Calvinism is a Cult

[justbyfaith]

So...you want to highlight the first 6 words, but then ignore the explanation given by the Holy Spirit going thru verse 13, interesting...Do you use a black sharpie to cross that out of your bible? you need to explain the whole section, not just 6 words..

Previously spoken in this thread:

[QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 512897, member: 7886"~]Concerning John 1:12-13, that the person is not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, does not nullify the fact that He gives the right to become children of God to as many as receive Him.

A man cannot will himself to be saved, is what this is saying.

However, if Jesus is knocking on the door of your heart, He will not come in unless you willingly open the door...It is "whosoever will" according to Revelation 22:17.

The person who wills to take the water of life freely, or to receive Christ, is not born of himself, not by his own will, but by the fact that the Holy Spirit comes in to take residence in his heart.

The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and will not take residence in anyone's heart against their will.

So yes, when He is knocking, a person must open the door as an act of the will.

However, the person does not will himself to be saved, and he does not muster up his salvation...

Rather, he responds to the call of the Lord on his life by saying yes to the Lord when He knocks, and opening the door.

If the Lord were not knocking, he would not be able to save himself as an act of his will. A person is only saved when the Holy Spirit comes to take residence in the person's heart. Therefore they are born of God, but not against their will. They must receive.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 512902, member: 7886"~]Again, they are not saved by an act of the will when they receive Christ. They are saved by the fact that the Holy Spirit takes residence in their heart. They are born of God as the result of receiving Christ. If Christ were not knocking on the door of their heart, their opening the door would accomplish nothing; He is not outside waiting to come in. Therefore they are not saved by their own will but they can only be born of God.[/QUOTE]

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Nancy doesn't realize when God is attempting to correct her, and that he decreed men of God, pastors, teachers to do so. But she will have none of that.

She, like many others refuses any correction, (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and won't even consider it, all the while blasting others as she does with false accusations of error. It's interesting to see her theological errors and false assumptions, while blaming it on being lead to all truth.

Hmmm. So, she's inerrant in her teaching. Unreal.

I was away from this board while driving today, and I come back and see you being attacked on all sides,lol
Your demand that they deal honestly is too much for them to endure, so they attack saying you are so cruel???You ask for truth,and you are the bad guy??_O

 

[SovereignGrace]

You got that right! They overlook the simplicity of Gods Word and rarely if ever speak of those many, many verses that include All, Any, the world etc.

1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.[Romans 1]

Verse 7 says all who are beloved of God in Rome? Does all mean everybody whoever lived or all believers in Rome? You tell me.

Context determines who all, everyone, world, &c., is referring to.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Previously spoken in this thread:

Hello JBF,

why not just stay in this passage and let it tell you what it means. I do not think John could have explained it clearer...just read it out loud to your self 10 or 15 times and you will get it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thank you for that JustbyFaith! I really did not have the mental energy to repeat all those verses yet again. It Is exhausting! Myself and another on here thing Preacher4 is James White, lol...Hmmmm. <3

He’s not Dr. White. Trust me.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

these guys are sometimes more dishonest than JonC on BB, lol..he hates the teaching, accuses martinM , Biblicist, willis and myself of being unsaved , then looks to ban anyone who answers him openly, while he deletes his posts to hide his shameful conduct.

 

[justbyfaith]

You do not get to pick and choose which verses you like or do not like, all verses have to work in the texts, you take half verses as satan did in luke 4, but Jesus would have none of that.

Don't be so obtuse. I quoted half of John 6:37 to save time and energy; and also made certain that everyone knew it wasn't the whole verse by putting the little "b" after it.

I am not picking and choosing what verses I like or don't like, I am pointing out that these verses contradict your viewpoint.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You know NOTHING of what my life is about. I am just so weary and exhausted of repeating myself. This gets no where. If you want to think God is a respecter of persons, be my guest and my VERY LAST word on this subject is that I believe it is a doctrine of demons trying to discourage, divide and steal joy and assurance.

"But you have the mental energy to make false accusations, libel, and unsubstantiated claims, right?"

You seem to say these things allot, to anyone who does not agree with YOUR interpretation of scripture. Hey, you are already saved! Do as you please because you are sealed but all the other poor and lost souls are just going to burn forever because we didn't agree with you. Your limited atonement kind of throws the reason for evangelism right out the window.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life , but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This says to me that ALL men were put in the Book of LIFE from the very beginning.
Joh 3:16, 17 For God so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Ti 2:3, 4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance .

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me .

God wills that ALL men be saved. He allows us to reject Him, which many do and will.

“ Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door , I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me (Rev 3:20).” Seems like a free will choice. We either serve Him or Satan.

Jesus was called the Elect" Isa 45:4 -For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect , I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Israel too: 1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Angels, the Church are ALSO called "the elect" So, we know where we stand and neither one of us, unless eyes are opened to His Spirit of Truth...this is a solid stalemate.

God Bless

Ripping a verse from its context is eisegesis and is not your friend, my sister. Please exegete those verses for us.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

He’s not Dr. White. Trust me.

This goes to show that just trying to get posters to be honest, and they think Dr. White is on the scene, lol

 

[justbyfaith]

Hello JBF,

why not just stay in this passage and let it tell you what it means. I do not think John could have explained it clearer...just read it out loud to your self 10 or 15 times and you will get it.

I have meditated on what the reconciliation to the apparent contradiction might be.

I suggest you read verse 12 over and over about twenty times, and then go on to read verse 13.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ripping a verse from its context is eisegesis and is not your friend, my sister. Please exegete those verses for us.

Scripturally, it is not for women to be teachers.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

these guys are sometimes more dishonest than JonC on BB, lol..he hates the teaching, accuses martinM , Biblicist, willis and myself of being unsaved , then looks to ban anyone who answers him openly, while he deletes his posts to hide his shameful conduct.

He's still pulling that nonsense? Lol...sad though.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Don't be so obtuse. I quoted half of John 6:37 to save time and energy; and also made certain that everyone knew it wasn't the whole verse by putting the little "b" after it.

I am not picking and choosing what verses I like or don't like, I am pointing out that these verses contradict your viewpoint.

JBF....I am not being obtuse just trying to establish that for example in Jn6;37- you cannot cut the giving of the Father from part b of the verse. Every cal on the planet rejoices in part b, but gives thanks to the Father for His mercy and electing love. Why would you want to cut that off? It is at the heart of the passage right down to verse 44...give all glory to God.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I was away from this board while driving today, and I come back and see you being attacked on all sides,lol
Your demand that they deal honestly is too much for them to endure, so they attack saying you are so cruel???You ask for truth,and you are the bad guy??_O

This happens a lot. They will not have ears to hear, they will not allow Scripture in context to correct them. Instead they attack, libel, ridicule, and avoid truth.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

He's still pulling that nonsense? Lol...sad though.

yes...you were right about him. I was wrong asking you men to give him the benefit of the doubt, he is a habitual liar. I confronted him and ask that he man up and own his words...his response was to delete his posts, lie about them, than accuse me of being dishonest

 

[justbyfaith]

You do not get to pick and choose which verses you like or do not like, all verses have to work in the texts, you take half verses as satan did in luke 4, but Jesus would have none of that.
9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:

11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Satan left out part of the verse like you do....[in all thy ways}
psalm91
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

I guess that I invited you to judge me by doing that...after making it clear the Luke 6:37 is a scripture to obey.

 

[justbyfaith]

I was away from this board while driving today, and I come back and see you being attacked on all sides,lol
Your demand that they deal honestly is too much for them to endure, so they attack saying you are so cruel???You ask for truth,and you are the bad guy??_O

Seems to me that all I was doing was calling him out on him being in attack mode...

 

[Preacher4Truth]

yes...you were right about him. I was wrong asking you men to give him the benefit of the doubt, he is a habitual liar. I confronted him and ask that he man up and own his words...his response was to delete his posts, lie about them, than accuse me of being dishonest

So he took over where DHK left off. Nice!

 

[SovereignGrace]

You know NOTHING of what my life is about. I am just so weary and exhausted of repeating myself. This gets no where. If you want to think God is a respecter of persons, be my guest and my VERY LAST word on this subject is that I believe it is a doctrine of demons trying to discourage, divide and steal joy and assurance.

"But you have the mental energy to make false accusations, libel, and unsubstantiated claims, right?"

You seem to say these things allot, to anyone who does not agree with YOUR interpretation of scripture. Hey, you are already saved! Do as you please because you are sealed but all the other poor and lost souls are just going to burn forever because we didn't agree with you. Your limited atonement kind of throws the reason for evangelism right out the window.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life , but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This says to me that ALL men were put in the Book of LIFE from the very beginning.
Joh 3:16, 17 For God so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Ti 2:3, 4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance .

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me .

God wills that ALL men be saved. He allows us to reject Him, which many do and will.

“ Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door , I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me (Rev 3:20).” Seems like a free will choice. We either serve Him or Satan.

Jesus was called the Elect" Isa 45:4 -For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect , I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Israel too: 1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The Angels, the Church are ALSO called "the elect" So, we know where we stand and neither one of us, unless eyes are opened to His Spirit of Truth...this is a solid stalemate.

God Bless

I already addressed 2 Peter 3:9. Allow me to address some of the others.

1 Timothy 1:3-4 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

You stopped at verse 5 and offer no exegesis whatsoever, just posted those two verses. Yet read the following verses 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

It says the Christ is the one Mediator between man and God. Now, the OT high priest forshadowed the Christ, as He can as a Prophet, Priest and King. This OT high priest did not act as a mediator for any other than the Jews. He did not mediate for the Syrians, Assyrians, Philistines, Jebusites, Egyptians, &c. He did not mediate for everybody who lived at that time. This is the way the Christ mediates today, for the ppl of God.

Then you posted John 12:32. To draw means to literally drag off. Not that He drags us kicking and screaming against our wills, but effectually draws them. If He does this to all, then universalism reigns supreme.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

This goes to show that just trying to get posters to be honest, and they think Dr. White is on the scene, lol

My wife says I should feel complimented, but I can't because somewhere James White feels bad about it. Lol!

 

[justbyfaith]

JBF....I am not being obtuse just trying to establish that for example in Jn6;37- you cannot cut the giving of the Father from part b of the verse. Every cal on the planet rejoices in part b, but gives thanks to the Father for His mercy and electing love. Why would you want to cut that off? It is at the heart of the passage right down to verse 44...give all glory to God.

I simply didn't cut it off. I made sure that you would know that it was a half-verse so that anyone could look it up if they so desired. The first half wasn't relevant to what I was saying so I left it out of my quote. I have made it clear elsewhere what I believe about the first half of the verse but did not want to convolute things by bringing it up. We would end up going in circles.

But, ok...

The Father drawing a man to Christ and the Father giving a man to Christ are two different things.

When He draws a man, the man is enabled to make an unhindered decision for or against Christ.

If or when the man makes that decision to believe in and follow Christ, the Father gives that man to Christ.

Now, anyone reading this far into the thread will begin to say, this thread is getting boring...they keep repeating the same things over and over.

In order to try to avoid unnecessary repetition, I thought to keep it to one point.