Calling all Protectors of Truth!

[aspen]

It's a two-edged sword. What's not to like?

Huh?

 

[ScottA]

Huh?

I don't like it either...and there is certainly nothing wrong with saying so. But we shouldn't be surprised:

Matthew 10:34
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[aspen]

I don't like it either...and there is certainly nothing wrong with saying so. But we shouldn't be surprised:

Matthew 10:34
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Yeah....so how does that apply to prideful preaching?

 

[ScottA]

Yeah....so how does that apply to prideful preaching?

Is that the topic then? I thought it was just the division and the quarreling.

Anyway...we don't have to like it, nor should we, but everything has purpose:

Ecclesiastes 3
3 To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:

2 A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

 

[aspen]

Is that the topic then? I thought it was just the division and the quarreling.

Anyway...we don't have to like it, nor should we, but everything has purpose:

Ecclesiastes 3
3 To everything there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:

2 A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
3 A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
4 A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
7 A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
8 A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

Com’mon Scott,

Ecclesiastes is a book musing about the vanity of humankind.

Jesus calls us to love even our enemies, remember?

 

[DPMartin]

AKA Ego Warrior; Lord of the Pissing Contest; Pantser of Narcissists.

Are we called to go forworth and win at all costs? Blungeon our neighbor with our opinion about the Truth? Heal the wrong with our Right? Harrass the goats with vain reform all the way to Hell? Double down on doctrine over the welfare of neighbor?

Zealous Christians are always ego warriors - cause who’d want to be a snowflake, right?

Christians love to defend the truth; I would love to see more advocate for their neighbor made in God’s image. The Truth can take care of itself - meanwhile our neighbors are getting pummeled.....

We need more Mr. Rogers; less James White

mr rogers was creepy and weird at best.

no one defends the Truth, the Truth remains no mater men's thoughts and ways. but to stand by it as though the Truth is greater then what you think, or that someone be faithful to the Truth, is by your posting here, a foreign concept to you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What we need more of is UNDERSTANDING!
Scripture is FULL of:
MEN..Flat out rejecting God.
MEN..who learned, believed, trusted the Lord.
MEN..teaching about the Lord.
MEN...who were Learning about the Lord.
MEN...deciding to believe or not in the Lord.
MEN...who listened, followed, then stopped.
MEN...who believed but didn't yet Trust.
MEN..who believed but had not committed.
MEN...who were being taught how to Trust.

Today is no different.
EXCEPT THAT:
MEN...in Scripture teaching were armed with the TRUTH.
MEN...today teaching are OFTEN armed with opinions and LACK of UNDERSTANDING!

The Scripture IS FULL of all different individual men....AND NOT ALL THINGS in Scripture APPLY the same to EVERY MAN.

The MAN who rejects God, who doesn't trust, God, who believes BUT has not become Converted, ARE not the SAME as a man WHO Believes and HAS become forgiven, saved, born again, made Whole, and acceptable to God.
The SAME Scriptures DO NOT APPLY to ALL men!!!

It does NOT MEAN ALL SCRIPTURE IS NOT TRUE. ALL Scripture IS TRUE. BUT NOT ALL SCRIPTURE APPLIES THE SAME TO ALL MEN.

YOU apply to you, what you have been taught.

Others, such as myself, APPLY to myself, according to WHAT I have DONE, and what I TRUST the Lord has accomplished IN ME.

The SAME Scriptures DO NOT APPLY to you and to myself.

You honestly believe YOUR Salvation will be accomplished at the end of your physical life.
That you MUST accomplish certain WORKS to receive YOUR Salvation.

That IS precisely taught in Scripture BY "GOD" the father; and APPLIES to Jews....then and today.

I however DID not SUBJECT myself to thee JEWISH GOD, the "FATHER". I subjected myself TO: Jesus, the Lord, the Son of God, thee Christ, thee Messiah of God the Father.

He; Thee Christ the Lord Jesus; OFFERED Jews and Gentiles a WAY, to BECOME Forgiven, SavED, Born Again, and Freed FROM SIN....FOREVER, being Kept WITH "HIM"!!

I accepted HIS OFFERING!
I subjected MYSELF "TO" HIM.
I TRUST His Word IS TRUE, without question.

So ALL the Scriptures YOU run and grab THAT APPLY TO YOU.....DO NOT APPLY TO ME!

It does not MAKE you right and everyone else wrong and a liar.

It simply MAKES OUR Choices DIFFERENT, and the Applicablility of Scriptures DIFFERENT.

Jesus DID NOT DESTROY THE LAW. Jews today STILL (not all), subject themselves TO God the Father, and reject Jesus is the Lord and Christ Messiah. They STILL sin, they repeatedly require forgiveness. They WORK their way TOWARD Salvation.

You teach the same things.

But unlike you, SOME People have Subjected themselves TO the TRUTH, who IS Jesus Christ the Lord, and TRUST, a Conversion Accompolished BY HIM, IS Accomplished, according to HIS WORD.

Accept it! You make your choices, as does everyone else. And "Scripture dictates the results" of an individuals choices, not you.

Maybe you should switch to decaf . . .

 

[Taken]

Maybe you should switch to decaf . . .

Maybe you should not concern yourself with men who choose to Submit themselves "TO" Christ the Lord Jesus and What "HE" accomplishes "IN" a man.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Maybe you should not concern yourself with men who choose to Submit themselves "TO" Christ the Lord Jesus and What "HE" accomplishes "IN" a man.

You can spew your verbose rants, hepped-up on caffeine all day long - but you'll STILL be wrong.

You've been wrong on just about every point on every thread on t hie forum because of ONE thing:
You chose to follow the flawed teachings of MEN instead of trusting in Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Com’mon Scott,

Ecclesiastes is a book musing about the vanity of humankind.

Jesus calls us to love even our enemies, remember?

You are conveniently leaving out that Jesus also said "Put your sword in it's place" at one time, but also another time "he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one"...very much just like the words of Ecclesiastes.

But will you now concede the matter, or depart?

 

[Helen]

For me, there is a difference with defending truth and being truth. It may just be me, but I view defenders of truth as mere fans. They are armchair players of truth - full of opinion and bravado. Busying themselves with shouting alarms about the naked emperor. Jesus was pure true self - he had no perspective or opinion about how He lived because He was pure life. When he confronted hypocrites (fans), I think He was sincerely shocked and dismayed about their duplicity - hypocrisy is baffling to a person who has never experienced it in themselves......yes, Jesus is God, but he was in a humbled state and knowing another person’s heart does not mean understanding it by personal experience. I think Jesus acquired full understanding of sin on the Cross when His father looked away. Hope this makes sense - it is important for my understanding of the Christian life.

Agree, Good post. I don't think I have seen this thread before...I only just stumbled upon it!
There is a great difference between peacefully standing in The Truth, and fighting for the truth ( arguing)
As you say...God is well able to to look after all that He is...He doesn't 'need' mere man to stick up for Him..that is stupidity itself.
We are not called to be guardians of the Truth...but to let our/His light shine. Light does not need fighting for.
Truth can only be seen by The Spirit...other than that it is nothing but Facts.
Pride of man is the enemy of truth.

Pilate asked Him " What is Truth?"...He stood before them and answered not a word.
Truth is seen, ....period.

Bless you...H

 

[bbyrd009]

Agree, Good post. I don't think I have seen this thread before...I only just stumbled upon it!

me too! wasn't in new posts yesterday, or any days before either!

 

[Helen]

me too! wasn't in new posts yesterday, or any days before either!

Agree, I wonder what else we have missed ? Hummmm

 

[Taken]

You can spew your verbose rants, -up on caffeine all day long -

I certainly do not expect you to comprehend a thing I say, or Scripture.

And By the way....A coffee caffeine upper all day long...LOL....

How do you come up with all your false innuendos....Psychic or a Peeping tom...?

but you'll STILL be wrong.
You've been wrong on just about every point on every thread on t hie forum because of ONE thing:
You chose to follow the flawed teachings of MEN instead of trusting in Christ.

Pot calling the Kettle black...how amusing!!

LOL

I'm RIGHT WITH my Lord, my God, my Father.

You're right with your father, a man, your pope.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I certainly do not expect you to comprehend a thing I say, or Scripture.
And By the way....A coffee caffeine upper all day long...LOL....
How do you come up with all your false innuendos....Psychic or a Peeping tom...?

EASY.
Just go back are read your verbose rants sometime when you're NOT hopped up on Caffeine.

They read like like an angry auctioneer on speed . . .

Pot calling the Kettle black...how amusing!!
LOL
I'm RIGHT WITH my Lord, my God, my Father.
You're right with your father, a man, your pope.

Hey - if following the teachings of MEN instead of God floats your boat - have at it.
I'll stick with Christ and His Church . . .

 

[Taken]

EASY.
Just go back are read your verbose rants sometime when you're NOT hopped up on Caffeine.

They read like like an angry auctioneer on speed . . .

Hey - if following the teachings of MEN instead of God floats your boat - have at it.
I'll stick with Christ and His Church . . .

WOW. On a thread about protectors of TRUTH, and true to form, all you can do is spout your made up lies.

UGH!

 

[Taken]

I don't like it either...and there is certainly nothing wrong with saying so. But we shouldn't be surprised:

Matthew 10:34
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I have come to give peace on earth?
I tell you NAY: but rather DIVISION!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

WOW. On a thread about protectors of TRUTH, and true to form, all you can do is spout your made up lies.

UGH!

Whatever you say, dude . . .

 

[brakelite]

1. There is a difference between yourself and a person like Phoneman, for example - if you think about it, many people who point out things they do not like in Catholicism are attacking the church, not looking out for the welfare of Catholic members.

2. No offense (seriously), but you would have to be complete idiot as a Catholic member to not have heard the information you seem to believe we have never heard about!. If a person has spent any amount of time on this board, they have encountered the critical information countless times.

Oh, I am sure I could present plenty of information no-one here has heard about. What I present here is the bare minimum, because even in some older members, attention spans are minimal...as well as not wanting to inundate the board with stuff no-one cares enough about to bother with. But just a taste here and there is, it is hoped, will pique interest.
Yet from the responses I get at least, when I clearly reveal the criteria for identifying the Antichrist for example as being fulfilled within the Catholic system, though people may have heard it before, because their church says and teaches different, then the response is always negative. Yet the vast majority of Protestants reject what I write about also...but that's another story...and another bee in my hat. So I attempt to present the same information from different perspectives. I am ever the optimist. One day, perhaps, someone may see and understand as I do. It seems to me that they see things only through the eyes of their Catholic masters.
I have read much of Phoneman's contributions, and I agree with 95% of what he offers...I am not one however to doubt his motives. I don't believe any genuine reformer, from the days of Tyndale or Wycliffe to today, attacks Catholicism with the intent of attacking individuals within the system. On the contrary, as God calls His people 'out of her', (Revel.18) so also do we feel it our calling to give the same message...in fact, that message is for people to give to their fellow man. Where else in these last days is such a message being given, other than to call God's people out of a system that He is about to destroy? But then, for me to attempt to claim there are no Protestants with the same unkind belligerent spirit as some on the board I could name would be a little naive.

Ironically, the most uninformed Catholics are former members who get saved in Protestant churches and become armchair critics - many examples post here on this board.

Now that is interesting. I am probably of that class, or at least was. When I left Catholicism it wasn't because of a study of scripture or Catholic doctrine. I had over 20 years of Catholic education under my belt, both formal and informal, and after being born again (not in connection with any church)my first instinct was to return to my roots, and that is what I did. Come Sunday morning bright and early and dressed appropriately, I fronted up to church for the first time in about 8 or 9 years. Two weeks in a row. Up to that point in my life, I had never read a Bible, nor owned one. Nor did my family. So I would not have been in the position to answer any doctrinal questions, nor did I even know I had been born again, nor knew that what I had experienced was in fact described in scripture. And God knew that. So He used other means to guide me in those early days. Conscience. Intuition. Instinct. Call it what you will, but the spirit in me was repulsed by the attitude of the priest to my confession of faith when I spoke to him, and the spirit generally in the church I attended briefly found no peace or sense of commonality or interest in the proceedings nor in the people I tried to introduce myself to.
But since then, I have learnt a great deal. I have learnt more about what Catholicism teaches and its roots of doctrine than I ever learned previously. Why? Because I wanted to know why God turned me away so decidedly in the beginning. Am I now an expert in canon law and Catholic doctrine? Of course not. But in my study of truth as it is in Christ, I have a clearer understanding of the counterfeit. Like FBI agents whose work it is to identify false or counterfeit money by studying the real thing as opposed to the false, so in studying Christ one comes to a clearer perception of Antichrist, his work, and his nature.

3. The feelings about indoctrination and tribalism go both ways - we think you guys are just as uninformed about the doctrines you follow as you do about us - fact.

Can't disagree with that. The ignorance and lack of uniformity among non-Catholics with regards doctrine is legend. Take just one example. The trinity. Ask 20 people what they understand by the trinity and you will get 19 different answers. Although that ought not surprise anyone. Those who first formulated it couldn't understand it and called it a mystery, nor could they teach it in any precise way that anyone else could understand either. One of the reasons I reject it. And I could mention eschatology, soteriology...the list is endless.

Didn’t Martin Luther King Jr. start preaching in the south right after Jesus was resurrected?’

Sorry, I'm a kiwi living in Australia...I have no idea what you could be referring to here....but the mind boggles.

6. Where Protestants see authority, Catholics see private interpretation of scripture and react by automatically questioning the Protestant.

Yes, though Catholics claim the Bible as the foundation of their faith and practice, the truth, at least from my observation and study, is somewhat different. The cry that often goes forth, that the Protestant 'is his own pope', reveals the truth that if the Bible says black, and the pope says purple, (and throughout history he often has) , then the obligation lies upon the individual Catholic to accept what the Pope says. To do otherwise in the past has cost many dearly.

BTW, i used to believe many of the same criticisms about Catholic doctrine and used to pity Catholic members who were being lied to by their clergy (who didn’t even believe it themselves) and indoctrinated in order for the Vatican to hoard money and power.

In Luther's day that was so...Tetzel and the resulting St Peter's Basillica a shining example. I remember it was either Tyndale or Wycliffe who said the famous words in defense of his preaching scripture to the local priest..."I will have the local farm-boy more knowledgable in the scriptures than you"...or words to that effect. The RCC has had no choice but to alter tack. Mr Guttenburg put paid to that kind of indoctrination. So now the RCC 'promotes' Bible reading, although not for the same reasons as the Protestant. And of course as you know, she claims the sole right to final authority as to what scripture means. There is a whole conversation right there.

Then, I met an educated Catholic, read as much doctrine as I could over a two year period and read a great deal of church history. I joined the church when I was thirty

Could that be like an FBI agent who didn't listen to his masters, and studied the false instead of the real, became so familiar with the false to the extent he no longer recognised the real? No offense. Seriously.

 

[brakelite]

If being a faithful Catholic means devoting all my time standing on my head and engaging in the ‘reason yoga’ and the mental gymnastics necessary to explain the evil allowed to exist in my church, while kissing the ass of the Vatican Curia, then I have indeed been exposed as a dissident and pray I will continue to be one as long as I am Catholic.