Calvinism

[Waiting on him]

People condemn themselves to Hell. Does God sin for us? Nope.

Oh, but you don't believe in Free will!

Nope, I don't, and neither does the Bible.

But if they don't have free will then God FORCES people to sin!

Again, nope. Men want to sin; God let's them do what they want to do... all the way to Hell.

Are you saying God allows what He hates to accomplish what He loves???

 

[Grailhunter]

People condemn themselves to Hell. Does God sin for us? Nope.

Oh, but you don't believe in Free will!

Nope, I don't, and neither does the Bible.

But if they don't have free will then God FORCES people to sin!

Again, nope. Men want to sin; God let's them do what they want to do... all the way to Hell.

Cat got your tongue! Not wanting to admit your slander!

 

[Mjh29]

Are you saying God allows what He hates to accomplish what He loves???

Exactly. He allows and even USES what He hates to accomplish His purposes.

 

[Mjh29]

Cat got your tongue! Not wanting to admit your slander!

Slander? Like...

Calvinism, by history or doctrine the worst of the bunch.

This kind of slander? And if you really want to get into the Scriptures and what I believe I will tell you. I am not interested in letting you tell me what I believe because you say I believe it, and because it was the straw man you were taught to attack.

 

[Grailhunter]

Exactly. He allows and even USES what He hates to accomplish His purposes.

You know how sacrilegious your religion is, because you hide the truth.

 

[Waiting on him]

You know how sacrilegious your religion is, because you hide the truth.

Where is hell?

 

[Mjh29]

You know how sacrilegious your religion is, because you hide the truth.

Thanks for your opinion... I'll file it with all the other Scripture-less accusations.

 

[Grailhunter]

Slander? Like...


This kind of slander? And if you really want to get into the Scriptures and what I believe I will tell you. I am not interested in letting you tell me what I believe because you say I believe it, and because it was the straw man you were taught to attack.

And if you really want to get into the Scriptures and what I believe I will tell you. I am not interested in letting you tell me what I believe because you say I believe it, and because it was the straw man you were taught to attack.

And all this is a lie too! Attempting to deceive and dodge the truth!! Because you are afraid of the Truth. I am asking you to tell the truth....no straw-man here. Deer in the head lights?

 

[Mjh29]

And if you really want to get into the Scriptures and what I believe I will tell you. I am not interested in letting you tell me what I believe because you say I believe it, and because it was the straw man you were taught to attack.

And all this is a lie too! Attempting to deceive and dodge the truth!! Because you are afraid of the Truth. I am asking you to tell the truth....no straw-man here. Deer in the head lights?

I'm asking you to direct your hatred into one topic at a time, rather than just exploding and raging. I can't explain all of theology to you in one post. Choose a topic.

 

[Waiting on him]

I'm asking you to direct your hatred into one topic at a time, rather than just exploding and raging. I can't explain all of theology to you in one post. Choose a topic.

I just want to know where hell is?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Apparenlty you need some reading skills. That is not before Christ. This is present tense.

I can read, but more importantly, I can comprehend in context. Like all Calvinists with this same western argument, you undoubtedly got from some Calvinist commentary, they overlook that Romans 7 is about the LAW (the ministry of death), and Romans 8 is about the SPIRIT. So it is Law vs. Spirit. Romans 7 shows that the sin nature is intact. Romans 8 shows that we are not in the flesh (sin nature), we are in the Spirit, IF we have the Spirit of God indwelling in us. And if the Spirit is not there making us dead to sin, then we do not belong to Christ.

So think about it. If it is present tense you are saying we are under the law, and Paul lied?

Again, see if you can comprehend this. I will focus on verse 9. It is present tense, right? Was Paul living before Moses, before the law was given. And was he also present with Moses when it was given?

Romans 7:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

 

[Waiting on him]

So if it is present tense you are saying we are under the law?

Are you saying your lawless

 

[CharismaticLady]

I’ve listened to some of his sermons, and as far as I can see is unbelief is in what charismatics allege.

What Charismatics "allege" is that the New Testament is complete and active, nothing has ceased in our New Covenant, just as nothing ceased in the Old covenant until Jesus fulfilled the law. Calvinists are clueless about Covenants.

 

[Waiting on him]

What Charismatics "allege" is that the New Testament is complete and active, nothing has ceased in our New Covenant, just as nothing ceased in the Old covenant until Jesus fulfilled the law. Calvinists are clueless about Covenants.

Is that a yay or a nay?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you saying your lawless

Not being under the law is not lawlessness, but actually deeper than the superficial OT law. But your question in typical.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm asking you to direct your hatred into one topic at a time, rather than just exploding and raging. I can't explain all of theology to you in one post. Choose a topic.

Evasive....You know it wrong but you still peddle this slander. No raging, this is my honor to defend God.
I am saying Calvinism and predestinationists, believes that an entity created heaven, and earth and mankind. I am not sure if they believe if their god took free-will away from Mankind or they never had a chance. For them a sovereign god means everything is a puppet show. From their Mankind if forced to be good or bad by the will of god, by what they call predestination. In effect this belief puts Satan out of business and their god takes over. Pretty much makes judgment day a mute point, since all judgment occurs before they are born.

If every action and thought is under the control of their god, it nullifies, choice, free-will, belief, faith, scriptures, love, grace, prayers, salvation, and good deeds because all of that was forced on them so none of that is to their merit or free-will. Alternatively this entity forces people to be bad, forces them to sin and then damns them to hell. By no sin of their own they are damned to be tortured forever, no free-will, no escape, no mercy, just predetermined damnation.

Historically those that believe they are the “elect” have committed the worst of atrocities. The term “elect” is used to edify themselves, doctrines to damn others to edify themselves. All Christians that believe, are the “elect” not the few that slander God. Evil lurks on the Internet, this is a warning to those that run into it. They come talking of love and scriptures, but it is all a lie! Who need scriptures if you are forced to believe?\

 

[Waiting on him]

And if you really want to get into the Scriptures and what I believe I will tell you. I am not interested in letting you tell me what I believe because you say I believe it, and because it was the straw man you were taught to attack.

And all this is a lie too! Attempting to deceive and dodge the truth!! Because you are afraid of the Truth. I am asking you to tell the truth....no straw-man here. Deer in the head lights?

You posted a lot of scripture telling us who Jesus received authority from, but none of Jesus claiming himself as doing the works?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

You cannot tell the truth because the truth is not in you.

More false accusations. Hmmmm.

Go ahead I dare you.

That's so 3rd grade.

When does your god condemn people to Hell?

First, my God is my LORD, YHWH in Scripture. Secondly, He can condemn anyone he wants to hell at anytime, as all are guilty before God who are not in Christ; Romans 3:19. You disagree with this, and therefore disagree with God: you have Him on trial, you've become His judge. Romans 9:20 lives and breathes through you.

God owes no man grace, and it wouldn't be grace if owed. He doesn't owe any man a chance, nor a choice, He is in debt to no one.

Now you on the other hand are holding God on trial, as guilty before you if He doesn't do as you desire or as you deem fair.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Is that a yay or a nay?

"complete and active" is that we function in the Spirit as they did in the first century. JM believes that has ceased, which is ignorance of Covenant rules.

 

[Mjh29]

I am not sure if they believe if their god took free-will away from Mankind or they never had a chance.

The Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter 6
Section 1.) Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.(1) This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.(2)
(1) Ge 3:13; 2Co 11:3 (2) Ro 11:32
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Section 2.) By this sin, they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God,(1) and so became dead in sin,(2) and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.(3)
(1) Ge 3:6,7,8; Ecc 7:29; Ro 3:23 (2) Ge 2:17; Eph 2:1 (3) Tit 1:15; Ge 6:5; Jer 17:9; Ro 3:10-18
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Section 3.) They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed,(1) and the same death in sin and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation.(2)
(1) Ge 1:27,28; Ge 2:16,17; Ac 17:26; Ro 5:12,15,16,17,18,19; 1Co 15:21,22,45,49 (2) Ps 51:5; Ge 5:3; Job 14:4; Job 15:14
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Section 4.) From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,(1) and wholly inclined to all evil,(2) do proceed all actual transgressions.(3)
(1) Ro 5:6; Ro 8:7; Ro 7:18; Col 1:21 (2) Ge 6:5; Ge 8:21 ; Ro 3:10,11,12 (3) Jas 1:14,15; Eph 2:2,3; Mt 15:19
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Section 5.) This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated;(1) and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.(2)
(1) 1Jn 1:8,10; Ro 7:14,17,18,23; Jas 3:2; Pr 20:9; Ecc 7:20 (2) Ro 7:5,7,8,25; Gal 5:17
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Section 6.) Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto,(1) doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner,(2) whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God,(3) and curse of the law,(4) and so made subject to death,(5) with all miseries spiritual,(6) temporal,(7) and eternal.(8)
(1) 1Jn 3:4 (2) Ro 2:15; Ro 3:9,19 (3) Eph 2:3 (4) Gal 3:10 (5) Ro 6:23 (6) Eph 4:18 (7) Ro 8:20; La 3:39 (8) Mt 25:41; 2Th 1:9