Bullying

[aspen]

Some characteristics of bullies:

1. Shouting down opponents
2. Violence is routinely used in communication/actions
3. Stresses persuasion over truth.
4. Punishes detractors through demonization, mocking, sarcasm, labeling, leveling, and blaming
5. Equates power with truth

Is bullying a real problem or are people who point it out simply weak?

Have you been a target of bullying?

Have your children or love ones used bullying or been a target of bullying?

Does God fit the definition of a bully? Why or why not?

Do you use bullying to make your point?

Is there a difference between standing up for truth and bullying?

 

[Helen]

Thank you for that. Interesting :)
I liked you #4..especially. We seem to get some of that on the site haha!!
My old mum was a nagger...plus once in a while she would shout to get her point across.
I used to think that God was a an angry Father, just waiting for His kids to mess up. But a bully? No..what God does with us is for loves sake and for our good...much like a natural parent.

No, I don't think that people who point our bullying are the weak ones.
I think bully's are the weak ones...they bully and browbeat because they are insecure in themselves....because putting other people down, elevated themselves in their own ( small) minds.
Yes, I think there is a difference between 'standing up for the truth and
bullying.' The difference is the spirit behind it.
A bully wants/needs to be top dog, proved right and dominate.= self serving.
A person standing up for the truth, firstly has the other person's interest at heart,not their own....... if we have truth that someone else can't see yet...we desire to impart that light to them. We all want and need to come to the knowledge of the Truth.
If they resist..maybe I would say it another way...if still resisted ..I would back off....because TRUTH will speak for itself, it doesn't need me...God will get through to them in good time. A much different spirit than bullying to be proved right.

Just my two cents. :)

 

[aspen]

Thank you for that. Interesting :)
I liked you #4..especially. We seem to get some of that on the site haha!!
My old mum was a nagger...plus once in a while she would shout to get her point across.
I used to think that God was a an angry Father, just waiting for His kids to mess up. But a bully? No..what God does with us is for loves sake and for our good...much like a natural parent.

No, I don't think that people who point our bullying are the weak ones.
I think bully's are the weak ones...they bully and browbeat because they are insecure in themselves....because putting other people down, elevated themselves in their own ( small) minds.
Yes, I think there is a difference between 'standing up for the truth and
bullying.' The difference is the spirit behind it.
A bully wants/needs to be top dog, proved right and dominate.= self serving.
A person standing up for the truth, firstly has the other person's interest at heart,not their own....... if we have truth that someone else can't see yet...we desire to impart that light to them. We all want and need to come to the knowledge of the Truth.
If they resist..maybe I would say it another way...if still resisted ..I would back off....because TRUTH will speak for itself, it doesn't need me...God will get through to them in good time. A much different spirit than bullying to be proved right.

Just my two cents. :)

Thanks for your insight!
What is the proper response to a bully? Is an response effective? And actually, what is the goal of confronting a bully?

 

[Job]

What is the proper response to a bully?

Silence.

 

[aspen]

Silence.

Is it effective? What is your goal in relation to the bully and the behavior?

 

[Job]

Is it effective? What is your goal in relation to the bully and the behavior?

Yes, very effective.

My goal is to shut'um up. Bullies feed on our response to their behavior. With every response the bully grows more confident because he knows his words are doing damage. Simply walk away and the bully is left with a mouth full of insults that sour over time until he can't stand being ignored, so he to leaves.


k

 

[aspen]

Yes, very effective.

My goal is to shut'um up. Bullies feed on our response to their behavior. With every response the bully grows more confident because he knows his words are doing damage. Simply walk away and the bully is left with a mouth full of insults that sour over time until he can't stand being ignored, so he to leaves.


k

I agree with you on this. It requires a special type of discipline to avoid the hook of all bullies, which is their invitation to prove them wrong or expose them.

 

[ScottA]

Some characteristics of bullies:

1. Shouting down opponents
2. Violence is routinely used in communication/actions
3. Stresses persuasion over truth.
4. Punishes detractors through demonization, mocking, sarcasm, labeling, leveling, and blaming
5. Equates power with truth

Is bullying a real problem or are people who point it out simply weak?

Have you been a target of bullying?

Have your children or love ones used bullying or been a target of bullying?

Does God fit the definition of a bully? Why or why not?

Do you use bullying to make your point?

Is there a difference between standing up for truth and bullying?

I think I am beginning to despise the whole bullying thing as it has been used recently. It seems to have become a tool for liberal political correctness or something - can't quite put my finger on it.

Do I like bullying? No. Would I stand against it? Yes. Do I think we have a version of it going on right here on the boards? Yes and No.

What I would call what goes on here, is, railroading: a blatant disregard for truth or reason to push an agenda at all costs...as if the loudest person wins.

But I believe that such behavior is its own red flag...and we do know - they don't win in the end. Alleluia!

 

[Helen]

( re Silence) Is it effective? What is your goal in relation to the bully and the behavior?

Firstly I usually fall into the trap. I take people on face value unless proved otherwise. So I start out answering the posts...it takes me a while to 'get there'...like the man at Bethesda " While I was coming another stepped into the water first."
It takes a while for me to 'clue-in'. @Job usually 'get's it much quicker than I do.
Once I 'pick-up' on another spirit , I then try to expose, then back off.
Why waste time. We've had some of late on the site.

(But with those that we are familiar with, I don't discern the same 'false-spirit'. ) I feel they enjoy it as young boys like rough-housing and wrestling. It sounds hostile sometimes, but I don't feel that it really is.

The reason I involve ...is in thinking ( probably foolishly) that maybe, just maybe, I will say something that God can use to speak to them in some kind of balance. But really that is all 'hot air', and it just falls to the ground and rolls off the into the corner of the screen, not making a blip! :)
One always hopes for redemption in both fellowship and relationship.
But I haven't seen that really work on a dogmatic bully that has his/her mind already made up.
Bottom line..I see a great difference between a bully who is "top- dogging- it", and wants to have the very last word...than a divisive spirit that tries to pull down, destroy peace, and challenge faith. That is a totally different kind of bully!! That is the slippery kind..
Like Job said..silence/ignore works best of all....with no audience, that spirit gets hungry, so has to find a different home for it's bully-food.
Job usually gets there first...but I am close on his heels in 'getting-there' and sniffing out the thing. :)

 

[aspen]

I think I am beginning to despise the whole bullying thing as it has been used recently. It seems to have become a tool for liberal political correctness or something - can't quite put my finger on it.

Do I like bullying? No. Would I stand against it? Yes. Do I think we have a version of it going on right here on the boards? Yes and No.

What I would call what goes on here, is, railroading: a blatant disregard for truth or reason to push an agenda at all costs...as if the loudest person wins.

But I believe that such behavior is its own red flag...and we do know - they don't win in the end. Alleluia!

Yes. I think railroading or polemics is an accurate assessment of what occurs on this board in some instances. I am interested in an example of liberal bullying - I am asking in good faith - I am liberal so I tend to be blinded by my own viewpoints. I certain agree bullying is employed by all sides.

 

[aspen]

Firstly I usually fall into the trap. I take people on face value unless proved otherwise. So I start out answering the posts...it takes me a while to 'get there'...like the man at Bethesda " While I was coming another stepped into the water first."
It takes a while for me to 'clue-in'. @Job usually 'get's it much quicker than I do.
Once I 'pick-up' on another spirit , I then try to expose, then back off.
Why waste time. We've had some of late on the site.

(But with those that we are familiar with, I don't discern the same 'false-spirit'. ) I feel they enjoy it as young boys like rough-housing and wrestling. It sounds hostile sometimes, but I don't feel that it really is.

The reason I involve ...is in thinking ( probably foolishly) that maybe, just maybe, I will say something that God can use to speak to them in some kind of balance. But really that is all 'hot air', and it just falls to the ground and rolls off the into the corner of the screen, not making a blip! :)
One always hopes for redemption in both fellowship and relationship.
But I haven't seen that really work on a dogmatic bully that has his/her mind already made up.
Bottom line..I see a great difference between a bully who is "top- dogging- it", and wants to have the very last word...than a divisive spirit that tries to pull down, destroy peace, and challenge faith. That is a totally different kind of bully!! That is the slippery kind..
Like Job said..silence/ignore works best of all....with no audience, that spirit gets hungry, so has to find a different home for it's bully-food.
Job usually gets there first...but I am close on his heels in 'getting-there' and sniffing out the thing. :)

Ok so I really enjoyed your response and I want to address several points.

1. You mentioned that it takes you a while to catch on to the spirit of the bully - this is interesting and I think it illustrates a difference between polemics or agenda-focused communication and simply dialogue. I have engaged in both types on this board. In the past, I tried to be a 'reasonable pundit' for Catholicism. My assumption was that all people wanted more knowledge and if I could give them clear and accurate knowledge about the RCC they would be thankful and either respectfully agree with me or respectfully disagree. My assumption was based on my experience (of course), I once had inaccurate views about Catholicism and then, I learned new information that pursauded me to investigate the church and pray about it. Where I went wrong in my thinking was to assume that other people are as ignorant about Catholicism as I once was. Also, I assumed that people are persuaded by information. Neither ideas are true. My respect for people's knowledge base, pathway to changing their mind, and reason for belief has improved over the years.

2. You mentioned the difference between the bully you know and the stranger. I have adopted this distinction at times, but recently, I have questioned it. I recognize today, a 'rough and tumble' person with my point of view, is often someone's else's bully. Trump is a hero to many Americans. I have been forced to look at the bullying behaviors of the person rather than their tribal affiliation, when making a personal assessment. Just because someone is Catholic for example, doesn't mean I should blind myself to abhorrent behavior.

3. You mentioned getting hooked by the bully into believing 'if they just knew' they would stop bullying. Yep. I get it and I definitely get hooked. Unless I am able to step back, and recognize that the person is valuing ideas, polemics, being right, over neighbor, and that I am called to do the opposite; I get hooked into a battle of wills, using information as ammunition in order to be 'right'.

4. You talked about different kinds of bullies. I am not sure I agree. I think all bullies pretend to be pushing a shared agenda and fain loyalty to a cause or doctrine, but when everything gets boiled away, they are really about dictating control; whether it is how the 'shared' doctrine is interpreted or who gets membership into the 'club' they are promoting - they usually assert their right to be the 'decider'.

Thanks for your post!

 

[ScottA]

Yes. I think railroading or polemics is an accurate assessment of what occurs on this board in some instances. I am interested in an example of liberal bullying - I am asking in good faith - I am liberal so I tend to be blinded by my own viewpoints. I certain agree bullying is employed by all sides.

A couple of examples of "liberal bullying" would be the use of guilt, personal attacks, or projecting ones own faults on the other party in order to appear to have the upper hand.

 

[aspen]

A couple of examples of "liberal bullying" would be the use of guilt, personal attacks, or projecting ones own faults on the other party in order to appear to have the upper hand.

True. Liberals often accuse the opposition of moralizing and demanding everyone to adhere to their doctrine; while failing to recognize that they have doctrines as well.

 

[DPMartin]

Some characteristics of bullies:

1. Shouting down opponents
2. Violence is routinely used in communication/actions
3. Stresses persuasion over truth.
4. Punishes detractors through demonization, mocking, sarcasm, labeling, leveling, and blaming
5. Equates power with truth

Is bullying a real problem or are people who point it out simply weak?

Have you been a target of bullying?

Have your children or love ones used bullying or been a target of bullying?

Does God fit the definition of a bully? Why or why not?

Do you use bullying to make your point?

Is there a difference between standing up for truth and bullying?

most Americans (can't speak for other western culture countries but I suspect its the same there also) have been taught that they can't be treated with correction only warm and fuzzy. and all medicine should be with a spoon full of sugar.

anger rage infuriation are a part of this life, and fragile personalities can't handle it. its the same as the dummy down policies of education.

in the service a drill sergeant is to be a pushy rude and in your face as possible. not to get your attention though that helps, its to find out if you can take all comers and remain focused on the task at hand.


just look at how debates pan out the subject is lost, why? because some one found a way to upset the other. if the Truth is said to you and you refuse to believe the Truth, because the messenger wasn't nice to you polite to you gave you some feel goods then you loss. the messenger still knows the Truth and is still rejoicing therein while you die from your own judgements.

 

[aspen]

Was Jesus a drill Sargent?

 

[DPMartin]

Was Jesus a drill Sargent?

no of course not, but no one is required to feed you a spoon full of sugar to get you to believe the Truth of God.

again you show that a Christian in your judgement shouldn't be like, or should be like, but the truth is you don't really know Jesus do you? so how is it you know what a Christian should be like if you don't know what Jesus is like?

the Israelites are still God's People and look at what they have been through when they refuse to respond to His will. God's correction or make you see it His Way can cost more then one has. and no drill sergeant is that ruff, is he?

what I have noticed about people that do what you do in this case is see if they can manipulate the guilt of the Christian to his own rule over that person's view of himself. but the true believer seeks God's approval not yours, and again the messenger has, but you have not because of your own judgement, and that will always result in separation from God, which is death.

 

[tabletalk]

Firstly I usually fall into the trap. I take people on face value unless proved otherwise. So I start out answering the posts...it takes me a while to 'get there'...like the man at Bethesda " While I was coming another stepped into the water first."
It takes a while for me to 'clue-in'. @Job usually 'get's it much quicker than I do.
Once I 'pick-up' on another spirit , I then try to expose, then back off.
Why waste time. We've had some of late on the site.

(But with those that we are familiar with, I don't discern the same 'false-spirit'. ) I feel they enjoy it as young boys like rough-housing and wrestling. It sounds hostile sometimes, but I don't feel that it really is.

The reason I involve ...is in thinking ( probably foolishly) that maybe, just maybe, I will say something that God can use to speak to them in some kind of balance. But really that is all 'hot air', and it just falls to the ground and rolls off the into the corner of the screen, not making a blip! :)
One always hopes for redemption in both fellowship and relationship.
But I haven't seen that really work on a dogmatic bully that has his/her mind already made up.
Bottom line..I see a great difference between a bully who is "top- dogging- it", and wants to have the very last word...than a divisive spirit that tries to pull down, destroy peace, and challenge faith. That is a totally different kind of bully!! That is the slippery kind..
Like Job said..silence/ignore works best of all....with no audience, that spirit gets hungry, so has to find a different home for it's bully-food.
Job usually gets there first...but I am close on his heels in 'getting-there' and sniffing out the thing. :)

One issue might be: is this bully a Christian? If he or she is bullying you, maybe silence will work and the person should then ask for forgiveness from you. If silence does not work and the the bullying continues, I think accusing your brother/sister of sin in private is called for. I think we are called to be reconciled to each other. Not easy to do.

 

[pia]

the truth is you don't really know Jesus do you? so how is it you know what a Christian should be like if you don't know what Jesus is like?

I have encountered Him a few times, and I can absolutely truthfully tell you that He is anything BUT a bully. As a matter of fact, so many things pastors tried to tell me over the years, have absolutely given the impression that God is always angry at us and finding fault....No so ! We don't understand His Love, I didn't either, and it took Him decades to where I understood Gods IS LOVE ! Not like our best human love, MUCH higher and purer than that...

 

[aspen]

Practicing our sanctification

 

[aspen]

most Americans (can't speak for other western culture countries but I suspect its the same there also) have been taught that they can't be treated with correction only warm and fuzzy. and all medicine should be with a spoon full of sugar.

I think people get defensive at times; does enforcing your will work better? It seems to me that presenting your point of view is fine, but enforcing your will and then, attempting to annihilate a person who resists is counterproductive. Unless, it is your purpose to be right, rather than cultivate a relationship with your neighbor. It is indeed ok, to allow a brother/sister to hold a POV you recognize to be wrong - God does it for us every single day.

anger rage infuriation are a part of this life, and fragile personalities can't handle it. its the same as the dummy down policies of education.

It sounds like you like it this way. I choose not to live my life angry, rageful, or infuriated. In fact, I believe they are all examples of roadblocks to loving others, which I am called to practice, daily. Righteous indignation does great damage to the spirit, and does nothing to motivate others or convince them of your point of view. Instead, it promotes compliance (if you are in authority) without conviction.

Our education system has not been weakened by giving everyone a trophy. It has been damaged by parents who do not support teachers, low wages, and societies focus on teaching the answers without considering the questions. Consumerism does not need an educated populous.

in the service a drill sergeant is to be a pushy rude and in your face as possible. not to get your attention though that helps, its to find out if you can take all comers and remain focused on the task at hand.

Which works to produce outward conformity and gives soldiers survival skills. Jesus didn't teach survive skills - he taught us peace in the face of war - he fought the battle for us through the ultimate surrender. We are called to love in the face of hate. Human pissing contests are worldly - they will continue until the end; our business is to love not add to the contention. We are the medics, not the soldiers.

just look at how debates pan out the subject is lost, why? because some one found a way to upset the other. if the Truth is said to you and you refuse to believe the Truth, because the messenger wasn't nice to you polite to you gave you some feel goods then you loss. the messenger still knows the Truth and is still rejoicing therein while you die from your own judgements.

Threads wander off topic because shouting down an opponent gets you nowhere but angry. I thought the boards were for sharing information and opinions, not winning/losing. jesus didn't tell his disciples to stick around and argue when they faced disagreement - they were to dust off their feet and move on. State the truth and go. 'Go forth mocking and scoffing; heal the sick and forgive sin, with anger, rage and infuriation! Annihilate your opponents with the love of a drill sergeant; outward compliance to will is the goal!' are not the messages we are supposed to be getting from the gospel.