Calvin and the Great Satan

[michaelvpardo]

Aw cmon. You are yet carnal wasn’t written to holy men.

You misunderstand what holiness means (as well as what carnal means.)
The sons of Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, were among the holiest of men of Israel, priests under the covenant of Sinai, yet they were struck down and consumed by God before the altar for offering profane incense in disobedience to the ordinance. They were set as an example.

10 Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. 3 And Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord spoke, saying:

‘By those who come near Me
I must be regarded as holy;
And before all the people
I must be glorified.’ ”

So Aaron held his peace. Leviticus 10:1-3

This example was for us and Simon Peter understood this.
Holy does not mean "good", but separate, and to be holy (as men) is to be separated to God's purposes. Israel is a chosen people, not just for good or blessing, but for evil and cursing, separated to God's purposes in revealing Himself in the person of His Son. Even the Canaanites were in one respect "holy" to God. He declared them and even their goods "corban", an offering to God as dedicated to destruction.

28 ‘Nevertheless no devoted offering that a man may devote to the Lord of all that he has, both man and beast, or the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted offering is most holy to the Lord. 29 No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death. 30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s. It is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:28-30

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree they were set for an example. So was Uzzah and so were Annais and saphira.
But I think I do understand what yet carnal means…

 

[michaelvpardo]

I agree they were set for an example. So was Uzzah and so were Annais and saphira.
But I think I do understand what yet carnal means…

What then do you believe carnal means? Most people associate it with the Hollywood definition as being associated specifically with lust. This however, is not how scripture uses the term or there would be no exhortation to follow the Spirit and put to death the deeds of the flesh. This exhortation must be for the saints as it is impossible for the unregenerate to follow a Spirit that they do not possess.
The Epistles address the saints, or specific individuals and such are identified in the first few lines of the text of each one. They were all written to believers in Christ who are sanctified by our faith, not some super duper set of believers that the Romans declare saints by their observation of works. (You are aware that Rome is the only city set upon 7 hills, yes ?)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What then do you believe carnal means? Most people associate it with the Hollywood definition as being associated specifically with lust. This however, is not how scripture uses the term or there would be no exhortation to follow the Spirit and put to death the deeds of the flesh. This exhortation must be for the saints as it is impossible for the unregenerate to follow a Spirit that they do not possess.
The Epistles address the saints, or specific individuals and such are identified in the first few lines of the text of each one. They were all written to believers in Christ who are sanctified by our faith, not some super duper set of believers that the Romans declare saints by their observation of works. (You are aware that Rome is the only city set upon 7 hills, yes ?)

I have no idea what all directions you’re going in.
You are yet carnal when your flesh has not yet been put under. That’s obviously not a man who is a saint (yet). That would just be a believer who is still carnal…

Uzzah, annais - that’s men who did not properly deal with holiness.

 

[robert derrick]

Actually not so much...

You have to read the biblical text for what is written not what you have learned by various doctrinal deviations.

Notice this statement from Peter.
Acts 10:35 "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Acceptable is not the same as pleasing. Notice the verse has nothing to do with the 4 quantum leaps to Jesus or accepting a certain religious theory. It has to do with a humble ATTITUDE.

No matter what we do we are to strive to be at least ACCEPTABLE to God. How? By maintaining the fear of the Lord, humility and a proper attitude towards God and men.

Jesus was "well-pleasing" to the Father. But the minimum standard for righteousness with God is to fear Him and work righteousness. Now you will not agree with the bible because you don't realize that you have been indoctrinated to ignore the bible where your learning deviates from the plain biblical text.

"The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable:
but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness." (Prov. 10:32)

Now you will not agree with the bible because

So, you're one of them that thinks people aren't believing Scripture, because they are challenging your reading of Scripture with another.

you don't realize that you have been indoctrinated to ignore the bible where your learning deviates from the plain biblical text.

And you're one of them who thinks he's the only one who reads Scripture for himself, and learns doctrine of Christ guided by the Spirit of truth.

Nevertheless, I'm more interested in what you are teaching than your personal manners.

Acceptable is not the same as pleasing.

Where do you read that? What is acceptable to God is not necessarily pleasing to God? Can anything without faith be acceptable to, though not pleasing?

Is there any working of righteousness that is not of faith, and yet is acceptable to God?

Once again, are you speaking of neighborly sinners, or double minded Christians?

Jesus was "well-pleasing" to the Father. But the minimum standard for righteousness with God is to fear Him and work righteousness.

The 'minimum' stadard for God's righeousness acceptable toHimself is that of Jesus Christ:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil.

There is no 'acceptable' medium between righteous as He is and committing sins of the devil.

If you want to downgrade Christians from being like Jesus and well-pleasing, then that would simply be pleasing, which you want to downgrade even lower to just acceptable.

The point is that you may be right to whatever degree, but until you show specific Scripture proving it, then it's just theory based on your own observations and thoughts.

Show by Scripture a specific difference between righteously acceptable and righteously pleasing. Or even righteous pleasing and righteously well-pleasing.

As I said, the only place Scripture speaks of differences of the Christian walk, is between them answering the call to be saints, and them wretchedly found in double mindedness, who need to purify their hearts and cleanse their hands and go on to perfection of the High calling of God in Christ Jesus to be saints: holy, righteous, unblameable in Him.

 

[robert derrick]

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The Scripture proves that God creates every soul and creature in heaven and in earth to please Him.

Love believes all things, and the God who is love never made any soul that He did not believe would serve Himself rather than the devil: God has created every soul with love from the heart.

God only saves the soul of faith that loves Him with all the heart, because God only makes the souls by faith with love from all His own heart.

This is the true God that is love and creator of all things, not the devilish 'omniscient' fate-maker of Calvin.

God has created no soul at any time, that He did not do so with the love and belief from His bosom, that the soul would choose to please Him rather than serve the devil.

Calvin falsely accused God of being a respecter of persons, which is to preselect and make souls differently: one to please Himself, and the other not.

Creating souls already fitted to destruction is not the faith of Jesus Christ, who created all things for Himself to love and to save.

And isn't it wonderful how the great believers of the great lie of Calvin are some of the most self-confessed sinfully depraved devils on the planet, who ever named the name of Christ.

I'd rather keep company with a non-justified drunkard and whoremonger:

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

 

[Episkopos]

The 'minimum' stadard for God's righeousness acceptable toHimself is that of Jesus Christ:

You are minimizing God's maximum standard here. Jesus said that the way was narrow and few would find it. And we are living at a time where people are farther from the truth than ever...even as everyone claims to walk at the standard that Paul said he was striving to attain to...to win Christ.

Do you what Paul was after? Do you know what the "high calling" is? Or do you see the salvation of a resurrection walk in the perfection of Christ something that is common.

On these boards there isn't enough time to quote more than a few verses. Although believers should take every verse seriously. Reading with any other mind than the mind of Christ makes the salvation of God in Christ to be something easy. But so many rich Westerners think they will have the best of eternity the same way they had the best of this life. Of course the opposite is true. But rather than fear the Lord and learn to bear God's reproof most modern believers are looking to be spoiled and affirmed in their sins.You will rarely find humility and fear of the Lord in modern churches. Why? They are busy fulfilling the words of Jesus about what end-times believers would be like.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil.

There is no 'acceptable' medium between righteous as He is and committing sins of the devil.

Yes righteous is as righteous does. God identifies with the humble and they who do what is right...quite apart from whatever beliefs they may hold to. Jesus came to fulfill ALL righteousness...on both levels. Jesus did not come to call the righteous to repentance. Even the smallest act of righteousness is as Jesus would do since He was also human as we are. So to do righteousness is to behave as Jesus did. Of course Jesus did MORE than basic righteousness. Jesus came to fill the entire righteous standard of the law which is according to holiness. When we abide in Christ we walk just as Jesus did under the covering of divine righteousness from God. However God's righteousness can never be imputed to anyone...it is His alone.

So then many believers...while claiming to have God's righteousness will not even live up to the standard of basic righteousness. Many fall into the category of "woe to you who are rich."

If you want to downgrade Christians from being like Jesus and well-pleasing, then that would simply be pleasing, which you want to downgrade even lower to just acceptable.
The point is that you may be right to whatever degree, but until you show specific Scripture proving it, then it's just theory based on your own observations and thoughts.

Show by Scripture a specific difference between righteously acceptable and righteously pleasing. Or even righteous pleasing and righteously well-pleasing.

As I said, the only place Scripture speaks of differences of the Christian walk, is between them answering the call to be saints, and them wretchedly found in double mindedness, who need to purify their hearts and cleanse their hands and go on to perfection of the High calling of God in Christ Jesus to be saints: holy, righteous, unblameable in Him.

The bible is not meant to be understood by the inquiring carnal mind. There is a sound reasoning that makes the doctrines very clear...but it requires honesty. The point is that MANY people in the bible were deemed righteous without Christ. Even Cornelius the centurion was deemed righteous. And this before he received the Spirit.

So then if a person can be seen as righteous...even the Publican sinner...what further step is there to enter into resurrection life in Christ? What of the righteousness of God? Is that not higher than what a humble person can achieve?

Do you see that the bible is clear without having to make the kind of statements that require no understanding?
God is looking for understanding by faith...not human logic.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I’d like to hear about this.
I’m coming up with something in my mind…I’m thinking…
Trust
Growing trust
The same trust Jesus had
Moving mountains?

Or maybe not. Maybe you weren’t being serious.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I have no idea what all directions you’re going in.
You are yet carnal when your flesh has not yet been put under. That’s obviously not a man who is a saint (yet). That would just be a believer who is still carnal…

Uzzah, annais - that’s men who did not properly deal with holiness.

You don't agree with scripture.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

The Apostle used the word "carnal" to describe the way that the "natural man" thinks or reasons, not as a description of "spiritual state". He addresses those who are "spiritual " as those who have the mind of christ, not dead people.

The minds of Christians are to be renewed. Christians have to learn to think "spiritually."
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:2

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:17-24

This isn't even possible for the unregenerate (those who haven't been born again of His Spirit):
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:12-14

Do you honestly believe that the Apostle was instructing dead people?

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:5-9

Romans 8:9 isn't written to people "under the ground" but to the regenerate, to born again believers, members of the body of Christ, the Saints as opposed to the "ain'ts".
You'll note that verse 9 of Romans plainly says that if you don't have His Spirit, you aren't His. This puts to shame the lies of the carnal minded and their foolish doctrines.

If you want to know sound doctrine, you must compare scripture with scripture, spiritual with spiritual, and in this way have your mind renewed, but the first requirement is that you must be born again.
In other words, you haven't a snow flakes chance in hell of attaining to the mind of Christ if you haven't received His Spirit, and then it requires work (God's) upon the way that you think.

Some people justify their slothfulness and disbelief by imagining that you can't be born again in this life. However you can't justify such belief through scripture, which teaches the exact opposite, a regeneration through the work of God in the person of His Holy Spirit, received by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and prayer to receive Him.