Calvinism is a Cult

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Lady Crosstalk

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I agree that the bible has some insight into the hearts of people. At least it is honest that people are generally selfish. Most current thought seems to be that we are intrinsically good. I think the bible gets it right that we are not. It takes a choice to do good. But I don't see how this is sufficient evidence to believe it was inspired by god.

There is not sufficient evidence of this.

Here is evidence which demands a verdict: Why Atheists Are 'Fools'
 
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Dave L

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Faith it the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

I offer the faith of Christians as the evidence that the Bible is a reality.

If you think about it, Christians are an upside-down people when compared to the rest of the world.

The fact that there are people who have an opposite paradigm than what is normal ought to be considered as evidence that the reason for that opposite paradigm has validity, if its basis be in something that happened in world history that also changed history, like the Cross of Jesus Christ.

This thing wasn't accomplished in some corner of the woods. It is very much in the face of atheists and those who have a worldly paradigm.

If anyone is going to go to hell, they have to trample over the Cross of Jesus Christ; because it stands in the way of their path, and it calls them to salvation. It presents a way of living that is exactly opposite to what is normal in the world...even to the extent that people who actually live like the Bible says they ought to, are sometimes subjected to psychological evaluation and deemed to be mentally ill. But in all reality they are not. The Bible says that God hath not given us the spirit of fear but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7. Nevertheless it also says,

Hos 9:7, The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

Because of the great hatred that is objected against Christians and Jews (for that we are the source of the Judeo-Christian ethic, which is considered to be restricting by the world, see Psalms 2:3), even those who hold to the Judeo-Christian ethic (those who are spiritual) are singled out in psychology with terms like persecution complex and religious preoccupation. If someone actually believes and lives like Matthew 5:10-12, or 2 Timothy 3:10-12 is a reality; or if someone obeys 1 Peter 2:1-3 and/or Psalms 1, then they are considered to be mentally ill if or when they go before the psychiatrist. Don't believe me? Read about it in your psychology books.

So then, it is not that believers have an actual mental illness, but that we are considered to have a mental illness because we hold to a different paradigm than does the rest of the world. As it is written,

2Co 5:13, For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
2Co 5:14, For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:15, And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
“Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” (2 Timothy 1:6–7) (KJV 1900)
 
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Vince

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It is obvious then that men are quite apparently NOT all that wise. The Bible's wisdom is supernatural and from above.
There is not enough evidence to believe this.

It depends on what you mean by "evidence". In a judicial system, the testimony of two or three witnesses is more than necessary evidence to support a verdict. We have the testimony of at least eleven eye-witnesses. Were they lying? Who would die for a lie?
People die for what they believe to be true not what is true. I am not convinced that these stories are true anyway.

Scientific evidence? Not possible because you cannot submit the God hypothesis to rigorous testing just as you cannot really submit the "big bang" hypothesis to testing.
I agree that god is an idea outside the bounds of science. There are other evidences other than scientific. God would know what evidence I would need to believe.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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People die for what they believe to be true not what is true.

They do not die for what they know to be a lie--and they would have known it was a lie...if it was. Even Judas realized too late, that what Jesus said was all true. He understood that he had betrayed innocent blood. The Pharisees believed that Jesus was trying to pervert their religion. If so, He would not have been innocent at all. Judas probably believed them...at first.

I agree that god is an idea outside the bounds of science. There are other evidences other than scientific. God would know what evidence I would need to believe.

And you are demanding that He do what to convince you? Be resurrected from the dead?
 
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Vince

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Here is evidence which demands a verdict: Why Atheists Are 'Fools'
I read this and here are my thoughts:

God’s Word declares, “The fool hath said in his heart ‘there is no God'” (Psalm 14)."

I have never said "there is no god" so I am anticipating this article to not pertain to me.

It says this In my experience it is something common among atheists: an inexplicable, incongruent and visceral hatred for the very God they imagine does not exist.

This is a straw man. Most atheists are not like Stalin, we are not angry at god we have a lack of belief that he exists.

The manifest intentionality and fine-tuning of all creation reveals design of breathtaking complexity. The Creator is of incalculable intelligence and infinite splendor. As I see it, atheism provides a case study in willful suspension of disbelief – all to escape, as the God-denier imagines it, accountability for massaging the libertine impulse.

The fine tuning is a description of the universe and it is unwarranted. We have no other universes to compare it to. So just because the constants of the universe are what they are does not mean that it could not have happened by natural means. Things happen daily that have astronomical odds of happening. If I had 100 six side dice and I was about to roll them the odds of you predicting how many of each number will turn up is 1.53x10^-76%, or almost impossible. But that probability has to occur if the dice are rolled.

In the case of the atheist, or the “freethinker,” as they paradoxically prefer, that which is unbelievable is that somehow everything came from nothing – that there is no uncaused first cause; that God does not exist, even as knowledge of His being is indelibly written on every human heart and proved by all He has made.

Another strawman. I don't know what what here before the universe. I don't know if there was something or nothing.

The rest of the article goes on the same way, making straw man arguments and then refuting those and then claiming to refute atheism. This article is for people that say god does not exist. You will find few atheists with this stance.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Maybe provide sufficient evidence that he did indeed rise from the dead.

There was direct evidence that He rose from the dead--from His disciples who were hiding out, discouraged and afraid. They went to their deaths declaring His resurrection to be true, when all they would have had to do is recant and live. There were 500 other people who saw the risen Lord as well. Saul was knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus (he was on his way to persecute more followers of Jesus) and asked why he was persecuting the Lord. He went to his death gladly testifying that it was all true, when again, he would only have had to recant to be spared. He was, after all, a Roman citizen and was entitled to be treated under Roman Law.
 
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Vince

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There was direct evidence that He rose from the dead--both from His disciples who were hiding out and discouraged and afraid. They went to their deaths declaring His resurrection to be true, when all they would have had to do is recant and live. There were 500 other people who saw the risen Lord as well. Saul was knocked off his horse on the road to Damascus (he was on his way to persecute more followers of Jesus) and asked why he was persecuting the Lord. He went to his death gladly testifying that it was all true, when again, he would only have had to recant to be spared. He was, after all, a Roman citizen and was entitled to be treated under Roman Law.
And why should I believe these stories are true?
 

Lady Crosstalk

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I read this and here are my thoughts: I have never said "there is no god" so I am anticipating this article to not pertain to me.

Then you are not an atheist--you are an agnostic. Congratulations, you have graduated to being intellectually respectable. (Atheism is not.)



This is a straw man. Most atheists are not like Stalin, we are not angry at god we have a lack of belief that he exists.

I don't think it was intended to be an argument--just an illustration. What you are really saying is that you don't know that He exists, but don't care that He might? Even though, if He does, He could resurrect you to the unending torment of dying throughout all eternity--cut off from the only source of well-being?


The fine tuning is a description of the universe and it is unwarranted. We have no other universes to compare it to. So just because the constants of the universe are what they are does not mean that it could not have happened by natural means. Things happen daily that have astronomical odds of happening. If I had 100 six side dice and I was about to roll them the odds of you predicting how many of each number will turn up is 1.53x10^-76%, or almost impossible. But that probability has to occur if the dice are rolled.

Are you going to bet your eternal destiny against those kinds of odds?

I don't know what what here before the universe. I don't know if there was something or nothing.

Those physicists who posit the "big bang" say that there was nothing before that time. Are you familiar with the Kalam Cosmological argument?

The Kalam Cosmological Argument | Reasonable Faith
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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And why should I believe these stories are true?

Why should you not?

For that matter, why should you believe any tales of history are true? Do you believe that there was ever someone called Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Cleopatra and Marc Antony, etc. Why should you believe that their exploits are true?
 
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Jun2u

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With all the Calvinists and quasi-Calvinists posting I think this thread is necessary.

This first paragraph of the OP should read: “With all the quasi-Christians posting here this thread is necessary.”

Calvinism is a cult.

Define the meaning of the word cult and why you think Calvinism is a cult

Of course, you and those like you will only believe in the god you have created and NOT worship the true GOD of the Bible for you do not know/recognize Him.

The God of Calvinism does not resemble the God of the Bible.

Of course, you and those like you will only believe in the god you have created and NOT worship the true GOD of the Bible for you do not know/recognize Him.

The salvation of Calvinism is not biblical. God does not create/appoint some salvation and some to damnation with a total rejection of free will.

True, God does not create/appoint some to salvation and some to damnation. Nowhere is this language found in Scripture. The words predestination, election, chosen, and called are biblical words, however, and well taught in Scripture.

Adam and Eve, on the other hand, had free will and it’s history. “As in Adam all die” and this is the reason mankind desperately needs a Savior.

That is a short and sweet of it. But these two aspects of Christianity are enough to judge it by.

Short and sweet of it? Man clench his fist at God and say, “I’m going to hell BECAUSE YOU DID NOT CHOOSE me!” What audacity to blame God. Unsaved man goes to hell BECAUSE of his sins.

STUDY YOUR BIBLE FOLKS!


To God Be The Glory
 
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CoreIssue

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This first paragraph of the OP should read: “With all the quasi-Christians posting here this thread is necessary.”



Define the meaning of the word cult and why you think Calvinism is a cult

Of course, you and those like you will only believe in the god you have created and NOT worship the true GOD of the Bible for you do not know/recognize Him.



Of course, you and those like you will only believe in the god you have created and NOT worship the true GOD of the Bible for you do not know/recognize Him.



True, God does not create/appoint some to salvation and some to damnation. Nowhere is this language found in Scripture. The words predestination, election, chosen, and called are biblical words, however, and well taught in Scripture.

Adam and Eve, on the other hand, had free will and it’s history. “As in Adam all die” and this is the reason mankind desperately needs a Savior.



Short and sweet of it? Man clench his fist at God and say, “I’m going to hell BECAUSE YOU DID NOT CHOOSE me!” What audacity to blame God. Unsaved man goes to hell BECAUSE of his sins.

STUDY YOUR BIBLE FOLKS!


To God Be The Glory

Read the thread
 

Preacher4Truth

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Read the thread
He either did or read enough in the OP he didn't need to read the entirety. Either way, he readily dismantled the premise of your OP.

I mean, you really used a Googled statement and the resulting search page as proof of your false assertions? That's plainly asinine.

Frankly speaking, he is correct, you've created a god to your liking in rejecting the God of Scripture. Your gospel is false my friend.
 
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justbyfaith

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Short and sweet of it? Man clench his fist at God and say, “I’m going to hell BECAUSE YOU DID NOT CHOOSE me!” What audacity to blame God. Unsaved man goes to hell BECAUSE of his sins.

The long and short of it is that man can rightly blame God if Calvinism is the reality.

STUDY YOUR BIBLE FOLKS!

Amen, in doing so you will find that Calvinism is a farce (although a case can be made for the "P" in TULIP).
 
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Preacher4Truth

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The long and short of it is that man can rightly blame God if Calvinism is the reality.

Only those of your ilk, you call God unjust for not doing things your way. God does not owe salvation to anyone, nor does he owe the opportunity to anyone. You say he does and then you're the one who blames God for being Who He Is.

Amen, in doing so you will find that Calvinism is a farce (although a case can be made for the "P" in TULIP).

Wait, aren't you the one who can't even understand simple context, and is guilty of distorting Scripture due to this? Yes, that would be you.
 
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Vince

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Then you are not an atheist--you are an agnostic. Congratulations, you have graduated to being intellectually respectable. (Atheism is not.)
Here is the thing. You don't get to define what I label myself as. I do. What if out of my ignorance of what a Mormon and a christian are I labeled you a Mormon. That is what you did here to me. Out of your ignorance between the difference between an agnostic and atheist you labeled me an agnostic when I label myself an atheist.

An agnostic doesn't think god can be knowable even if he exists. This is a claim that I don't make and I think has insufficient evidence to believe. The definition of atheism is a person with a lack of god belief OR denies god exists. I am an atheist because I lack a belief in god. I don't deny that god exists or that we cannot know if god exists. I don't have sufficient evidence to believe that god does exist. So I am an atheist and not an agnostic. Please refer to me as such.

I don't think it was intended to be an argument--just an illustration. What you are really saying is that you don't know that He exists, but don't care that He might? Even though, if He does, He could resurrect you to the unending torment of dying throughout all eternity--cut off from the only source of well-being?
Not true. I care whether he exists. I just don't have sufficient evidence that he does.

Are you going to bet your eternal destiny against those kinds of odds?
I don't think you read my post. Those odds that the universe is the way it is are reasonable. Anyway, which god do I pick? If I pick the christian god and the muslin god is the true god then I am hosed anyway.

Those physicists who posit the "big bang" say that there was nothing before that time. Are you familiar with the Kalam Cosmological argument?
They are not saying that they believe there was nothing. They are saying it is a possibility.

I am familiar and it has been refuted.
 

Vince

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Why should you not?

For that matter, why should you believe any tales of history are true? Do you believe that there was ever someone called Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Cleopatra and Marc Antony, etc. Why should you believe that their exploits are true?
Did any of these people claim to be god? I think there is sufficient evidence that Jesus existed, I don't think there is sufficient evidence that he was god.
 

CoreIssue

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An agnostic doesn't think god can be knowable even if he exists. This is a claim that I don't make and I think has insufficient evidence to believe. The definition of atheism is a person with a lack of god belief OR denies god exists. I am an atheist because I lack a belief in god. I don't deny that god exists or that we cannot know if god exists. I don't have sufficient evidence to believe that god does exist. So I am an atheist and not an agnostic. Please refer to me as such.

Not true. I care whether he exists. I just don't have sufficient evidence that he does.
An agnostic is one is not sure if God exists.

An atheist declares God does not exist.

So by definition you are an agnostic.

But I have found many agnostics are actually atheists just trying to avoid the label.
 
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Vince

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An agnostic is one is not sure if God exists.

An atheist declares God does not exist.

So by definition you are an agnostic.

But I have found many agnostics are actually atheists just trying to avoid the label.
Your wrong. Please call me an atheist. I fit the definition given by the dictionary I do not fit the definition given by agnostic as I showed already.