemed, only, how the Bible speaks of this.

Much love!

Do you actually understand Born Again of imperishable seed?

How can you hear being Born of the Spirit?

Spirit gives birth to spirit?....that is the rebirth..it’s a Living rebirth...you hear him testifying with our spirit that we are Gods children ,as he’s in dwells our spirit.taking up residence in our spirit?

Just as he explains to Nicodemus.....you can’t direct yourself on becoming Born Of The Spirit.

The Holy Spirit lives in your spirit does he not?

We know this because we have been “ Born Again “ of “ Imperishable seed”...what does that mean to you?

Why is there no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus?

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Ritajanice]

Nah. The Lost Sheep are the not-yet-Born-Again. The Born-Again sheep can never be lost.

Interesting..The Born Again can never be lost...I agree with you there.

 

[Ritajanice]

That;s not true... according to God's Word.

The folks spoken of in the verses were born again at one point

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Show me where the Born Again are mentioned in that scripture.

That scripture is not speaking to a “ Born Again “ if it were, God would use the word “ Born Again “....therefore imo...it’s your opinion ,that you think the Born Again can be lost....the Born Again always know in their heart that they are “ Born Of The Spirit “ do you actually believe the “ Born Again can hide from God?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

A Christian is NOT Born Again...

Did you just say that on a Christian talk forum??? Really?

I got news for ya... if you aren't born again, you ain't a Christian.

That scripture is not speaking to a “ Born Again “ if it were, God would use the word “ Born Again “....therefore imo...it’s your opinion ,that you think the Born Again can be lost....the Born Again always know in their heart that they are “ Born Of The Spirit “ do you actually believe the “ Born Again can hide from God?

I hope you get the help you so desperately need!

 

[Ritajanice]

Did you just say that on a Christian talk forum??? Really? View attachment 40678

I got news for ya... if you aren't born again, you ain't a Christian.



View attachment 40680

I hope you get the help you so desperately need!

This is a Christian forum,yes, some are searching for God...now once again, instead of voicing your confused opinion.
Show me where God says a Born Again is a Christian?

They aren’t, the two are different...a Born Again has been Born of the Spirit..our spirit has been Born Again...has your spirit been Born Again or you still a Christian? Like many are?

A Christian came from God....I came from God, now I am Born of the Spirit..my spirit is Born Again, therefore no longer a Christian...understand now?

A Christian is a name that we have been made to believe by some...that it means Born Again...it doesn’t, please read @Behold post he understands exactly what a Born Again is.

 

[Ritajanice]

We all came from God...we all need to be reconciled back to God , by having our sins forgiven by him...that is through becoming Born Again..

Can only happen when, he draws us to Jesus, he brings us to repentance/ Godly sorrow, he brings us to believe in the Name of Jesus, God initiates the whole process...my testimony ,belief and opinion .

 

[JBO]

We know this because we have been “ Born Again “ of “ Imperishable seed”...what does that mean to you?

The real question is what it means to you. Clearly if you are not a Christian, then, by definition, you are not a follower of Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

And what does it REALLY mean to be "born again"?

We know when we are Born Again because it’s our spirit that is Born Again, Spirit gives birth to spirit.

It’s not something you can read and believe in the intellect.

It can only be understood if you have been Born Again of imperishable seed....we then start growing in the Spirit...it’s taken yrs and yrs for me to grow and mature in Christ.....plus the Holy Spirit is the only one that can teach us to understand his word....those who are Born Again.

I was Born Again nearly 32 yrs ago....