Can a Christian Backslide/lose salvation?

[Christina]

Because if you know what the tribulation bring it says the whole world follows after the beast (that is antichrist/Satan) if you believe the lie that he will be saying he is christ you will be taking the mark of the beast. Many who are believers will be fooled if they do not know the truth of who comes first. those who believe antichrist is christ will be in danger of the second deathwhy are we warned of this among other things there is no doctrine of OSAS

 

[Jackie D]

Quote to Kriss from Jackie:
Quote:He is only in heaven Now because he is held there against his will by Michael, Kriss, will you please show me scripture which says that Satan still is in heaven and held against his will by Michael? thank you
Quote from Kriss:
Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth Satan will be here on earth deceiving all mankind,
you make a point here and I guess my question is: how do any of us know that the 5th trumpet has not sounded?
Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."When Satan and his fallen angles are cast out onto the earth, the "elect" and those who have the seal of God in their minds will overcome them through the power given them in Christ's blood. You are the "elect" when you understand who Satan is, and what will come to pass. God has promised us that we have power over Satan, and God's protection is extended to each of those sealed in their minds.
but haven't we already got the protection and authority over the enemy? I mean if Christ's death and resurrection has defeated the foe and we are given authority over all matters, an example being "what is bound on earth is bound in heaven and what is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven", would that not involve ALL matters including powers and principalities? I get what you are saying but I truly believe that much of Revelation has already occurred....thus leaving me to believe that many things we expect to still happen has long since been fulfilled. But many of us have yet to have our spiritual eyes opened to it and the discernment of the occurrences, revealed.blessings

 

[Christina]

We know that the fifth trump has not finished (it may have begun) because Satan is not here in person claiming to be Christ 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Of course we know this is Satan he must come first that is the end of 5th trump/6th trumpYes we do have power over principalities but we have not yet been tested thru the great delusion that accompanies Satan , the whole World will follow after the beastSo only those who have this truth fixed (sealed in their minds) will not be taken in by Satan and his lies That is knowing that Antichrist/Satan comes first the true Christ not untill the 7th trumpThe Elect will be put on trial by Antichrist and are told Not to premeditate what they will say as God will speak through them (much like on Penecost Day) Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. this is the only time the unforgivable sin can be committed and then only by the Electif they refuse or blasphemy this Holy Spirit that will speak through them. Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

 

[waynemlj]

Hi kriss,I don't know where you are getting your ideas from about the security of slavation, but you need to stop listening to that source and start believing God's Word.Read John chapter 17 carefully and prayerfully. The truth of eternal security for the believer is right there. Do you suppose that Jesus could make such a beautiful prayer to the Father asking Him to guard those the Father has given Him and that the Father will not hear His prayer?Verse 20 says, "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word."That's you and me and all believers before Christ's death and resurrection and after His death and resurrection. There is no time with God. All is present!John 10:28-29, "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my the Father's hand.'Do you see the Absolute Guarantee of eternal serurity He speaks of there?1 Peter 1:3-5, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."Now, that's God's guarantee of eternal security. Once a soul has believed in Christ unto salvation that soul can NOT lose its slavation as is clearly proved in the above Scriptures.John 6:54,56-58 "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.""Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live beause of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."When He says "feeds on my flesh" He is saying "believes in Me."Jesus does not talk about a temporary life that may slip through His fingers, does He? He constantly speaks of eternal life that he died to procure for the believer. Eternal means eternal . . . forever and ever and ever!You must believe in the basics of the Gospel before you go rambling through the Book of Revelation, which you are throwing around everywhere. But the very basic Truths of the Gospel you deny.Very strange, indeed. Once for all, I pray that these Words of God will bless you to see their truth and to have a joyful confidence that once you are saved, you can NOT lose your salvation because God gave it to you, and He will keep it for you by His Sovereign power.waynemlj

 

[Shan Missions]

A drug addict has gone through detoxication. Doctor declared that he was freed from drugs after detox. A few weeks later he has gone back to drug again and hooked. Do you think he is free from drug addiction?Once you are savced by Faith in Jesus Christ, you are a new creation. You must not go back and sin again. If you don't sin again, you will not loose your salvation. But if you sin again and die in sin, you'll not go to heaven. You lost your salvation.2 Cor 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

 

[Christina]

(waynemlj;42759)
Hi kriss,I don't know where you are getting your ideas from about the security of slavation, but you need to stop listening to that source and start believing God's Word.Read John chapter 17 carefully and prayerfully. The truth of eternal security for the believer is right there. Do you suppose that Jesus could make such a beautiful prayer to the Father asking Him to guard those the Father has given Him and that the Father will not hear His prayer?Verse 20 says, "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word."That's you and me and all believers before Christ's death and resurrection and after His death and resurrection. There is no time with God. All is present!John 10:28-29, "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my the Father's hand.'Do you see the Absolute Guarantee of eternal serurity He speaks of there?1 Peter 1:3-5, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."Now, that's God's guarantee of eternal security. Once a soul has believed in Christ unto salvation that soul can NOT lose its slavation as is clearly proved in the above Scriptures.John 6:54,56-58 "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.""Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live beause of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."When He says "feeds on my flesh" He is saying "believes in Me."Jesus does not talk about a temporary life that may slip through His fingers, does He? He constantly speaks of eternal life that he died to procure for the believer. Eternal means eternal . . . forever and ever and ever!You must believe in the basics of the Gospel before you go rambling through the Book of Revelation, which you are throwing around everywhere. But the very basic Truths of the Gospel you deny.Very strange, indeed. Once for all, I pray that these Words of God will bless you to see their truth and to have a joyful confidence that once you are saved, you can NOT lose your salvation because God gave it to you, and He will keep it for you by His Sovereign power.waynemlj
Again it is you who only hears half the Word you hear the promise but you dont hear that the promise is a contract in which you have an active part you dont carry through with your part the promise/contract is worthless.You want to believe you can do whatever you like and you got some kind of guarentee live in the dark but dont try to convince me its light.

 

[His By Grace]

Kriss, you are taking the book of the Revelation and using it to try to prove your points about where Satan is, and what point in time we are right now, when in reality you do not know these things. You are speculating all of this. The book of Revelation was based on John's vision. It isn't constrained by time. Not even all commentators can agree on its interpretation-literal or symbolic. Now, you can say you take everything literal, but you even said that Leviathan in the OT was symbolic, so you don't always take the Bible as literal. You say that the anti-Christ is Satan when that isn't what the text says but you base it on your own theory. You seem to be caught up in the trib./revelation info. so much so that it clouds all of what's going on right now and you even use it to influence most every scripture in the Bible. I think you truly believe what you say; too bad it's just an opinion. Remember, God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

 

[His By Grace]

Added thought: Please take this in the spirit in which it's intended! No harm; only helpful. I know some people's opinions don't seem to be respected while others' opionions are. As long as they aren't totally against Bible teachings, I don't see why we can't let it be. We will receive the same measure of whatever we give out- good or bad.

 

[waynemlj]

Hi forgivenWretch,I like your one-line response to Franklyn. If a believer in God's Word says that he agrees with a specific Scripture (that means he understands it, of course), then he can not come back with "BUT."He can only ask for help to understand why or how it "appears" to contradict with some other Scripture. God's Word does not contradict itself . . . ever! Only our incorrect understanding makes us think so.That's why this Christian Board is so good. We get a chance to get somebody else's views and maybe another Scripture will surface and satisfy the misunderstanding. We must be patient with ourselves and with each other as we travel this road of learning about our God together.waynemlj

 

[Elf]

(Shan Missions;42837)
A drug addict has gone through detoxication.
Ok, he was detoxed!
Doctor declared that he was freed from drugs after detox.
This Dr. shouldn't have a license, the poor man was mislead.
A few weeks later he has gone back to drug again and hooked. Do you think he is free from drug addiction?
Absolutely Not! he might have thought he was because of what the Dr. said.
Once you are savced by Faith in Jesus Christ, you are a new creation. You must not go back and sin again. If you don't sin again, you will not loose your salvation. But if you sin again and die in sin, you'll not go to heaven. You lost your salvation.
Where do I find this verse in the bible?

:study:---So we have to be perfect? Our salvation is based on us being perfect? That is legalism!
2 Cor 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
This verse in it's context summarizes the Christian's unity with Christ (the Savior), "their experience of redemption."This is a problem I have always had with the Christian community, that is, why use worldly analogies? doesn't scripture support scripture? Do you feel God's word falls short and you need to help it? For example:
Doctor declared that he was freed from drugs after detox.
Now obviously you mean, "the drug or drugs were out of his system" but you wrote: "the Dr. declared he was free from drugs" anyone knows, unless God delivered a person from drug addiction, he is "not free" of it, and this is something a Dr."obviously" knows as well. ---See what I mean? This type of analogy is not even accurate to fit the verse. Even if it was, why would a Christian want to use it? If I worked for a major corporation and you came to a meeting to learn about our product. What would you want to hear from me, My company policies, rules and product? or would you rather hear me speaking about another company's policies, rules and products to help you understand mine, even though they are totally different than mine, not the same products ect... I also don't think my "Boss" would much appreciate it. I probably wouldn't have my job for long. My Boss would expect of me, not only to know the policies, rules and products but, also to relate these as well, not someone else's. My enthusiasm would only show I am trying to impress with something different because of My lack of knowledge about our policies because of laziness on my part. All I mean is, do you believe in God and His word? Do you believe His word is knowledge, wisdom and spirit inspired? How many more Doctor stories and other related stories would you have to create to help interpret and understand God's verse? Why not just use what God has already written?Respectfully,Elf

 

[Shan Missions]

(Elf;42954)
Ok, he was detoxed! This Dr. shouldn't have a license, the poor man was mislead. Absolutely Not! he might have thought he was because of what the Dr. said. Where do I find this verse in the bible?

:study:---So we have to be perfect? Our salvation is based on us being perfect? That is legalism! This verse in it's context summarizes the Christian's unity with Christ (the Savior), "their experience of redemption."This is a problem I have always had with the Christian community, that is, why use worldly analogies? doesn't scripture support scripture? Do you feel God's word falls short and you need to help it? For example:Now obviously you mean, "the drug or drugs were out of his system" but you wrote: "the Dr. declared he was free from drugs" anyone knows, unless God delivered a person from drug addiction, he is "not free" of it, and this is something a Dr."obviously" knows as well. ---See what I mean? This type of analogy is not even accurate to fit the verse. Even if it was, why would a Christian want to use it? If I worked for a major corporation and you came to a meeting to learn about our product. What would you want to hear from me, My company policies, rules and product? or would you rather hear me speaking about another company's policies, rules and products to help you understand mine, even though they are totally different than mine, not the same products ect... I also don't think my "Boss" would much appreciate it. I probably wouldn't have my job for long. My Boss would expect of me, not only to know the policies, rules and products but, also to relate these as well, not someone else's. My enthusiasm would only show I am trying to impress with something different because of My lack of knowledge about our policies because of laziness on my part. All I mean is, do you believe in God and His word? Do you believe His word is knowledge, wisdom and spirit inspired? How many more Doctor stories and other related stories would you have to create to help interpret and understand God's verse? Why not just use what God has already written?Respectfully,Elf
Elf,Thanks for your very UNRESPECTFUL remark (you are just a real hypocrite when you say respecfully) on my opinion.Why do I use doctor as illustration? Jusus used doctor in His illustration.Mark 2:1717 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor , but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Luke 5:31-3231 Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor , but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Don't be so arrogant. Think twice before you speak. Pl tell me what qualifications you have to insult other people's opinion?

 

[Elf]

(Shan Missions;42837)
A drug addict has gone through detoxication. Doctor declared that he was freed from drugs after detox. A few weeks later he has gone back to drug again and hooked. Do you think he is free from drug addiction?Once you are savced by Faith in Jesus Christ, you are a new creation. You must not go back and sin again. If you don't sin again, you will not loose your salvation. But if you sin again and die in sin, you'll not go to heaven. You lost your salvation.2 Cor 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

=Shan Missions;42959]Elf,Thanks for your very UNRESPECTFUL remark (you are just a real hypocrite when you say respecfully) on my opinion.
Yes, this is your opinion, I take no offense. But do you mean I am a hypocrite in general? or just in relation to my post?
Why do I use doctor as illustration? Jusus used doctor in His illustration.Mark 2:1717 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor , but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Luke 5:31-3231 Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor , but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
Yes He did, do you understand Jesus's meaning here? Mark 2:15-16, Jesus heard the pharisees asking His disciples why He was reclining and eating with tax collectors and sinners? Vs 17 is His answer, a perfect answer, I might add, one the Pharisees would understand. Why do you think the Pharisees hated Him so much?---Why would you want to explain scripture with politics and secular stories? when you have scripture?
Don't be so arrogant. Think twice before you speak. Pl tell me what qualifications you have to insult other people's opinion?
I can see I ruffled your feathers, I am sorry, I did not mean to insult you, not by any means. But I don't have to agree with your opinion, as I am sure you will not agree with all of mine.My only concern was, why does the Christian community not use scripture when it is scripture that is to be used? Why use a carnal illustration, analogy or apology to interpret scripture? Especially when it is misinterpreting a particular passage and robing its true meaning? Even at our best attempts we humans, fall short, where scripture does not.No offense but your analogy has nothing to do with the scripture you presented, in the process you changed it's meaning. And in this sense I am qualified, not to insult you, but, to call your attention to what the scriptures are actually teaching. Remember, teachers will have a stricter judgment.Again, I sincerely apologize if I have insulted you "personally". I know your intentions are good. Elf

 

[Elf]

Shan Missions,Could you or anyone else show me where scripture, "in context," teaches a "regenerated Christian" can loose his or her salvation?

 

[Letsgofishing]

• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.​

 

[Elf]

(Letsgofishing;42976)

• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.​

Revelation 2:10, Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.---------How does this dis-prove OSAS? Who was this written to? The angel of the church in Smyrna. Angel (Aggelos #32) Aggelos: is not a name of nature, but of office, or human messenger; a bishop or presiding elder of a particular church. This is a letter of encouragement, in a situation where the church is ready to face tribulations. It does not say be faithful or your salvation will be lost.

 

[thiefonthecross]

I am a fairly new Christian but I do not believe we can loose our salvation , but I do believe you must truely be saved to start with. When I first gave my life to the Lord I was very naive , I would openly speak to anyone who went to a church, I just assumed they were christians, they would look at me like I was some kind of radical . I quickly learned that not every one who calls themself a christian knows the Lord.I take comfort in Jacob , if he can be justified then there is hope for us all. God calls him a "Worm" in a few different places and yet still justified him.I also take comfort in Genesis 7 v16 ..............and the Lord shut him in.If you trust in Jesus , then you are justified .I dont know how anyone can say if you even sin once after salvation you are not saved. Then our salvation is up to us and not with Jesus . So wouldnt scripture say for by works you are saved and not by grace so every man can boast?

My hope is in Jesus alone with out the hope of salvation I have no hope at all

 

[Letsgofishing]

But the theory behind OSAS is that a christian cannot stray off course and lose his salvation after he is saved. And yet God wastes his time telling his followers to be faithful until death. Why would he do that, if they could not lose salvation. There are several verses like this, just read my ultra colorful

super long post located both on your thread and this one.

 

[Elf]

(Letsgofishing;42976)

• "...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Revelation 2:10.​

(theifonthecross;42983)
I am a fairly new Christian but I do not believe we can loose our salvation , but I do believe you must truely be saved to start with. When I first gave my life to the Lord I was very naive , I would openly speak to anyone who went to a church, I just assumed they were christians, they would look at me like I was some kind of radical . I quickly learned that not every one who calls themself a christian knows the Lord.I take comfort in Jacob , if he can be justified then there is hope for us all. God calls him a "Worm" in a few different places and yet still justified him.I also take comfort in Genesis 7 v16 ..............and the Lord shut him in.If you trust in Jesus , then you are justified .I dont know how anyone can say if you even sin once after salvation you are not saved. Then our salvation is up to us and not with Jesus . So wouldnt scripture say for by works you are saved and not by grace so every man can boast?

My hope is in Jesus alone with out the hope of salvation I have no hope at all
For a "fairly new Christian" you speak words of wisdom! Amen brother.God Bless.

 

[Letsgofishing]

I like OSAS to think that I can't fall away from god, its a beautiful belief. The Problem is to believe in it you have to ignore half the Bible!!! I Think that price is a little steep.

 

[Elf]

(Letsgofishing;42984)
But the theory behind OSAS is that a christian cannot stray off course and lose his salvation after he is saved.
Well it is not speculation, if this is what you are implying. The proof is in the pudding, the Bible
And yet God wastes his time telling his followers to be faithful until death. Why would he do that, if they could not lose salvation.
How is this a waste of time? God is very much involved in our lives, and is also very encouraging. To be reassured, that after this life a crown is waiting for us? This is very encouraging, is it not? Blessed assurance! Oh how we need this! God is not subject to time, so it is no waste, and His followers are His (chosen) elect. He is our, redeemer, mediator and priest (intercessor).
There are several verses like this, just read my ultra colorful

super long post located both on your thread and this one.
Ill check it out, I am sure it will be interesting.