Born Again or Christian? Is there a difference and what is your biblical support ?

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

@Ritajanice; @Red Baker; @JBO; @Scott Downey ;

I have brought this subject forward in a stand alone thread , as suggested by Rita.....from CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity
as that one seemed to be off in a new direction from the OP.. and because Rita as we all have very individual specific ideas about this subject.... and each of the mentioned have contributed today.

While basic random thoughts I will kick things off with these. (Overly simplistic, but is a start.)

Is the word "Christian" found in the Bible? | Sojourn Church of Spearfish, SD

I asked the question, "Is the word Christian found in the Bible?" during the sermon a few weeks ago, and the answer I gave was, "Yes, two times." I realized a

sojournspearfish.com

Is the word “Christian” found in the Bible?​

February 8, 2022

I asked the question, “Is the word Christian found in the Bible?” during the sermon a few weeks ago, and the answer I gave was, “Yes, two times.” I realized a couple days ago that my answer was wrong, and I should have checked my facts rather than relying solely on my memory.

The word “Christian” is actually found three times in the Bible, not two. Two times in the book of Acts, and once in 1 Peter.

So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians. (Acts 11:25-26)

And Agrippa said to Paul, “In a short time would you persuade me to be a Christian?” (Acts 26:28)

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. (1 Peter 4:16)

What’s interesting about all three of these occurrences is that the word “Christian” as a title or identifier doesn’t seem to be self-applied. Rather, it is non-Christians, unbelievers, people who do not follow Jesus, who are using the term to describe or identify Jesus’ disciples or followers.

The point I was making in the sermon was that the Apostle Paul never uses the term, at least in his letters that are included in the New Testament.

For Paul, the essence or core of Christianity was “union with Christ” or to be “in Christ,” and this is evident in all of his letters, from Romans to Philemon.
We’re currently working our way through Ephesians, and it’s clear that “union with Christ” is a major theme of that letter.
At some point in church history, Christians started using the term to describe themselves, and I’m not suggesting that we stop doing this, if that were even possible. The word “Christian” means “follower of Christ,” which is what we are, or should be. What I am suggesting is that we align our thinking with Paul and the New Testament, and start to think of our Christianity as being in union with Christ – Christ in us and we in Christ, as, for example, Paul wrote in Colossians 1:27 that “the riches of the glory of this mystery” is “Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

Since we have these 3 examples of the word in the Holy Bible what do you believe a person who says they are Christian, or a Christian mean?

Born again shall be addressed whenever you want to put it in.

 

[Ritajanice]

I used to use Christian growing up, I mean we all came from God didn’t we?

I didn’t even know what it meant, I just went along with the world and believed I was the same as other Christians...

Then in my thirties I became “ Born Again “ once that happened I just can’t relate to the Name Christian...of course it’s biblical “ Christian” then again so is “Born Again “. anyway if you want to research more on what a Christian is, that’s fine by me...I’ll observe and chime in as and when I believe it’s appropriate to....as I would like hear what others think a Christian is.....maybe I will then get a better understanding of the Name Christian.

 

[Arthur81]

@Ritajanice; @Red Baker; @JBO; @Scott Downey ;

I have brought this subject forward in a stand alone thread , as suggested by Rita.....from CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity
as that one seemed to be off in a new direction from the OP.. and because Rita as we all have very individual specific ideas about this subject.... and each of the mentioned have contributed today.

While basic random thoughts I will kick things off with these. (Overly simplistic, but is a start.)

Is the word "Christian" found in the Bible? | Sojourn Church of Spearfish, SD

I asked the question, "Is the word Christian found in the Bible?" during the sermon a few weeks ago, and the answer I gave was, "Yes, two times." I realized a

sojournspearfish.com

Since we have these 3 examples of the word in the Holy Bible what do you believe a person who says they are Christian, or a Christian mean?

Born again shall be addressed whenever you want to put it in.

"But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13 NRSV)

"Jesus answered him, 'Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.'” (John 3:3 NRSV) *The NRSV margin note on born from above is "or, born anew".

I prefer "born from above" because of how John uses the word elsewhere, and also by comparing vs 1:12,13 where it is made clear we are born by the will of God, not the will of man.

Th first I remember a point being made to ask "born again" instead of merely are you a "Christian" was in the 1970s. The purpose back then was to distinguish between 'Christians in name only' from the truly regenerate.

I tend to avoid the phrase as used today, 'born again', because of its use by fundamentalists and the Pentecostals and Charismatics in Africa.

Since we generally judge or discern an authentic Christian by their lifestyle, a profession of being a Christian is only words, unless backed up by the life. So I see no real advantage in this for using "born again" instead of merely Christian, for a true Christian had to be born again to be a Christian. If they are not a Christian they'd not know the point being made anyway.

 

[Writer]

A religious mind is always confused about the subject of being born again and comprehends not the spiritual understanding. Saul had to be knocked off his horse and follow God's word that leads to a born again experience, and then given a new name - Paul followed by a repented new life. The bible teaches clearly that Jesus is the baptizer of the Holy Spirit, because again the bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Christ. If you're born again, the spirt of Christ Lives in you and you now live as the temple of the Holy Spirit, and not the dwelling place of unholy spirits.

We were born with a birth name after the seed of our father, or rather, his nature. In the ancient Hebrew, name represented one's nature. In other words, we are all born after the "nature" of our father, and if you take that back, you will see that the true nature of our father is Adam, the Adamic nature. To enter the kingdom of heaven one must be "...Born again", that is, after the nature of Christ. To do that, our flesh must drown and be taken out of the way, Egypt at the red sea (the flesh), and then we can cross over to the other side and sing a new song. The slaves of Egypt (the sin nature) now entering the promised land and God's glory being shewn through God's "new" creation.

We are now free from sin, if we are born again, and free to walk in God's pleasure, magnifying the gifts of His spirit shining through us as His glory in us as a bright light shining in a dark place pointing towards the kingdom of heaven and showing the way...The Good News!

 

[Ritajanice]

Christians in name only' from the truly regenerate.

This I can relate to...I was Christian in Name...but, I was certainly unregenerate....that was until I was Born Again...then I was regenerated by God...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

only God can regenerate our spirit...that was once “ spiritually dead” alienated from God...

 

[Pearl]

@Ritajanice I was 'baptised' at seven weeks old, and was sent to Sunday school each week from a very early age. I attended church services with my Sunday school class and was 'confirmed' at the age of 11 or 12. During that time I had never once been made aware of needing to do anything else. I considered myself a Christian. When there was all the hoo-hah about Cliff Richard become a Christian I said so what.

And then like you, in my thirties somebody gave me a little booklet called, 'Journey Into Life'. After I read it I knew what was missing and it was that personal relationship with Jesus. I learned that it wasn't enough just to know about him I needed to know him in a personal way. I said the prayer at the end of the book. A couple of days later my son was 'Christened' and as I stood in church and said out loud, 'I turn to Christ, I repent of my sin, I renounce evil.' It made my decision real and I was truly born again. Spiritually born into God's family. There is no other way to become a Christian. The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to you and you make the choice - to choose life in Christ or to reject him.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I used to use Christian growing up, I mean we all came from God didn’t we?

I didn’t even know what it meant, I just went along with the world and believed I was the same as other Christians...

Then in my thirties I became “ Born Again “ once that happened I just can’t relate to the Name Christian...of course it’s biblical “ Christian” then again so is “Born Again “. anyway if you want to research more on what a Christian is, that’s fine by me...I’ll observe and chime in as and when I believe it’s appropriate to....as I would like hear what others think a Christian is.....maybe I will then get a better understanding of the Name Christian.

Great.

I have only one thought. You said
" I used to use Christian growing up, I mean we all came from God didn’t we?"

That needs a little qualification in that all human beings came from God yes, But we have Christians, Muslims, Jews and even Pagans that have been in the mix for as long as I can remember hearing of faiths other then my own.

But I agree we all came from God. Some with special purposes that were bestowed upon them for reasons only God knows and for what... and some that ... I hate to say it like this... as basic sheep, just following along.
Many certain that they were going to die and go to "heaven" because mom, dad, and the minister told them they would... and others generally assuming their loved ones, no matter how bad and sinful they were, made it through the pearly gates waiting for them.

I greatly fault the clergy for being so wishy washy on this subject. ( I am thinking of my grandmother, died in 1984 and a weekly church goer and never a cuss word would pass her mouth and never a drop of anything alcoholic... not even real vanilla for baking... and knowing she was most likely getting a "generic" sermon preached but she was calmly certain of her fate.)

She is an example of someone I would call a "good" Christian.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ritajanice I was 'baptised' at seven weeks old, and was sent to Sunday school each week from a very early age. I attended church services with my Sunday school class and was 'confirmed' at the age of 11 or 12. During that time I had never once been made aware of needing to do anything else. I considered myself a Christian. When there was all the hoo-hah about Cliff Richard become a Christian I said so what.

And then like you, in my thirties somebody gave me a little booklet called, 'Journey Into Life'. After I read it I knew what was missing and it was that personal relationship with Jesus. I learned that it wasn't enough just to know about him I needed to know him in a personal way. I said the prayer at the end of the book. A couple of days later my son was 'Christened' and as I stood in church and said out loud, 'I turn to Christ, I repent of my sin, I renounce evil.' It made my decision real and I was truly born again. Spiritually born into God's family. There is no other way to become a Christian. The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to you and you make the choice - to choose life in Christ or to reject him.

Thanks for your testimony ....everyone’s testimony is very different...I need to understand that...not everyone is Born Again like I was.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

"But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13 NRSV)

"Jesus answered him, 'Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.'” (John 3:3 NRSV) *The NRSV margin note on born from above is "or, born anew".

I prefer "born from above" because of how John uses the word elsewhere, and also by comparing vs 1:12,13 where it is made clear we are born by the will of God, not the will of man.

Th first I remember a point being made to ask "born again" instead of merely are you a "Christian" was in the 1970s. The purpose back then was to distinguish between 'Christians in name only' from the truly regenerate.

I tend to avoid the phrase as used today, 'born again', because of its use by fundamentalists and the Pentecostals and Charismatics in Africa.

Since we generally judge or discern an authentic Christian by their lifestyle, a profession of being a Christian is only words, unless backed up by the life. So I see no real advantage in this for using "born again" instead of merely Christian, for a true Christian had to be born again to be a Christian. If they are not a Christian they'd not know the point being made anyway.

Great.

But do you call them, or yourself a "born again " Christian or simply " born again?"

 

[Pearl]

Thanks for your testimony ....everyone’s testimony is very different...I need to understand that...not everyone is Born Again like I was.

So true, but until one is born again you're not a Christian even though you are a church goer and have had infant baptism.

 

[Ritajanice]

So true, but until one is born again you're not a Christian even though you are a church goer and have had infant baptism.

I think I’m starting to get the gist of what you are saying Pearl.or at least trying to.

 

[Pearl]

Great.

But do you call them, or yourself a "born again " Christian or simply " born again?"

I usually say I'm a born again Christian. I understand that both terms are not required but many people don't understand that going to church, believing in God/Jesus, being 'baptised as an infant, reading a bible or being brought up by Christians doesn't automatically make one a Christian although they might believe they are. My sister, who is a churchgoer, says she is alright as she is and doesn't want to be born again.

 

[Pearl]

I think I’m starting to get the gist of what you are saying Pearl.or at least trying to.

Sorry, what didn't you understand?

 

[Ritajanice]

God doesn’t say we must be a Christian to see the Kingdom of God.

God says we must be Born Again...we can’t add to Gods word, because it doesn’t make sense if we do.

God does not say anywhere in his word that we are Born Again Christian.

 

[Ritajanice]

Sorry, what didn't you understand?

God doesn’t say we are Born Again Christian.

Gods word says we must be Born Again...that is what I can relate to and understand, because it’s Gods word.

Nowhere in his word does he say you must be Born Again Christian to see the Kingdom of God.

We are also Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed again that makes perfect sense to me.because again it’s the word of God.

 

[Pearl]

God doesn’t say we must be a Christian to see the Kingdom of God.

God says we must be Born Again...we can’t add to Gods word, because it doesn’t make sense if we do.

God does not say anywhere in his word that we are Born Again Christian.

The term Christian was used in a derogatory term for the early followers of Jesus. They called themselves followers of the way but the term Christian stuck.

I would think that today anybody who goes to church would describe themselves as Christian - even the cults use that term. That is why the term born again Christian give a clearer meaning.

 

[Arthur81]

Great.

But do you call them, or yourself a "born again " Christian or simply " born again?"

No, I do not use the phrase "born again Christian" I let the words or life of the professor give me an idea their spiritual state. If I were to use any phrasing similar, I maybe would say I am a "Christian which means I was born from above" and then the first grace in my new born state is faith. My first act as a child of God, being born from above, is believing.

 

[amadeus]

I used to use Christian growing up, I mean we all came from God didn’t we?

I didn’t even know what it meant, I just went along with the world and believed I was the same as other Christians...

Then in my thirties I became “ Born Again “ once that happened I just can’t relate to the Name Christian...of course it’s biblical “ Christian” then again so is “Born Again “. anyway if you want to research more on what a Christian is, that’s fine by me...I’ll observe and chime in as and when I believe it’s appropriate to....as I would like hear what others think a Christian is.....maybe I will then get a better understanding of the Name Christian.

Perhaps [nearly] everyone in Christendom would call themselves a Christian, but how many are now, or are now striving to be "followers of Christ"? In my experience, not very many of all of those in the group. There is certainly a whole lot of lip-service given, but not many... from what I can see... people surrendering to Christ and striving with what they have to move more closely in his footsteps. Alone we certainly cannot approach really close to him for really without Him we can do nothing.

Ro 12:1	I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2	And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

But how...?

Mr 10:27

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Mt 7:7	Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mt 7:8	For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

 

[Ritajanice]

Perhaps [nearly] everyone in Christendom would call themselves a Christian, but how many are now, or are now striving to be "followers of Christ"? In my experience, not very many of all of those in the group. There is certainly a whole lot of lip-service given, but not many... from what I can see... people surrendering to Christ and striving with what they have to move more closely in his footsteps. Alone we certainly cannot approach really close to him for really without Him we can do nothing.

Ro 12:1	I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2	And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

But how...?

Mr 10:27

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Mt 7:7	Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mt 7:8	For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

This post makes perfect sense to me as well..Amen Brother, we can do nothing without the Spirit.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

We are also Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed again that makes perfect sense to me.because again it’s the word of God.

Agreed.

Perfect sense