Can LGBTQ individuals be saved?

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Rotsen777

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Last time I checked this is a Bible forum.
First of all, thanks for your candid responses and I hope the truth is the fruit of thy wisdom in any conversation like this, and that reasons may spontaneously spring from your mouth without measures.

To be exact, we are now on the Christian Debate Forum page. I hope you’ll agree that Christians are followers of the real and forever living Christ Jesus, and their object and focus of FAITH is the Lord Jesus Christ [alone]. Are we on the same train [in this context] bound to the kingdom of the Living God, whose name is Jesus?

Last time I checked this is a Bible forum. We discuss the Bible. And the Bible contains 66 books.

There is another Bible from the Catholic church, which contains more than 66 books. What is the point you’re trying to emphasize in this part of our conversation?

We discuss the whole council, its 66 books are considered inspired.
Who decided the sixty-six books were inspired? I’m sure God was not the one who did, was He?
If you consider less than its 66 books inspired, as you do,

What’s the big deal if I consider them all ‘not inspired,’ as you claimed? Would that take a toll on my soul? Have you heard from the Lord Jesus that the inspiration of the sixty-six books absolutely came from Him? If not, what benefits then could your belief on the inspiration of those books may bring to the destiny of your soul?

naturally we end up in conflicting opinions and belief systems.

Who or what is the lone essential in the salvation and eternal life of your soul, the Bible, or the real and forever living Christ Jesus Himself, who is always beside you in a 24/7 watch mode for those who will come to Him for the salvation and eternal life of their souls? However, we do not yet see Him.

We need the truth from the Lord Jesus Christ alone, who continues to Shepherd and guide those [across all generations] who come to Him looking for salvation and eternal life.

For the record, which of the 66 books of the Bible do you consider truth ?

Hold your breath - NONE among the sixty-six books is the Truth? Ask me why, will you?

The bible itself does not claim what you firmly claim for itself now - as the Truth. The Bible testifies to us that the Truth is the real and forever living Christ Jesus alone, who is the Almighty God.

I hope you can reconsider your take on the Bible, which surely can’t save your soul, come what may! Kindly put the focus and object of your Faith In God in the right perspective, which is the real and forever living Christ Jesus alone. He is just a call away from you all the time!
Last time I checked this is a Bible forum. We discuss the Bible. And the Bible contains 66 books.

We discuss the whole council, its 66 books are considered inspired.

If you consider less than its 66 books inspired, as you do, naturally we end up in conflicting opinions and belief systems.

For the record, which of the 66 books of the Bible do you consider truth ?
 
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Rotsen777

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St. SteVen said:

I'm guessing that you're not married.
Have been widowed for five years. Have three kids, all boys!

A married couple only needs one house, one bed, one coffee maker.
Of course, one good and nice family under one roof.
They are one flesh.
Sorry, but that is only a claim, which obviously and evidently is a ‘tangible lie’ if you open your eyes wider than the horizon when the sun sets in the west - the one flesh is the offspring, not the couples.
 
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St. SteVen

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Sorry, but that is only a claim, which obviously and evidently is a ‘tangible lie’ if you open your eyes wider than the horizon when the sun sets in the west - the one flesh is the offspring, not the couples.
Do you contend that this scripture is referring to the offspring of a married couple?
If so, how would a child be separated?

Mark 10:7-9 NIV
‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[a]
8 and the two will become one flesh.’[b] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
 

Rotsen777

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Do you contend that this scripture is referring to the offspring of a married couple?
If so, how would a child be separated?

Mark 10:7-9 NIV
‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[a]
8 and the two will become one flesh.’[b] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Do you contend that this scripture is referring to the offspring of a married couple?
Yes, I’m 100 % sure about that ‘one flesh’ issue.
If so, how would a child be separated?

What are you talking about when the child is the product of the union of an egg cell and a sperm cell from the couple through coitus? The child is a gift [to the couple] from God. Why would the child be separated, separated from what?

Mark 10:7-9 NIV
‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[a]
8 and the two will become one flesh.’[b] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Verse 8 is tangibly wrong, as well as wrongly worded. The correct narrative in verse 8, according to the Lord Jesus Christ, reads this way, to wit:

7. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,

8. And I will give them one flesh.

Note: The Lord Jesus Christ came into our lives from 2001 to 2014, and He shepherded and guided us in that span of time. He conducted tutorial lessons with us in the bible and in His fresh utterances. This ‘one flesh’ issue about the couple in marriage was one among the many lessons He taught us.

Thus saith the Lord God Jesus Christ:

All of you who are listening, listen carefully! I am your Lord God. Who are you afraid of? I am the Almighty. Who are you intimidated by? Remember, when I am by your side, you have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, because I will save you from any calamity if you trust in Me and regard Me as your salvation and eternal life. As your Lord, whom you alone will worship and none other, I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or universe. I created all things, I gave you life. Where will you go? If not to Me, you have nowhere else to go.
 

St. SteVen

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What are you talking about when the child is the product of the union of an egg cell and a sperm cell from the couple through coitus? The child is a gift [to the couple] from God. Why would the child be separated, separated from what?
That's why your interpretation doesn't work.
If the one flesh is a married couple, then separating them would be divorce.
If the one flesh is a child, it makes no sense to separate what was joined together. (vs 9)

Mark 10:7-9 NIV
‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[a]
8 and the two will become one flesh.’[b] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
 
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Rotsen777

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That's why your interpretation doesn't work.
If the one flesh is a married couple, then separating them would be divorce.
Are you okay? They are two separate beings (fleshes), come what may! What joined them together as a couple is their marriage contract. When they get divorced, their marriage becomes null and void.
If the one flesh is a child, it makes no sense to separate what was joined together. (vs 9)
There you are with your opinion. Verse 9 is with reference to marriage contract, while verse 8 is with reference to the output - the offspring.
Mark 10:7-9 NIV
‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[a]
8 and the two will become one flesh.’[b] So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
As per the Lord’s direct utterance:

7 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and I’ll give them one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
 

bdavidc

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""A person cannot claim Christ while continuing to live in a sinful lifestyle.""
Do you claim you no longer willfully sin ?
Are you brave enough to take a simple test ? :)
That question sounds clever, but it dodges the real issue Scripture is addressing. No Christian claims sinless perfection. The Word of God already settled that. “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” ~1 John 1:8. Every believer still fights the flesh.

But that is not the question Scripture asks. The real question is this: what is the direction of your life?

The Word of God does not describe the believer as someone who makes peace with sin. It describes someone who has turned from it. “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD” ~Isaiah 55:7.

Repentance is not playing games with sin. It is abandoning it.

Paul could not have been clearer. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” ~Romans 6:1-2.

Notice the language. Dead to sin. Not negotiating with it. Not defending it. Dead to it.

That is why Scripture speaks of a changed life. “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus” ~1 Corinthians 6:11.

Were. Past tense. The fog clears right there. The gospel does not say sinners cannot come to Christ. The gospel says sinners must come and leave the sin behind.

Jesus said it plainly. “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” ~Luke 9:23. The cross is not a decoration. It is a death sentence to the old life.

So the issue is not whether a man ever stumbles. The issue is whether he loves the sin, excuses the sin, and insists on keeping the sin. Because the same Word that offers mercy also gives this warning: Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous… He that committeth sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7-8.

That is not my opinion. That is the line God Himself drew.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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We were all sinners. We all died to ourselves , our ways; so we did not continue practicing our former lives of murdering, lying, stealing, drugs, drunkeness, fornication, etc. When you believe in Christ, there is a change. God changes you and helps you to overcome those addictions, bad habits, lusts. You begin to do what He tells you to do and what not to do.
When the adulteress woman was about to be stoned to death, He said, "Whoever is without sin, cast the first stone". But He also said, "GO AND SIN NO MORE". She listened, believed and was obedient. Do you think she would be saved if she continued her adulterous life? Nope. If you don't change ( die to yourself) and others don't see this change /repent, you really don't believe nor are you saved.

God spoke through Paul who laid it out:
"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
Rom. 1:26-27


If you come out of that lifestyle, the door is open to salvation. DO NOT BE DECEIVED TO THINK YOU CAN REMAIN IN IT AND BE SAVED!
 
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rvmb

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That question sounds clever, but it dodges the real issue Scripture is addressing. No Christian claims sinless perfection. The Word of God already settled that. “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” ~1 John 1:8. Every believer still fights the flesh.

But that is not the question Scripture asks. The real question is this: what is the direction of your life?

The Word of God does not describe the believer as someone who makes peace with sin. It describes someone who has turned from it. “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD” ~Isaiah 55:7.

Repentance is not playing games with sin. It is abandoning it.

Paul could not have been clearer. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” ~Romans 6:1-2.

Notice the language. Dead to sin. Not negotiating with it. Not defending it. Dead to it.

That is why Scripture speaks of a changed life. “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus” ~1 Corinthians 6:11.

Were. Past tense. The fog clears right there. The gospel does not say sinners cannot come to Christ. The gospel says sinners must come and leave the sin behind.

Jesus said it plainly. “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” ~Luke 9:23. The cross is not a decoration. It is a death sentence to the old life.

So the issue is not whether a man ever stumbles. The issue is whether he loves the sin, excuses the sin, and insists on keeping the sin. Because the same Word that offers mercy also gives this warning: Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous… He that committeth sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7-8.

That is not my opinion. That is the line God Himself drew.
""That question sounds clever,""
Simple questions are often clever, yes, you still sin or no you don't.
If claim no, are you brave enough to take a simple test ? :)
Repentance is not playing games with sin. It is abandoning it.
""The real question is this: what is the direction of your life?""

Verses please where Paul teaches those as conditions to be justified/saved/sealed
“And such were some of you:..."
Verses please where Paul teaches any level of sin in a saints life = loss of justification
""If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me”
Verses please where Paul teaches that as a condition to be justified/saved/sealed.
"He that committeth sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7-8.""
Yet you have already confessed/alluded that you still sin
 

bdavidc

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""That question sounds clever,""
Simple questions are often clever, yes, you still sin or no you don't.
If claim no, are you brave enough to take a simple test ? :)
Repentance is not playing games with sin. It is abandoning it.
""The real question is this: what is the direction of your life?""

Verses please where Paul teaches those as conditions to be justified/saved/sealed
“And such were some of you:..."
Verses please where Paul teaches any level of sin in a saints life = loss of justification
""If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me”
Verses please where Paul teaches that as a condition to be justified/saved/sealed.
"He that committeth sin is of the devil” ~1 John 3:7-8.""
Yet you have already confessed/alluded that you still sin
You keep demanding verses from Paul, so let’s stay right there. Paul does not describe salvation as a permission slip to keep serving sin. He says the exact opposite. “How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” ~Romans 6:2. Dead men do not keep living the same old life.

Then he draws the line even clearer. “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are… whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” ~Romans 6:16. A man cannot serve two masters and pretend it means nothing.

Paul then reminds believers what happened when they came to Christ. “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin… Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness” ~Romans 6:17-18. Notice the language. Were. Past tense. A change of master.

And if someone still wants to play games with sin, Paul gives the warning without softening it. “Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers… shall inherit the kingdom of God” ~1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

That cuts straight through the fog. A believer may stumble and run to Christ for mercy. But the man who defends his sin, protects it, and insists on keeping it is not describing the life Paul taught. Scripture says plainly, “Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity” ~2 Timothy 2:19.
 

rvmb

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You keep demanding verses from Paul, so let’s stay right there. Paul does not describe salvation as a permission slip to keep serving sin. He says the exact opposite. “How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” ~Romans 6:2. Dead men do not keep living the same old life.

Then he draws the line even clearer. “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are… whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” ~Romans 6:16. A man cannot serve two masters and pretend it means nothing.

Paul then reminds believers what happened when they came to Christ. “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin… Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness” ~Romans 6:17-18. Notice the language. Were. Past tense. A change of master.

And if someone still wants to play games with sin, Paul gives the warning without softening it. “Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers… shall inherit the kingdom of God” ~1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

That cuts straight through the fog. A believer may stumble and run to Christ for mercy. But the man who defends his sin, protects it, and insists on keeping it is not describing the life Paul taught. Scripture says plainly, “Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity” ~2 Timothy 2:19.
Verses do the talking not opinions.
Let's see if you can list Scripture WITHOUT your interpretation :)
*****
""You keep demanding verses from Paul,""
Acts 9:15, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12, 1 Tim 1:16 << That's why
Only Paul has the Christ given role as Apostle & Minister to teach Salvation to believers 'today'
If you disagree, list the verses that teach Christ gave the 12 authority over Paul to teach salvation to Paul's audience today.
""Romans 6:2. Dead men do not keep living the same old life.""
Are you going to state you no longer sin ?
List the verses from Paul that teach 'PERFORMANCE' is a condition to be saved/sealed/justified.
“Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers…""
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified....
AGAIN, list the verses where Paul teaches 'PERFORMANCE' is a requirement to be saved/justified/sealed
 
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bdavidc

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Verses do the talking not opinions.
Let's see if you can list Scripture WITHOUT your interpretation :)
*****
""You keep demanding verses from Paul,""
Acts 9:15, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12, 1 Tim 1:16 << That's why
Only Paul has the Christ given role as Apostle & Minister to teach Salvation to believers 'today'
If you disagree, list the verses that teach Christ gave the 12 authority over Paul to teach salvation to Paul's audience today.
""Romans 6:2. Dead men do not keep living the same old life.""
Are you going to state you no longer sin ?
List the verses from Paul that teach 'PERFORMANCE' is a condition to be saved/sealed/justified.
“Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers…""
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified....
AGAIN, list the verses where Paul teaches 'PERFORMANCE' is a requirement to be saved/justified/sealed
You asked for verses without my interpretation, but that is exactly what I already gave you. I simply quoted Paul and let the text speak for itself.

Romans says, “How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” ~Romans 6:2. That is not my interpretation. Those are Paul’s words.

Paul also says, “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” ~Romans 6:16. Again, that is simply the text.

Then he says, “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin… Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness” ~Romans 6:17-18.

And the warning stands exactly as written: “Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers… shall inherit the kingdom of God” ~1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

None of that is my interpretation. Those are direct statements from Paul.

You asked whether I claim I no longer sin. Paul already answered that question: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” ~1 John 1:8. Believers still struggle with the flesh.

But Scripture also says believers are not to continue living under the dominion of sin. Paul writes, “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” ~Romans 6:14.

So the verses already answer the issue. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works, as written: “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast” ~Ephesians 2:8-9.

At the same time, the same passage continues, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10.

That is not my interpretation. That is simply the full testimony of Scripture.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Verses do the talking not opinions.
Let's see if you can list Scripture WITHOUT your interpretation :)
*****
""You keep demanding verses from Paul,""
Acts 9:15, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 1:11-12, 1 Tim 1:16 << That's why
In all those verses, none suggest that Paul was to give a different message to present to the gentiles than Peter was given to witness to the Jews. Same message, different audience....though Paul at times was scathing when speaking about the Jewish leadership, as the foremost case of the persecution of Christ’s disciples, no one had more right to do that.

When Judas defected and betrayed his Master, a replacement was needed.....why did God choose Matthias? Why did he not wait for Paul?

Paul was an “apostle to the nations”, as well as to “the sons of Israel”.....but his mission involved addressing men in power, where uneducated fishermen would not have held any credibility. ((Acts 9:15-16) Immediately, he began preaching in the Synagogues. (Acts 9:20-22) The Jewish leaders were so incensed that one of their own was exposing them, they plotted to kill him. (Acts 9:23-25) What did he preach to the Jews that was a different Christ to the Gentiles?

So inferring that Paul had a different message or gospel about the Christ in his day, is false.
Only Paul has the Christ given role as Apostle & Minister to teach Salvation to believers 'today'
Nonsense. Paul was not one of the 12....who were made the very foundations of God’s Kingdom. (Rev 21:14)

Paul played a very important role in addressing the people of the nations especially the learned philosophers and rulers of the day.....one who could hold his own with such an audience who could not argue with his education. His address at the Areopagus was a masterful example. (Acts 17:22-31)
If you disagree, list the verses that teach Christ gave the 12 authority over Paul to teach salvation to Paul's audience today.
Paul received the same education that the other apostles did...the only difference was that Christ in spirit taught Paul all he needed to fulfill his assignment. The other apostles did not need to teach him anything, but they all had one belief and one assignment (1 Cor 1:10)....and that was to spread the gospel of the Kingdom “in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations” (Matt 24:14: 28:19-20).....one message of salvation to both Jews and Gentiles. (Rom 10:12-13) But they have to be calling on the right “Lord”. (Joel 2:32; Zeph 3:9)
""Romans 6:2. Dead men do not keep living the same old life.""
Are you going to state you no longer sin ?
List the verses from Paul that teach 'PERFORMANCE' is a condition to be saved/sealed/justified.
What is this “performance” you speak of?
Being in imperfect flesh, even Paul was aware that his salvation was not a given...he had to live and die faithful. (1 Cor 9:24-27)

When the Scriptures speak of “works”, it is referring to ‘works of the Law’ whom the Jews failed in all their history to carry out successfully. Why did God give a perfect Law to imperfect people? To demonstrate to them, the need for a Savior...one who would fulfill the Law, and take its “curse” away from them. (Rom 10:2-4; Rom 7:14-25; Gal 10:10)
“Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers…""
1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified....
AGAIN, list the verses where Paul teaches 'PERFORMANCE' is a requirement to be saved/justified/sealed
“That is what some of you were” means that in the past, they committed sins deserving of death under the Law....but now, since Christ’s sacrifice, and their acceptance of its terms and conditions.....repentance and a determined effort to avoid the act of sinning, even whilst sin still resides in their flesh, they were not without a means to be forgiven, but only if repentance was genuine.

Christ’s sacrifice has conditions....because there are two kinds of “sin” (an archery term that means to miss the mark) “Sin” is inborn as a result of inheriting the propensity to commit sinful acts from a sinful heart. But not all sin is deserving of death. On a regular basis, the Jews could be forgiven of their daily sins by sacrificing an animal, whose blood temporarily atoned for their sin.
Jesus’ blood is what provided the permanent solution to sin for those who accepted him as God’s Savior. Did it mean that all sins were automatically atoned for before they were even committed? No.

That was not the message at all.....in order to demonstrate the faith we profess as Christians, our lifestyle has to show that we accept Christ’s teachings in our everyday life. We should stand out as different from the world alienated from the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. We live by Christ’s teachings, not finding ways to justify sin.

If we take the position that we can still sin with impunity, we are sacrificing the Christ all over again by devaluing his teachings as not applying to us.....they apply to all who put faith in his sacrifice, not ever taking it for granted, but in every way showing ourselves worthy of it....like Paul did.
 
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rvmb

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You asked for verses without my interpretation, but that is exactly what I already gave you. I simply quoted Paul and let the text speak for itself.

Romans says, “How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” ~Romans 6:2. That is not my interpretation. Those are Paul’s words.

Paul also says, “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” ~Romans 6:16. Again, that is simply the text.

Then he says, “But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin… Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness” ~Romans 6:17-18.

And the warning stands exactly as written: “Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers… shall inherit the kingdom of God” ~1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

None of that is my interpretation. Those are direct statements from Paul.

You asked whether I claim I no longer sin. Paul already answered that question: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” ~1 John 1:8. Believers still struggle with the flesh.

But Scripture also says believers are not to continue living under the dominion of sin. Paul writes, “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” ~Romans 6:14.

So the verses already answer the issue. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works, as written: “For by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works, lest any man should boast” ~Ephesians 2:8-9.

At the same time, the same passage continues, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10.

That is not my interpretation. That is simply the full testimony of Scripture.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
the Gospel by which believers 'today' ARE saved, ARE justified, ARE sealed
Believe/trust the Gospel = ARE <<< notice the tense ?
Are, not will be but ARE.
***
Eph 2:8-9, Titu 3:5-7, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Those verses teach the level of believer 'performance' that is required to be saved/sealed/justified << NONE.
**
Are your verses an attempt to teach that a level of believer performance is ALSO required in addition to 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
If so list the verses from Paul that clearly teach faith ALONE in the Gospel is not enough to be saved/sealed/justified.
 
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Rotsen777

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1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
the Gospel by which believers 'today' ARE saved, ARE justified, ARE sealed
Believe/trust the Gospel = ARE <<< notice the tense ?
Are, not will be but ARE.
***
Eph 2:8-9, Titu 3:5-7, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Those verses teach the level of believer 'performance' that is required to be saved/sealed/justified << NONE.
**
Are your verses an attempt to teach that a level of believer performance is ALSO required in addition to 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
If so list the verses from Paul that clearly teach faith ALONE in the Gospel is not enough to be saved/sealed/justified.
The gospel saves no one, does it? What really saves us from our sins?
 

soberxp

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All sins can be forgiveness, only The sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

Is LGBTQ people The sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit
 

PS95

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1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
the Gospel by which believers 'today' ARE saved, ARE justified, ARE sealed
Believe/trust the Gospel = ARE <<< notice the tense ?
Are, not will be but ARE.
***
Eph 2:8-9, Titu 3:5-7, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1
Those verses teach the level of believer 'performance' that is required to be saved/sealed/justified << NONE.
**
Are your verses an attempt to teach that a level of believer performance is ALSO required in addition to 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
If so list the verses from Paul that clearly teach faith ALONE in the Gospel is not enough to be saved/sealed/justified.
What you don't seem to understand is that while yes of course, we are saved by grace thru faith in Jesus- that faith causes a regeneration to take place within the believer- a gift from God- a new creation is born- being born of the Spirit- we no longer are under the dominion of sin like we once were. Sin has lost it's power over us. Before we did as we pleased and did not care. Now we are new and made new inwardly and because we now love God because He first loved us- we want to live in a way that is pleasing to Him. We are now able to put the deeds of our sinful flesh to death by the Spirit. - we now are to walk in the Spirit. This is very real! Read and understand
Romans chapter 6-
A believer who denies that reality may want to test himself to see if he is really in the faith. Is Christ in you? have you partaken of His Spirit?
Do you still live according to your flesh? Or do you see yourself rejecting sin and you have lost the desire to sin like you once lived,,? Do you know that the Lord is helping you now? Are you aware of His presence?
Do we slip up on occasion? Yes but it is not intentional but it happens. And we feel horrible when we slip up. It is usually in thought or word. We confess it and are forgiven in the blood of Jesus- we have confidence in his sacrifice for all time-, we don't want to sin.-
We no longer walk in sin..

It is a battle of flesh v Spirit-
but we have the full armour of God. -
Ephesians 6:10-18

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness arrayed, and with your feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition. To this end, stay alert with all perseverance in your prayers for all the saints."


I hope you comprehend this post. I can't get much clearer than this. Most believers just understand since they also live it.
 

Rotsen777

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What you don't seem to understand is that while yes of course, we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus- that faith causes a regeneration to take place within the believer- a gift from God- a new creation is born- being born of the Spirit- we no longer are under the dominion of sin like we once were. Sin has lost it's power over us. Before we did as we pleased and did not care. Now we are new and made new inwardly and because we now love God because He first loved us- we want to live in a way that is pleasing to Him. We are now able to put the deeds of our sinful flesh to death by the Spirit. - we now are to walk in the Spirit. This is very real! Read and understand
Romans chapter 6-
A believer who denies that reality may want to test himself to see if he is really in the faith. Is Christ in you? have you partaken of His Spirit?
Do you still live according to your flesh? Or do you see yourself rejecting sin and you have lost the desire to sin like you once lived,,? Do you know that the Lord is helping you now? Are you aware of His presence?
Do we slip up on occasion? Yes but it is not intentional but it happens. And we feel horrible when we slip up. It is usually in thought or word. We confess it and are forgiven in the blood of Jesus- we have confidence in his sacrifice for all time-, we don't want to sin.-
We no longer walk in sin..

It is a battle of flesh v Spirit-
but we have the full armour of God. -
Ephesians 6:10-18

"Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness arrayed, and with your feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition. To this end, stay alert with all perseverance in your prayers for all the saints."


I hope you comprehend this post. I can't get much clearer than this. Most believers just understand since they also live it.
How could you be saved by grace through faith in Jesus when you’ve heard nothing yet from Christ? What exactly did you do that makes you think Grace through Faith in Jesus saved you?