Calvinism is a Cult

[mjrhealth]

Calvinism is a system of teaching that touches on all manner of bible teaching. Every aspect of mens salvation is addressed by the teaching that goes by that name.

Still dont know what it has to do with Christ or mens salvation, just another set of doctrines created by men...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think throwing around the word "cult" is downright destructive here-- all it's going to do is wedge walls between people and make communication near impossible.

I'm not saying I agree with Calvinism at all (nothing could be further from the truth), but the "cult" calling it just not productive.

 

[mjrhealth]

I think throwing around the word "cult" is downright destructive here-- all it's going to do is wedge walls between people and make communication near impossible.

I'm not saying I agree with Calvinism at all (nothing could be further from the truth), but the "cult" calling it just not productive.

I think this is more to do with men creating boxes that define there God than saying, this is my God, it is why Christ had such an issue with mens doctrines, ten ways to heaven 5 steps to salvation, God cannot be contained in a box, He even removed Himself from the Holy Of Holies when the opportunity through Christ, now we define Him our Infinite God by our limited understanding. You cannot contain God, neither can you define Him by doctrines.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Still dont know what it has to do with Christ or mens salvation, just another set of doctrines created by men...

Hello mjr,
I am not afraid to use the historic terms as they come down to us.
Would it help you if we said...Jesusism? Paulism?Apostleism?
God has given men to the Church as teachers.
They are gifts to the church,although not perfect.
All "doctrine "while God given has been written and labeled at that is a helpful time saving device.
Now two people have suggested Calvinists have the wrong God, and the wrong Gospel
In post 9, 10 I gave two brief Calvinist teachings and invited these two persons to"dismantle " the teachings as they claimed they would.
You will find that neither of these two will go line by line. Verse by verse because it will be a display of biblical ignorance that would be epic

They will try and double talk around it, but they do not have either the spiritual or mental faculties to attempt to take on these saints from the 1689 era.
Whatever they post will be shared ignorance for sure.

 

[Waiting on him]

When you cannot present a biblically consistent position all that is remaining is to call names.
Neither one of these two will attempt to correct the teaching of the confession of faith because it will reveal the depth of their ignorance.

He will forgive ignorance and unbelief

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I think this is more to do with men creating boxes that define there God than saying, this is my God, it is why Christ had such an issue with mens doctrines, ten ways to heaven 5 steps to salvation, God cannot be contained in a box, He even removed Himself from the Holy Of Holies when the opportunity through Christ, now we define Him our Infinite God by our limited understanding. You cannot contain God, neither can you define Him by doctrines.

God reveals Himself by doctrine. Jesus said we will know of the doctrine.john 7:16-17
16 Jesus therefore answered them and said, My teaching is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man willeth to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or [whether] I speak from myself.
2tim 3:16 says the scripture is given to equip us for doctrine. Your attempt to go around this wi not be fruitful.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

He will forgive ignorance and unbelief

Yes He will. I know we would rather help in a more positive way, but when an open attack comes it needs to be dealt with before more positive interactions happen.

 

[CoreIssue]

Still like to know what calvinism has to do with mens salvation, or God for that fact. Just more drivvle and pointless arguments. that go no where.

There is no free will choice in Calvinism. No repentance via faith. God is neither loving or just.

You are assigned to salvation or damnation.

 

[Enoch111]

Now will Enoch111 go line by line and show how the posted teaching is wrong, or will he enter into the witness protection program?

I will be happy to show that this teaching about God's decree is FALSE DOCTRINE.

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;

(a) What is a divine decree? According to the KJV dictionary it means "In theology, predetermined purpose of God; the purpose or determination of an immutable Being, whose plan of operations is, like himself, unchangeable."

(b) "All things, whatsoever comes to pass" includes all the sin, evil, and wickedness that takes place on earth, and has been taking place since the Fall.

(c) Therefore according to this teaching from the Westminster Confession of Faith (and notwithstanding their attempt to escape the plain meaning of their own statement by this weaseling-- "yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein") God predetermined and purposed that (1) Adam and Eve would disobey Him, (2) Cain would murder Abel, (3) the whole world would become extremely wicked before the Flood (as just three examples).

Can any honest person agree to this nonsense, when the Bible tells us that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all and that He cannot even bear look upon evil? Yet, the Calvinists have tried to dodge and obfuscate their own false teaching here.

2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.

This is an attempt to bypass the Bible doctrine that "the elect" (according to Scripture, not according to Calvinism) were not known to God because of His foreknowledge, but because He predetermined to elect some for salvation and others for damnation (as we will note below).

However this is what we read in Scripture: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:1,2)

This Scripture is telling us that the Christians being addressed by Peter were elect or chosen according to God's foreknowledge. But what were they chosen for? Were they chosen for salvation or was it in order to be perfected into the image or likeness of Christ? The answer is also in Scripture: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)

These Scripture are plainly telling us that God predestined the ones who would be saved ("whom He justified") to be conformed to the image of Christ ("them He also glorified"). That is what glorification is all about: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.

This is telling us that God has predestined or foreordained some for eternal life (salvation). While Calvinists deny double-predestination, the plain fact is that if God chooses some for salvation, then He also chooses many for damnation. THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE as we can see from Scripture that God desires the salvation of ALL MANKIND. Here are some of the Scriptures:

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 43:22)

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Jn 3:17)

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. (Jn 4:42)

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world... This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Jn 6:33,50,51)

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30)

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:3-6)

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet 3:9)

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

There is no need to discuss the rest of that post.

 

[CoreIssue]

I will be happy to show that this teaching about God's decree is FALSE DOCTRINE.


(a) What is a divine decree? According to the KJV dictionary it means "In theology, predetermined purpose of God; the purpose or determination of an immutable Being, whose plan of operations is, like himself, unchangeable."

(b) "All things, whatsoever comes to pass" includes all the sin, evil, and wickedness that takes place on earth, and has been taking place since the Fall.

(c) Therefore according to this teaching from the Westminster Confession of Faith (and notwithstanding their attempt to escape the plain meaning of their own statement by this weaseling-- "yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein") God predetermined and purposed that (1) Adam and Eve would disobey Him, (2) Cain would murder Abel, (3) the whole world would become extremely wicked before the Flood (as just three examples).

Can any honest person agree to this nonsense, when the Bible tells us that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all and that He cannot even bear look upon evil? Yet, the Calvinists have tried to dodge and obfuscate their own false teaching here.


This is an attempt to bypass the Bible doctrine that "the elect" (according to Scripture, not according to Calvinism) were not known to God because of His foreknowledge, but because He predetermined to elect some for salvation and others for damnation (as we will note below).

However this is what we read in Scripture: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:1,2)

This Scripture is telling us that the Christians being addressed by Peter were elect or chosen according to God's foreknowledge. But what were they chosen for? Were they chosen for salvation or was it in order to be perfected into the image or likeness of Christ? The answer is also in Scripture: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)

These Scripture are plainly telling us that God predestined the ones who would be saved ("whom He justified") to be conformed to the image of Christ ("them He also glorified"). That is what glorification is all about: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)




This is telling us that God has predestined or foreordained some for eternal life (salvation). While Calvinists deny double-predestination, the plain fact is that if God chooses some for salvation, then He also chooses many for damnation. THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE as we can see from Scripture that God desires the salvation of ALL MANKIND. Here are some of the Scriptures:

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 43:22)

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Jn 3:17)

And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. (Jn 4:42)

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world... This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Jn 6:33,50,51)

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30)

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:3-6)

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet 3:9)

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)

There is no need to discuss the rest of that post.

A good post overall. But one point to be made. Some of your uses of Predetermined should've actually been foreknew.

God did not decide or plan for Adam and Eve to sin or Satan to rebel. He foreknew they would and incorporated that knowledge into his Plan.

 

[mjrhealth]

God reveals Himself by doctrine. Jesus said we will know of the doctrine.john 7:16-17
2tim 3:16 says the scripture is given to equip us for doctrine. Your attempt to go around this wi not be fruitful.

Actually we know Him because He reveals Himself to those who Believe, HE doesnt need doctrines to show Himself, just a willing heart.

 

[mjrhealth]

There is no free will choice in Calvinism. No repentance via faith. God is neither loving or just.

You are assigned to salvation or damnation.

Hmm sounds liek a lot of religions

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Ok Enoch, thanks for responding...I did not think you would s I give you credit for that. I will respond in a couple of hours from my laptop.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Enoch111,

[I will be happy to show that this teaching about God's decree is FALSE DOCTRINE.]
You would if you could but you cannot

[(a) What is a divine decree? According to the KJV dictionary it means "In theology, predetermined purpose of God; the purpose or determination of an immutable Being, whose plan of operations is, like himself, unchangeable."]
okay


[(b) "All things, whatsoever comes to pass" includes all the sin, evil, and wickedness that takes place on earth, and has been taking place since the Fall.]

Now it is clear that you do not understand what you are reading at all.
NOTHING CAN HAPPEN IN THE UNIVERSE UNLESS GOD ALLOWS IT TO HAPPEN. NOT ONE PARTICLE, NOT ONE MOLECULE,
can move unless God allows it to. There can not be anything outside of God's perfect knowledge.
Notice our friend leaves off the whole statement; he cannot deal with it, so he seeks to
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

(c) Therefore according to this teaching from the Westminster Confession of Faith (and notwithstanding their attempt to escape the plain meaning of their own statement by this weaseling-- "yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein")

I used the 1689 second London Confession of faith, but the 1644 is a fine confession.
You show once again a lack of understanding of the historic teaching of the believing Church.
God who is perfect in holiness and wisdom cannot sin or have anything to do with causing any sin at anytime.

You cannot grasp this as the confessional pastors see this clearly in scripture, so you accuse them of"weaseling???
You offer no scriptural proof as they do.

[God predetermined]
Now if you jump in to the deep end of the pool, you need to be careful what words you are using.

Decreed, ordained, predestined , are different words. you cannot understand the difference you will not come to truth
[predestined and purposed that (1) Adam and Eve would disobey Him,]
You will find this nowhere in scripture. As posted you are trying to suggest God is the author of sin. the confession spoke right to this, so you shamefully suggest they were trying to create a loophole because you cannot grasp it.

here it is again;yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.

You cannot answer the Calvinist position, so you like most synergists reword it so you can make as if you are really answering it.
again here;
[God predetermined]
(2) Cain would murder Abel,
(3) the whole world would become extremely wicked before the Flood (as just three examples).

This is a wicked and profane suggestion on your part. You are saying this, not any Calvinist.

[Can any honest person agree to this nonsense,]
No..an honest person would read the confessional statement accurately and not lie about it.
You have no scripture, and no calvinist suggesting any such thing
[when the Bible tells us that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all and that He cannot even bear look upon evil? Yet, the Calvinists have tried to dodge and obfuscate their own false teaching here.]

You bear false witness here which is a ninth commandment violation. The readers can see you have lied and deliberately twisted the confessional statement. You and your cohort made a claim that calvinism is a cult, and has a different God who is not the God of the bible. You have not improved or corrected either statement yet because you cannot.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

pt2
Now comes the list of misunderstood terms and words.
[However this is what we read in Scripture: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:1,2)

[This Scripture is telling us that the Christians being addressed by Peter were elect or chosen according to God's foreknowledge.]
Biblical Foreknowledge is not God looking down a time tunnel to see what will happen.It is about God intimately knowing the persons themselves

[But what were they chosen for? Were they chosen for salvation or was it in order to be perfected into the image or likeness of Christ? The answer is also in Scripture: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)]

Of course, they were chosen to salvation. God does not conform unsaved people who are going to hell to the image of His Son. Why are you trying to divide what is known as the golden chain of redemption?

These Scripture are plainly telling us that God predestined the ones who would be saved ("whom He justified") to be conformed to the image of Christ ("them He also glorified"). That is what glorification is all about: Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Rom 8:30)]
You are making my case here
[This is telling us that God has predestined or foreordained some for eternal life (salvation).]
Yes...they are the elect sheep, the wheat, The children given by the Father.
[While Calvinists deny double-predestination,]

Most do deny double predestination and the confession explains it clearly so detractors like you cannot once again bear false witness. The correct teaching of those not elected is known as preterition [God passing over them}

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

[the plain fact is that if God chooses some for salvation,]
Yes God has elected a multitude of sinners In Christ
[then He also chooses many for damnation.]
You say this but scripture does not. Where did the confession say this?

[THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE as we can see from Scripture that God desires the salvation of ALL MANKIND. Here are some of the Scriptures:]

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

pt3;
now the misunderstood verses

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 43:22)

Salvation is to go worldwide, not everyone is going to be saved
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)
Again this shows the universal scope of the gospel. Everyone in the world is not going to be saved

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (Jn 3:17)
Again this shows the universal scope of the gospel. Everyone in the world is not going to be saved
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. (Jn 4:42)

Again this shows the universal scope of the gospel. Everyone in the world is not going to be saved

For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world... This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (Jn 6:33,50,51)
Again this shows the universal scope of the gospel. Everyone in the world is not going to be saved
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30)
Yes He has
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:3-6)
Yes all types of men, Kings, those in authority,rich, poor,
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

yes the context explains the everyone;
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Everything in blue is speaking of the elect Covenant children

Now you pull 2 pet 3:9 out of context, it is speaking of all of the elect coming to salvation,.


The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet 3:9)

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
Yes.Only the elect will come
There is no need to discuss the rest of that post.

Sure there is, you have not discussed the biblical God which you claimed is not the biblical God, and you just got your lunch handed to you on these posts. I know you would like to run away and hide, but there is much to interact on.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Enoch111

Anthony, what is your purpose of arguing with Enoch111?
Especially coming from a Calvinist standpoint.

(Obviously this same question can be answered by anyone else as to their reasoning)

 

[Waiting on him]

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn 1:29)

What world is he talking about

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

mjrhealth,

[Actually we know Him because He reveals Himself to those who Believe,]
That would be nobody as no man seeks God in and of themselves; rom3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

[HE doesnt need doctrines to show Himself,]
No one alive today would know Jesus, who He is, and what He has done.
[just a willing heart.]
No one has a willing heart
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Your statement as posted has no biblical merit

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Anthony, what is your purpose of arguing with Enoch111?
Especially coming from a Calvinist standpoint.
(Obviously this same question can be answered by anyone else as to their reasoning)

Have you read the title of this thread?
This thread is a foul thread accusing brethren of not knowing the true God.
I will refute such falsehood openly.
Enoch will not get it most likely, however others who read honestly and carefully will see the truth.