Calvinism is a Cult

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Seems to me that all I was doing was calling him out on him being in attack mode...

JBF,
I was away for a few days working. I just jumped in and looked at posts from page 42- till now...he was under attack.
P4T, is straight forward and wants to see the truth posted and discussed. If you bring a reasonable argument, he will discuss it in a calm manner and offer several verses to consider. If people attack, he will offer some return fire. We should be able to interact without if getting to defcon 5.

I am not here to hurt you JBF. I have been on several boards,and after awhile Many of the same discussions happen. Forgive me if i am somewhat direct at times, but I am just trying to get to the crux of the differences.
Consider what is offered in that way. we are all still learning, I do not mind any sincere question, but when some mock it makes it difficult to stay calm .

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

My wife says I should feel complimented, but I can't because somewhere James White feels bad about it. Lol!

Dr.White has always tried to distance himself from this kind of mudslinging that takes place, as he is working on many important doctrinal issues, and writing books and such.
It is a shame that the level of discussion quickly runs to a low level, when the Arminian types use their 6 verses and are out of bullets,lol

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Seems to me that all I was doing was calling him out on him being in attack mode...

You have an unjust balance in addition to your libel, bearing false witness and unrepentant twisting of Scripture. You sit there and watch all of us being lied about, attacked, misrepresented, and even do it yourself. Yet if you sense anyone doing this to us is being held accountable by us you call it an attack like you think it is wrong to attack. That is, unless you and those of your ilk do it (and you all do) then it's OK.

Do you think you could at least act converted? Have some integrity? Use right judgment? Even the lost do these things.

 

[justbyfaith]

You stopped at verse 5 and offer no exegesis whatsoever,

Sometimes it is best to let the word of God speak for itself and not to offer our "leaven" concerning it.

Then you posted John 12:32. To draw means to literally drag off. Not that He drags us kicking and screaming against our wills, but effectually draws them. If He does this to all, then universalism reigns supreme.

Which would mean that your definition of the word "draw" has to be faulty; if you look at the verse.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sometimes it is best to let the word of God speak for itself and not to offer our "leaven" concerning it.

I exegete the verses and you paste a verse and say ta da!

Which would mean that your definition of the word "draw" has to be faulty; if you look at the verse.

Look at the Greek word helko, which is translated draw.

to draw, drag off, to draw by inward power, lead, impel

It’s used in John 18:10 when Peter drew his sword and in John 21:11 when the net full of fish was drawn in by Peter. To draw means they come. Peter drew his sword, it came out of its scabbard. He drew the net to shore and it came. It’s an effectual drawing the Christ does.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

JBF,
I was away for a few days working. I just jumped in and looked at posts from page 42- till now...he was under attack.
P4T, is straight forward and wants to see the truth posted and discussed. If you bring a reasonable argument, he will discuss it in a calm manner and offer several verses to consider. If people attack, he will offer some return fire. We should be able to interact without if getting to defcon 5.

I am not here to hurt you JBF. I have been on several boards,and after awhile Many of the same discussions happen. Forgive me if i am somewhat direct at times, but I am just trying to get to the crux of the differences.
Consider what is offered in that way. we are all still learning, I do not mind any sincere question, but when some mock it makes it difficult to stay calm .

They want to play hardball, but demand we play badminton back to them lol. They cannot stand being challenged or called out when they libel us.

All I want is honest discussion, stop the evasiveness and avoiding truth, concede it is wrong to take scripture out of context, stop misrepresentations, handle the word honestly, end the lying, and end the false unsubstantiated accusations. JBF needs to concede, he is guilty of all this but especially of taking scripture out of context. He needs to own it, then he will grow.

 

[justbyfaith]

I exegete the verses and you paste a verse and say ta da!





Look at the Greek word helko, which is translated draw.

to draw, drag off, to draw by inward power, lead, impel

It’s used in John 18:10 when Peter drew his sword and in John 21:11 when the net full of fish was drawn in by Peter. To draw means they come. Peter drew his sword, it came out of its scabbard. He drew the net to shore and it came. It’s an effectual drawing the Christ does.

If that is the case, then the scripture in question says that all men will come to Jesus for salvation.

 

[Nancy]

Ripping a verse from its context is eisegesis and is not your friend, my sister. Please exegete those verses for us.

I guess I am just too simple for this board anymore. It has lost the true feel of fellowship. I do pray for EVERY PERSON on this forum and will continue to.
I miss it.
You win! You are much smarter than I. God Bless.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,

Let me say I like that we can interact in a civil manner
[I simply didn't cut it off. I made sure that you would know that it was a half-verse so that anyone could look it up if they so desired. The first half wasn't relevant to what I was saying so I left it out of my quote. I have made it clear elsewhere what I believe about the first half of the verse but did not want to convolute things by bringing it up. We would end up going in circles.]

Understood, no problem. I guess I thought you intended to continue that way, but I have just jumpoed in to this thread, so sorry if I misunderstood

But, ok...

[The Father drawing a man to Christ and the Father giving a man to Christ are two different things.]

The Father gives to the Son before creation, a multitude that no man can number. The Father sends the Spirit to draw them.
2tim1
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

[When He draws a man, the man is enabled to make an unhindered decision for or against Christ.]
When God draws a man, He effectually draws Him, it is always unto salvation. All men who hear the gospel preached and taught are given that as a general call, they resist, unless God overcomes their objections by giving a new heart.
[If or when the man makes that decision to believe in and follow Christ, the Father gives that man to Christ.]

JBF, I know many have said this and it is preached in mega churches, but the problem is it is false and directly contradictory to 2 tim1:9,jn6:37-44

 

[SovereignGrace]

I guess I am just too simple for this board anymore. It has lost the true feel of fellowship. I do pray for EVERY PERSON on this forum and will continue to.
I miss it.
You win! You are much smarter than I. God Bless.

Discussing the Bible is just more than posting a verse or two hither and yon my Sister. It’s a painstaking effort to get to the meat it contains. Now, go back and exegete the surrounding verses of places like John 12:32, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, 1 Peter 1:4, and not just posting those verses without offering an exegesis.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

They want to play hardball, but demand we play badminton back to them lol. They cannot stand being challenged or called out when they libel us.

All I want is honest discussion, stop the evasiveness and avoiding truth, concede it is wrong to take scripture out of context, stop misrepresentations, handle the word honestly, end the lying, and end the false unsubstantiated accusations. JBF needs to concede, he is guilty of all this but especially of taking scripture out of context. He needs to own it, then he will grow.

I think this is well said and should be all of our goals. If we want the truth of God sometimes we have to consider things even if we have not heard it preached that way yet.

 

[justbyfaith]

JBF,
I was away for a few days working. I just jumped in and looked at posts from page 42- till now...he was under attack.
P4T, is straight forward and wants to see the truth posted and discussed. If you bring a reasonable argument, he will discuss it in a calm manner and offer several verses to consider. If people attack, he will offer some return fire. We should be able to interact without if getting to defcon 5.

I am not here to hurt you JBF. I have been on several boards,and after awhile Many of the same discussions happen. Forgive me if i am somewhat direct at times, but I am just trying to get to the crux of the differences.
Consider what is offered in that way. we are all still learning, I do not mind any sincere question, but when some mock it makes it difficult to stay calm .

Okay, I looked at the posting history, and this is what I found:

In pages 42-43, @Preacher4Truth was not even present in the conversation.

But on page 45, he accused @CoreIssue and who knows who else of being a liar.

He's filled with lies, but some people think they're OK to lie, after all they chose their way into heaven by works, and think they're saved. To them if they sin it doesn't really count. Scripture, on the other hand, indicates something entirely and solemnly different.

Should we be shocked that you're not afraid to lie? You lie daily on this site, multiple times per day. I think we'd be shocked if you acted converted and spoke the truth.



How many decades have you been seeing things that aren't there? "58 years?"

Might this be the reason he was "under attack"?
.
.
.
The following is the only thing that I even said up to that point that can even be construed as volatile, and the thing in question was merely answering a fool according to his folly...in doing so I suppose I became like him...but at least he won't now be wise in his own eyes...

You were referencing John 1:13 out of context: you should have referenced John 1:12-13.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I guess I am just too simple for this board anymore. It has lost the true feel of fellowship. I do pray for EVERY PERSON on this forum and will continue to.
I miss it.
You win! You are much smarter than I. God Bless.

And no my Sister, I am not smarter than you. Trust me, I need to know TONS more of the Bible than I do.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I guess I am just too simple for this board anymore. It has lost the true feel of fellowship. I do pray for EVERY PERSON on this forum and will continue to.
I miss it.
You win! You are much smarter than I. God Bless.

Nancy,
i would ask you not to do that. Why not just take a fresh look and as the Bereans did, read, consider and learn Acts17:11.
I have been corrected many, many times, and still am open to correction. Why would i not be open to truth, if a person can make the biblical case for it.No one is trying to chase you away,but rather if you go after what others hold, you need to take some time to understand the issues.I am sure you are not hearing these things in your church, but look here ..www.Sermonaudio.com

 

[SovereignGrace]

Okay, I looked at the posting history, and this is what I found:

In pages 42-43, @Preacher4Truth was not even present in the conversation.

But on page 45, he accused @CoreIssue and who knows who else of being a liar.





Might this be the reason he was "under attack"?
.
.
.
The following is the only thing that I even said up to that point that can even be construed as volatile, and the thing in question was merely answering a fool according to his folly...in doing so I suppose I became like him...but at least he won't now be wise in his own eyes...

Well, we tell ppl our beliefs and then say we believe something else. This happens a lot. That’s lying.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think this is well said and should be all of our goals. If we want the truth of God sometimes we have to consider things even if we have not heard it preached that way yet.

By all means preach it that way...compose a message that preaches what you believe in as a Calvinist.

How can we consider something that has not been preached to us? We would not have any concept of what it is, since we have not been told.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, we tell ppl our beliefs and then say we believe something else. This happens a lot. That’s lying.

It seems that you are admitting at least that you are a liar.

I do not do that.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Okay, I looked at the posting history, and this is what I found:

In pages 42-43, @Preacher4Truth was not even present in the conversation.

But on page 45, he accused @CoreIssue and who knows who else of being a liar.





Might this be the reason he was "under attack"?
.
.
.
The following is the only thing that I even said up to that point that can even be construed as volatile, and the thing in question was merely answering a fool according to his folly...in doing so I suppose I became like him...but at least he won't now be wise in his own eyes...

The fact is coreissue certainly lied so I called him on it. Why not quote what he said, you know, this thing called context?

You're an expert at taking everything out of context to make things appear how you want them to appear. If a person lies, who professes Christ, I will call the person on it. Libel, false accusations, misrepresentation, all are lies and this is what he's done from his OP to slam us and in his follow up responses. And not one time have you quoted any of that. That too is dishonest.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith,

Let me say I like that we can interact in a civil manner
[I simply didn't cut it off. I made sure that you would know that it was a half-verse so that anyone could look it up if they so desired. The first half wasn't relevant to what I was saying so I left it out of my quote. I have made it clear elsewhere what I believe about the first half of the verse but did not want to convolute things by bringing it up. We would end up going in circles.]

Understood, no problem. I guess I thought you intended to continue that way, but I have just jumpoed in to this thread, so sorry if I misunderstood

But, ok...

[The Father drawing a man to Christ and the Father giving a man to Christ are two different things.]

The Father gives to the Son before creation, a multitude that no man can number. The Father sends the Spirit to draw them.
2tim1
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

[When He draws a man, the man is enabled to make an unhindered decision for or against Christ.]
When God draws a man, He effectually draws Him, it is always unto salvation. All men who hear the gospel preached and taught are given that as a general call, they resist, unless God overcomes their objections by giving a new heart.
[If or when the man makes that decision to believe in and follow Christ, the Father gives that man to Christ.]

JBF, I know many have said this and it is preached in mega churches, but the problem is it is false and directly contradictory to 2 tim1:9,jn6:37-44

Predestination is according to foreknowledge, Romans 8:29-30, 1 Peter 1:2.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The fact is coreissue certainly lied so I called him on it. Why not quote what he said, you know, this thing called context?

You're an expert at taking everything out of context to make things appear how you want them to appear. If a person lies, who professes Christ, I will call the person on it. Libel, false accusations, misrepresentation, all are lies and this is what he's done from his OP to slam us and in his follow up responses. And not one time have you quoted any of that. That too is dishonest.

Guilty by association.