CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[Logikos]

Suppressed emotion being projected onto an ‘other’ via religious spiritual bypassing (of emotions directly felt but suppressed).

Okay, Dr. Freud - I mean Dr. Phil - I mean Phil, thank you for that clinical analysis but would you care to rebut his actual argument?

 

[Phil .]

Ok, you can speak confusion.
Got it.
Can you now post something that makes any sense?

Give it a shot @Phil .

More of the same.

 

[brightfame52]

@Logikos

Galatians 5 does not teach that faith is the fruit of the Spirit

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Also Jn Gill writes:

faith; for though fidelity, both in words and actions, which is very ornamental to the Gospel, and a profession of religion may be meant; yet faith in Christ is not to be excluded, as it is generally by interpreters; for this is not of a man's self, nor have all men it: it is a gift of God, the operation of his power, and the work of his Spirit, whence he is styled the spirit of faith; and which therefore must have a place among his fruits; and which lies and shows itself in believing in Christ for salvation, in embracing the doctrines of the Gospel, and making a profession of them, which is called the profession of faith; all which, when right, comes from the Spirit of God.

 

[Behold]

More of the same.

Yes, you are certainly that one.
I agree with you.

 

[brightfame52]

Your are Typical of all blind calvinist's , you didnt keep reading all that Paul wrote.

So, after Paul defines the spiritual condition of Humanity, as their "lost condition" in your Romans 3:11 verse... Paul then CONTINUES and explains the cure... the SOLUTION.

Romans 3:21

21 """"But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law,""""

See that?

YOU NEVER READ THAT PART, and neither did your demonic Master John Calvin the LIAR.

Listen,
Paul is about to show you the Gospel of the Grace of God, that is given to ALL who will BELIEVE.

READ VERSE 22, Mr Hyper Calvinist..

22.) We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ.


See that?

WE ) that is EVERYONE.... has the opportunity.

"ARE made RIGHT with GOD"..

How, Mr Hyper Calvinist??

"BY Placing our FAITH in Jesus Christ".

See that?

That is not "by being predestined to believe" or "being made to believe".,, As your DEVIL of a Theologist (John Calvin) has lied about.
And now you do the same @brightfame52

Man by nature doesnt seek after the True God, has no desire for Him Rom 3:11

Man by nature has a carnal mind that is enmity against the True God, and cant submit/obey Him Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Phil .]

Okay, Dr. Freud - I mean Dr. Phil - I mean Phil, thank you for that clinical analysis but would you care to rebut his actual argument?

Argument: an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.

There is no one who is angry. Anger is an emotion.

The word for conversation, after emotions such as anger have been acknowledged & therein diffused, such that a conversation isn’t an argument (infused with anger) is - resolution.

 

[Phil .]

Yes, you are certainly that one.
I agree with you.

While I appreciate you thinking of me, it won’t Result in resolution / addressing the suppressed anger.

 

[Logikos]

@Logikos



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

The follow is a complete list of all the English versions of the bible that I could find (47 of them) that translate it as "faithfulness" or the equivalent. There are several that I did not quote here that have "faith" in the text but have "or faithfulness" either in parenthesis or as a footnote.

Galatians 5:​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NKJV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (ASV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (CSB)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (CEB)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (CJB)​

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22 God's Spirit makes us loving, happy, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, (CEV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, (DARBY)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (DLNT)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, (DRA)​

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22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (ERV)​

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22 But God's Spirit causes us to live in a different way. We love other people. We are happy and we have peace in our minds. We are patient, kind and good. People can trust us to do what is right. (EASY)​

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22 But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (EHV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (ESV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (ESVUK)​

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22 But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (GW)​

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22 But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (GNT)​

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22 But the Spirit gives love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (ICB)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (ISV)​

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22 The Spirit however, produces in human life fruits such as these: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, fidelity, (PHILLIPS)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (LSB)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (LEB)​

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22 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (TLB)​

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22 By contrast the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (MOUNCE)​

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22 But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NOG)​

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22 In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NABRE)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NASB)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NASB1995)​

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22 In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NCB)​

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22 But the Spirit produces the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NCV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NET)​

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22 But the fruit the Holy Spirit produces is love, joy and peace. It is being patient, kind and good. It is being faithful (NIRV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NIV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NIVUK)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (NLT)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, (NMB)​

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22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NRSV)​

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22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NRSVACE)​

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22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NRSVCE)​

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22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NRSVUE)​

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22 But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, great-heartedness, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, (NTFE)​

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22 But the p’ri of the Ruach HaKodesh is ahavah (agape), simcha (joy), shalom (peace), zitzfleisch (patience), nedivut (generosity, kindness), chesed (loving-kindness), ne’emanut (faithfulness), (OJB)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (RGT)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (RSV)​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (RSVCE)​

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22 But the fruit of the Ruach is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (TLV)​

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22 The Holy Spirit produces a different kind of fruit: unconditional love, joy, peace, patience, kindheartedness, goodness, faithfulness, (VOICE)​

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22 But these are the things which the Spirit wants you to show: love, joy, peace, patience, being kind, being good, being true, (WE)​

 

[Logikos]

While I appreciate you thinking of me, it won’t Result in resolution / addressing the suppressed anger.

Do you plan to address his argument at all or just spout off all day about things you know nothing about?

 

[Phil .]

Do you plan to address his argument at all or just spout off all day about things you know nothing about?

Frustration is also an emotion. Suppression & denial of frustration is projection (someone spouting off).
Argument vs communication, communion, resolution.

In simple terms who cares about an argument.
Have ye no insight & compassion for the life which comes with?

 

[Logikos]

Frustration is also an emotion. Suppression & denial of frustration is projection (someone spouting off).
Argument vs communication, communion, resolution.

You're the one spouting off, not me! All I'm trying to do is get you to focus on things that are relevant.

In simple terms who cares about an argument.

Clearly not you! You seem to care more about psychoanalyzing people as though anyone here cares about that!

Have ye no insight & compassion for the life which comes with?

It would be helpful if you'd use complete sentences.

 

[Phil .]

You're the one spouting off, not me! All I'm trying to do is get you to focus on things that are relevant.

This is what projecting emotions is.
Emotions aren’t things.
There is very literally no one here.

Clearly not you! You seem to care more about psychoanalyzing people as though anyone here cares about that!

What’s being said is not psychoanalytical, yet is being said to be psychoanalytical. “Psyche” is a belief derived of emotional suppression. No one’s ever seen one. A subconscious neither.

One suppressing emotion is consumed and controlled by emotionally reactionary words, actions & behaviors.
As I see the disarray of your words as it were, so too is the life reflected revealed.

It would be helpful if you'd use complete sentences.

That was a complete sentence, and that comment is the evidence of what’s being said. Emotional suppression = not seeing clearly.

 

[Logikos]

This is what projecting emotions is.
Emotions aren’t things.
There is very literally no one here.


What’s being said is not psychoanalytical, yet is being said to be psychoanalytical. “Psyche” is a belief derived of emotional suppression. No one’s ever seen one. A subconscious neither.

One suppressing emotion is consumed and controlled by emotionally reactionary words, actions & behaviors.
As I see the disarray of your words as it were, so too is the life reflected revealed.


That was a complete sentence, and that comment is the evidence of what’s being said. Emotional suppression = not seeing clearly.

LOL!

You're a lunatic! How's that for psychoanalysis!

 

[Phil .]

LOL!

You're a lunatic! How's that for psychoanalysis!

That’s projection of the juvenile name calling flavor, indicative of emotion suppressed at an early age.
The resolve is simple expression, which happens naturally in the absence of the projection.

 

[JBO]

Gal 5:22 doesn’t say faith is a fruit of the Spirit ?

Faith is a gift from God.

Faithfulness comes after receiving the gift of Faith...how can you be faithful to God without the gift of Faith?

New King James Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness

Faith is not a gift.

Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[Wick Stick]

CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

I do not know Calvin or his teaching style, but seems many people do not LIKE him…
Yet curiously talk about him, rather than “quote” their objections of his teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

You can't quote Calvin to refute Calvinism because, ironically... Calvinism wasn't started by Calvin.

Calvinism came into being in opposition to the teachings of Arminius and his followers, the Arminians. This happened two generations after Calvin died in 1564.

 

[Logikos]

You can't quote Calvin to refute Calvinism because, ironically... Calvinism wasn't started by Calvin.

That's just about the most asinine thing I've seen posted on this website! (Not counting Phil's latest post on this thread.)

Calvinism came into being in opposition to the teachings of Arminius and his followers, the Arminians. This happened two generations after Calvin died in 1564.

Utterly nonsensical stupidity - or an intentional lie (perhaps merely a parroted one) - to put it frankly.

Calvinism is called Calvinism because it is the doctrinal system canonized by Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion" (along with his several bible commentaries) which was first published in Latin in 1536 and was instantly popular among the protestants who were being persecuted at the time in France. Calvin then published a much larger volume, basically a second edition in 1539. In 1543 he added yet more material and the final edition appeared in 1559. By then, the work consisted of four books of eighty chapters.

John Calvin himself, not only because of his "Institutes" but also because of his work during the Reformation, enjoyed an international reputation as a reformer independent of Luther (or any other reformer) until he died on the 27th of May 1564 at the age of 54.

Calvin's ideas were first identified as "Calvinism" by Joachim Westphal in 1552, and Calvinism was adopted in the Electorate of the Palatinate under Frederick III, which led to the formulation of the Heidelberg Catechism in 1563. This and the Belgic Confession were adopted as confessional standards in the first synod of the Dutch Reformed Church in 1571 - NOT in reaction or Arminianism and certain not two generations after his death!

 

[Phil .]

Ism means belief.

 

[Logikos]

Ism means belief.

Thank you, Capt. Obvious!

 

[Taken]

I'd say that for most people it isn't about Calvin, its about the doctrinal system that is called Calvinism. However, I personally despise the man almost as much as I do his despicable doctrine. He was a murderous tyrant or so I'm told.

However, we aren't here to debate about historical figures, per se. The doctrine they taught, however, is a different story. Here's a sampling of Calvin's doctrine that I've presented at various times over the past eight years or so. Every bit of what follows is blasphemy and, to date, I have yet to find a single Calvinist who says they disagree with a single syllable of any of it.

“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11​

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“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)​

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”He testifies that He creates light and darkness, forms good and evil (Isaiah 45:7); that no evil happens which He hath not done (Amos 3:6).* Let them tell me whether God exercises His judgments willingly or unwillingly.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 18, Paragraph 3)​

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“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)​

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“… predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 9)​

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“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)​

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“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)​

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“But since he foresees future events only by reason of the fact that he decreed that they take place, they vainly raise a quarrel over foreknowledge, when it is clear that all things take place rather by his determination and bidding.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)​

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“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)​

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"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion Book 5, Chapter 21, paragraph 5)​

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"I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam's children have fallen by God's will...​

...Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23)​

Thanks. There is one word I disagree with…
“that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service”

God IS the source of ALL LIFE.
God DOES give and take LIFE.
God DOES know Before men know, what a man WILL CHOOSE.
God HAS prepared a consequence, a destiny for men WITH Him, and men WITHOUT Him.

God ALL knowing and God ALL prepared…
Does not negate the Freewill Choosing of men.

From these quotes, I do not see a problem…
Perhaps the “Problem” is the meaning of “PREDESTINATION” being construed by some men to mean….MEN are pre-designed to BE EVIL, thus nullifying a Choice….
(I don”t believe that.)

God Created “EVIL”, which is a “THING”, a “CONCEPT” of a behavior, NOT a Person.

God also Established, “PRECEPTS”…
PRE-Knowledge, of Gods teaching of BEHAVIORS God Himself finds acceptable AND most beneficial for BEHAVIORS between and among men., which are found in the OT, amongst the Laws, and taught to practice in the OT and NT.

Neh 9:
[14] And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Glory to God,
Taken