Can Priests Forgive Sin?

[Ronald David Bruno]

Nobody is actually saved until the get to the end of their lives and they go in to the presence of the Lord.

Those that get there are actually saved.

Technically, being born again, is becoming a new creature in Christ - that means you are saved. The Holy Spirit does not make mistakes. Why would He transform a person knowing that in the future the person would not remain in Him nor bear fruit?

As we see, no condemnation is only applicable to those that walk after the Spirit, not after the flesh.

True, people who do not follow Christ, don't believe, are carnal, walk after the flesh ... those people were never saved to begin with.

Actually He's speaking to God's people as we see in verse 3 He says "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you"

This does not apply to the world since they have not been saved yet.

Most of them were, but he input qualifiers, messages to the world as well: if you remain in me, follow me, bear fruit. The fact that the Father cut off branches ( in Romans 11) _ who were identified as Israelites _ that did not remain in Him, bear fruit, follow Him, believe that He was the Savior, is proof that His message goes out to the world and a warning to those who He is sustaining their lives.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Technically, being born again, is becoming a new creature in Christ - that means you are saved. The Holy Spirit does not make mistakes. Why would He transform a person knowing that in the future the person would not remain in Him nor bear fruit?

You'll have to argue with the Lord about that because His Word teaches that it's entirely possible to get saved and then fall away.

... those people were never saved to begin with.

Not true according to what Jesus teaches us in Mark 4:13-20

Each person he speaks of received the Word, but some allowed other things to enter in and the end result was they did not bare fruit.

None the less, Jesus said they all received the Word representing that all got saved initially.

Plus, there are scriptures in the NY saying some will depart from the faith which they could not do if they were never in the faith in the first place.

Saying they were never born again in the first place... is like the person that has a tree in their yard that does and tells everyone it was never really alive in the first place because after all it's dead now.

This is one of the common un-biblical fallacies of eternal security teaching.

Most of them were, but he input qualifiers, messages to the world as well: if you remain in me, follow me, bear fruit. The fact that the Father cut off branches ( in Romans 11) _ who were identified as Israelites _ that did not remain in Him, bear fruit, follow Him, believe that He was the Savior, is proof that His message goes out to the world and a warning to those who He is sustaining their lives.

None the less, it's possible to be a child of God and turn away and no longer be a child of God.

In the end times we see the falling away from the faith where more folks that you think are actually doing this.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Some shall depart from the faith does not mean they were never saved to begin with.

 

[Ritajanice]

You'll have to argue with the Lord about that because His Word teaches that it's entirely possible to get saved and then fall away.





Not true according to what Jesus teaches us in Mark 4:13-20

Each person he speaks of received the Word, but some allowed other things to enter in and the end result was they did not bare fruit.

None the less, Jesus said they all received the Word representing that all got saved initially.

Plus, there are scriptures in the NY saying some will depart from the faith which they could not do if they were never in the faith in the first place.

Saying they were never born again in the first place... is like the person that has a tree in their yard that does and tells everyone it was never really alive in the first place because after all it's dead now.

This is one of the common un-biblical fallacies of eternal security teaching.




None the less, it's possible to be a child of God and turn away and no longer be a child of God.

In the end times we see the falling away from the faith where more folks that you think are actually doing this.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Some shall depart from the faith does not mean they were never saved to begin with.

As I have already explained to you ....a Born Again has been Born Again of Imperishable seed...which you obviously aren’t understanding.

​

1 Peter 1:23 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. New Living Translation For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. English Standard Version since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; Berean Standard Bible For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God

Therefore scripture you post has no relevance to a Born Again whatsoever.....we have been Born Again of Gods seed....that liveth and abideth forever in our hearts.

We are 100% secure in our salvation......we are saved permanently from eternal damnation....

Scripture you post....will and does not speak to my heart....

You said, when we get Born Again...that is not biblical...and you have yet to explain what Born Again of imperishable seed means.

Was God’s seed planted in the soil in your garden?

Or was God’s seed planted in your heart?..where it will flourish and grow.

And remember..Mary did not need to read her Bible..to receive the seed of God into her womb where Jesus grew.I mean seriously who would think such a thing!

Gods word NEVER returns void to him..it ALWAYS accomplishes what is pleasing to him.

Now if you want to merry go round the Bible, not knowing who you are in Christ then be my guest....I have been Born Again of imperishable seed, that lives and abideth forever in my heart.....Gods Living seed.
And I know who I am in Christ..

In Christ Jesus you have become a new creation and a son of God. Second Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.


Born Again of imperishable seed.

1 John 3:9​

1 John 3:9 KJV​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[RedFan]

Can someone please discuss how 2 Peter 2:20-21 fits into this debate?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Can someone please discuss how 2 Peter 2:20-21 fits into this debate?

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

It means exactly what it says... those that get born again and made free from free from sin (not a baby Christian but someone who has grown in the Lord) and they backslide back in to living a sinful lifestyle... they will end up being more dark and more enslaved to sin than they ever were before they got born again.

Jesus spoke about this as well...

Matthew 12:45
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Each person he speaks of received the Word, but some allowed other things to enter in and the end result was they did not bare fruit.

The Parable of the Sower of Seed explains who eill be saved, those with fertile soil.
The seed that is planted in shallow soil hears the word, gets excited, has thus superficial carnal faith that doesn't last when tribulations and trials come because the roots are deep, their belief wasn't nourished with the word.
I think many folks go to church that haven't really believed, they go, put on a smile face and then the next day take of their mask and life continues on as it always has. They weren't transformed. They didn't really have a relationship with God.
Reminds me of the Godfather ; the Mob members attended Church, even went to confession (confess what I wonder?), wearing crosses, saying a prayer at the table and then going out and committing crimes, dealing drugs, committing adultery and then wacking someone because they looked at their wives in the wrong way. Oh, they believe that there is a God, up there, but that they are the boss down here. They thought their infant baptism covered them. Oops.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This is a weak shallow faith as I mentioned. There will be a great falling away from a faith that was not nourished and cared for. These people were not born again. We must weigh the scripture against scripture. Scriptures are in harmony. They do not contradict each other, only people misunderstand them.

Harmonize the above scripture with this:

Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you are "in Christ", you cannot fall away, nothing can cause that to happen!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

It means exactly what it says... those that get born again and made free from free from sin (not a baby Christian but someone who has grown in the Lord) and they backslide back in to living a sinful lifestyle... they will end up being more dark and more enslaved to sin than they ever were before they got born again.

Jesus spoke about this as well...

Matthew 12:45
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Number truth.

All God's truths found in his word will be held against those whom HEAR the words of God and refused to obey the words of God !
John 17:17
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: THY WORD IS TRUTH.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Ignorance of the word of God, the seed the sower planted, will not be excusable.
Acts 17:30/31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but NOW commandeth ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he ordained; (Hebrews 5:3-5) whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

To turn aside or return to a life of sin & rebellion against God will be WORSE THAN NEVER HAVING KNOWN HIM for that one.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

**""To deny apostasy, aka " falling away' is to deny the truths of the word of God.*"*"

The Spirit reveals to those whom seek God of his promises, rewards, chastisements, warnings and blessings. We cannot pick the good & reject the bad by our own understanding bc it doesn't suit our theology !

A dark day of reckoning is coming against ALL FALSE DOCTRINES & HERESITICAL BELIEFS!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If you are "in Christ", you cannot fall away, nothing can cause that to happen!

So you're all in with those that believe Christians can live in sin and still be saved I see.

These people were not born again.

Sadly for you, that's not what 1 Timothy 4:1 says.

It's why some folks don't get the whole Truth from the Lord is because they refuse to accept all that God says.

Feel free to ignore what the Lord says at your own peril.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Prov. 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
( If we are NOT following him, through his WORD, COMMITTED, then he WILL NOT direct our path)

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Luke 17:21......the kingdom of God is within you.

ONLY BEING IN CHRIST, attached to the vine can we receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 7:21 - NOT EVERY ONE that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:39-40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore IF any man be IN CHRIST, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Never will our self efforts make us righteous before God, no matter how loudly we extol them !
Titus 3:5-7-
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.


Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: REPENT ye, and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.

 

[Johann]

So you're all in with those that believe Christians can live in sin and still be saved I see.

But what makes the believer in Christ Jesus free from the law of sin and death, which is in his members? The second verse answers this question. “For the law of the Spirit, of life in Christ Jesus, hath set me free from the law of sin and death.” The law of sin and death has lost its power by another law; the law of the Spirit is that of life in Christ Jesus. It means that the Spirit’s law is that we are, as believers, for everything, for all things, dependent on Christ. In Him are all our springs and resources. He is our life and His life is in us. We are one with Him. To appropriate this in faith, identifying ourselves with Christ as God has done it, giving Him the preeminence, glorifying Him--this gives power and deliverance. And the Spirit, the Spirit of holiness and power is also given to the believer; He dwells in Him. If the believer then walks according to the law of the Spirit, that is in Christ, we are made free from the law of sin and death. The righteousness of the law can in this way be fulfilled in us. But there is a condition. We must walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. What is the walk according to the Spirit? It is not self-occupation, nor even occupation with the Holy Spirit. Walking according to the Spirit is occupation with the Lord Jesus Christ. If the believer ever looks to Christ, depends on Him, draws all he needs from Him, if Christ is His all--then the believer walks according to the Spirit. Then there is power over the old nature and the righteousness, demanded by the law is being fulfilled. And we must not overlook the fact that God’s love is mentioned in this blessed unfolding of our deliverance in Christ. The law was weak, it could not get its righteous requirements fulfilled, on account of the flesh, the fallen nature of man. Then God came in. “God sending His own Son in likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin condemned sin in the flesh.” It points us once more to the cross.

“He has sent His own Son in ‘the likeness of sinful flesh’ as the cross manifests Him, but there for sin, our sin, putting it completely away, while, at the same time condemning it, utterly. Sin in the flesh is condemned,--I myself, with all that is in me, my own thoughts, my will, my wisdom, my ways,--in the cross, I see the end of it all, but the end of it in the love which has come in fully for me and which now fulfills in me the righteous requirement of the law when it is no longer simply requirement, but the Spirit of God has filled my heart with the joy of Christ. ‘The joy of the Lord is your strength.’ I am free to give myself up to drink in this love which God has shown me and which rests upon me in Christ, in all the fulness of God’s delight in Him. I have no cause now to ask: Must not God condemn the evil in me? He has condemned it, and I read the condemnation there where I find also Himself for me in a grace which knows no conditions, and which holds me fast, therefore, forever” (Numerical Bible.)

Notice that the opening verses of the eighth chapter refer us back to the fifth, sixth and seventh chapters. The believer is in Christ the last Adam and therefore beyond condemnation. (Chapter 5:12-21). Sin is not to have dominion over us (Chapter 6). Sin in the flesh has been condemned and the righteousness of the law is fulfilled by a walk according to the Spirit (Chapter 7). (To much included for 7.)

Rom 8:5-8

Next we find a contrast between the flesh and the Spirit. While the believer is no longer in the eyes of God in the flesh, the flesh, however, is still in him as long as he has this mortal body. There is therefore a conflict between the Spirit and the flesh. Humanity falls into two classes, those who are according to the flesh, the unsaved; and those who are according to the Spirit, believers in Christ. A believer is called to walk according to the Spirit, in the sphere into which he is brought through grace. He may walk according to the flesh, but that does not put him back into his former state, when unsaved, he was in the flesh. The mind of the flesh, the condition in which man is by nature, is described in a fourfold way:

1. It is death.

2. It is enmity against God.

3. The flesh is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

4. They that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Such is the state of all who are not born again. But the believer is no longer in the flesh, but is in Christ and the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, which the believer possesses. The believer who walks carnally cannot please God, just as a man who is not born of the Spirit, cannot please God. The carnal walk of the believer results in a broken fellowship with God. But Christ is our Advocate with the Father and He restores while the indwelling Spirit leads to confession and self-judgment. The standing of a believer before God is always in Christ; God beholds us in Him and no longer in the flesh, the sphere of sin and death. The practical state of a believer is often varying. But our failures and shortcomings can never affect our standing before God in Christ. This is an important truth. Many true believers are in a miserable bondage, in doubts and fears, lacking assurance and the joy of salvation, because they do not know the fixed and unalterable standing a believer hath in Christ.

Rom 8:9-11

The believer’s standing is, therefore, emphasized. “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so that the Spirit of God dwell in you; but if any one have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.” The believer is no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit because the Spirit of God dwells in him. For the first time we have the blessed truth declared that the Spirit of God is in the believer. AS the Spirit of God, He marks the new standing before God; as the Spirit of Christ, He is evidencing the facet that the believer belongs to Christ, and that He produces in him Christ-likeness. Sometimes true believers ask the question, “How can I get the Holy Spirit?” Certain teachers say that a believer, after being saved, should seek the gift and sealing of the Spirit. To teach this is altogether unscriptural. The gift and sealing of the Spirit are at once bestowed upon all who are in Christ, and every true believer is in Christ. “In whom ye also trusted, having heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also believing, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Eph 1:13). “He that hath sealed us with the Holy Spirit is God” (2Co 1:22). The sealing with the Spirit does not put a believer in Christ; but because we have trusted on Him we are sealed. This verse here in Romans is conclusive. The Spirit given to us marks off the believer as belonging to Christ. Act 19:2 is frequently quoted to back up the erroneous teaching that the Spirit must be received in a definite experience after conversion. One little word is responsible for the error. The word “since” is mistranslated; it is “when.” “Have ye received the Spirit when ye believed?”

Occupation with the Spirit of God and His indwelling is nowhere demanded of the believer. He has come not to testify of Himself, but to glorify Christ. Therefore He testifies of the blessed fact that “Christ is in you.” The Spirit is life on account of righteousness. It means that the spirit of the believer is energized by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the power of life in the believer. What about the body of the believer? It is dead on account of sin. The body has not yet the effects of redemption in it; it is not yet quickened. But the mortal body of the believer has the promise of redemption. The Holy Spirit dwells in that body and He is the earnest of our inheritance. “If the Spirit of Him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He who raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies on account of His Spirit who dwelleth in you.” This is the redemption for which we wait (see Rom 8:23). It will come when the Lord comes for His Saints. The believer is nowhere taught to look for the death of the mortal body he has, but for the Coming of the Lord, who “shall change our body of humiliation that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself” (Php 3:21). “Behold, I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye” (1Co 15:51-52; 1Th 4:17). Here we have a blessed answer to the question asked in the previous chapter. “Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” The answer is “the Lord Jesus Christ.” And while the believer waits for that promised, coming deliverance, deliverance from the presence of sin, He walks in the Spirit, freed from the power of sin.

Rom 8:12-17

 

[Johann]

Sadly for you, that's not what 1 Timothy 4:1 says.

NASB "by means of the hypocrisy of liars"
NKJV "speaking lies in hypocrisy"
NRSV "through the hypocrisy of liars"
TEV "spread by deceitful liars"
NJB "seduced by the hypocrisy of liars"

These claim to be "teachers of the Law" (cf. 1 Tim. 1:7). There was obviously an element of Judaism involved. They are vividly described in 1 Tim. 1:3-7; 4:2-3,7 and 6:3-10,20-21.
1. they teach strange doctrines (1 Tim. 1:3; 6:3)
2. they pay attention to myths and genealogies (1 Tim. 1:4)
3. they have turned aside to fruitless discussion (1 Tim. 1:6)
4. they make confident assertions about what they do not understand (1 Tim. 1:7; 6:4)
5. they are hypocritical liars (1 Tim. 4:2)
6. they have seared consciences (1 Tim. 4:2)
7. they forbid marriage (1 Tim. 4:3)
8. they advocate abstaining from foods (1 Tim. 4:3)
9. they put forth fables (1 Tim. 4:7)
10. they are conceited (1 Tim. 6:4)
11. they have a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words (1 Tim. 6:4)
12. they cause constant friction (1 Tim. 6:5)
13. they have false knowledge (1 Tim. 6:20-21)
14. they have gone astray from the faith (1 Tim. 4:1; 6:21)

NASB "deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"
NKJV "deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons"
NRSV "deceitful spirits and teachings of demons"
TEV "lying spirits. . .teachings of demons"
NJB "deceitful spirits and doctrines that come from devils"

Paul's view of these false teachers is very negative. He attributes their teaching to the work of Satan and to the demonic. In many ways Paul's view of these heretics parallels the OT view of Canaanites' fertility worship. God told the Israelites to totally destroy these people because they would corrupt the faith. These same warnings are found here (cf. 2 Thess. 2:9-10; James 3:15; 1 John 2:18-19).

NASB "seared in their conscience"
NKJV "having their own conscience seared with a branding iron"
NRSV "consciences seared with a hot iron"
TEV "consciences are dead, as if burnt with a hot iron"
NJB "consciences are branded as though with a red-hot iron"
This refers to one of two things.

1. The false teachers were beyond the place of repentance (cf. Eph. 4:19; Titus 1:15). We get the English word "cauterize" from this Greek term.

2. This phrase refers to Satan's brand showing his ownership (e.g., Rev. 13:16,17; 14:11; 16:2; 19:20; 20:4).
Because these men refused to see truth, they are now incapable of seeing truth (cf. 2 Cor. 4:4). This is the unpardonable sin of the Gospels and the sin unto death of 1 John 5.

4:3 "who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods" Here are two of the ascetic teachings of the false teachers. The first, forbidding marriage, is related to the Greek background (Gnostic) or possibly the Jewish Essene (Dead Sea Scroll Community) influence. Marriage is a gift from God (cf. Gen. 2:24) and the will of God (cf. Gen. 1:28; 9:1,7). Marriage is the norm; celibacy is a special call and gift (cf. Matt. 19:11-12; 1 Corinthians 7).
The second, abstinence from certain foods, seems to be related to the Jewish background (cf. Leviticus 11), but could refer to Gnostic prohibitions. Both concepts are dealt with theologically in Gen. 1:28-31. There has always been a tendency among religious people to depreciate the material world, to think of celibacy as a more spiritual state and to view abstinence from both food and drink and asceticism in general as a superior spiritual condition (cf. Matt. 15:11; Mark 7:17-23; Rom. 14:1-15:13; 1 Cor. 8:8; 10:23-33; Col. 2:8-23). The list of qualifications of leadership in chapter 3 is probably related to these false teachings. Notice both marriage and wine are permitted (cf. 1 Tim. 3:2,12; 5:9 and 3:3,8; 5:23).


"those who believe and know the truth" This is an unusual grammatical construction (i.e., an adjective and a participle, cf. Michael Magill, NT TransLine, p. 785). This same form appears in Titus 1:15. These believers are described as
1. believers – pronominal, dative, plural, masculine, adjective
2. ones who have known – perfect, active, plural masculine participle
The truth here (see Special Topic at 1 Tim. 2:4) is that all creation is from God and He should be thanked for it. Asceticism violates this truth.
4:4 "For everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected" For this tremendous truth on the goodness of all things see Gen. 1:31; Rom. 14:14,20; 1 Cor. 6:12; 10:26; Titus 1:15. However, we must balance this with the fact that though all things may be good and clean to those who know their origin is in God, not all things edify the church (cf. 1 Cor. 6:12 and 10:23). Therefore, we as Christians limit our freedoms for the sake of others out of respect for Christ (cf. Rom. 14:1-15:13; 1 Corinthians 8-10).
The word "rejected" is literally "to throw away." Moffatt translates it "tabooed." Be careful about cultural and/or denominational traditions (cf. Isa. 29:13; Col. 2:8-23).
4:5 God's spoken word brought about creation (cf. Gen. 1:3,6,7,14,20,24) and affirms the original goodness of all things (cf. Gen. 1:31). The believer thanks God (cf. 1 Tim. 4:4b) for His creation and provision (cf. Rom. 14:6; 1 Cor. 10:30-31).


"prayer" This term (enteuxis) is only used twice in the NT, both times in 1 Timothy (cf. 1 Tim. 2:1 and 4:5). It denotes meeting with someone for the purpose of visiting with them. It is often translated "intercession" (cf. 1 Tim. 2:1); in this context, "thanksgiving" seems more appropriate. Remember that context, not dictionaries, determines the meaning of words!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So you're all in with those that believe Christians can live in sin and still be saved I see.

We are not under the Law, we are under Grace - but that does not give us free reign to go sin it up. Our sins have been forgiven, washed clean. Our spirit therefore is pure and at any moment if death were to come suddenly, we go to be with the Lord and are presented to the Father without blemish. Is this a foreign concept to you.

This nature of sin has died, we are no longer slaves to it, so we no longer practice it. We practice Christianity. This is a Christian fundamental.
It is also a fact that though our spirit has been cleansed, are behavior in the flesh is not pure. Which is why we are continuously reminded to walk in the Spirit not in the flesh. If it wasn't possible for a Christians to walk in the flesh, why are we continously reminded to?

Galatians 5:16-18 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

We still possess the flesh, awareness of old habits and things we used to like and these temptations resurface and on occasion, we slip up. Oaul was aware of this war going on inside us - don't you? As we grow the battle lessons, we just say no to it. But we also say no to love our neighbors as ourselves. That law is broken all the time. We make a decision not to help someone when they need it, are selfish, make excuses and maybe just offer a prayer. Are we always a good Samaritan? Are we all pure, holy and loving people all the time? Don't deceive yourself. You have shown on this board that you are not!

The world can see that we sometimes fall into temptation, our old ways. Now we are no longer slaves to it, but we still must mortify the fleshy desires that continually come upon us.

Sadly for you, that's not what 1 Timothy 4:1 says.

You took my quote out of context. I said people who have shallow faith, whose soil was shallow and roots did not grow deep are not born again believers.
Born again believers have fertile soil and deep roots, who nourish themselves continously with the Word. They will not fall away when storms come.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But what makes the believer in Christ Jesus free from the law of sin and death, which is in his members?

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus HAS MADE ME FREE from the law of sin and death.

God taught me in my Bible that Romans 8:2 is TRUE for me!

Paul's view of these false teachers is very negative. He attributes their teaching to the work of Satan and to the demonic.

That's why some folks are departing from the faith!

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Johann]

So how do you read this text..

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV​

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Trick question? Peiradzo?

 

[Johann]

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus HAS MADE ME FREE from the law of sin and death.

2~~For the principal/law {nomos}
of the Spirit/spirit . . . {Who is}
the source of {everlasting} life
- in/'through the agency of' Christ Jesus {Positional Truth} -
has set you free
{eleutheroo - this is divorce from the 1st Marriage - see Chapter 7}
from the law/principal
{nomos - here meaning the trends or lusts of the OSN}
of 'the sin nature'/sin
and {(the resultant) spiritual} death
{the Mosaic Law says the wages of sin is death see Galatians
Chapter 2 - this is spiritual death - many have sinned and are still
walking around today living physically}.

{Note: RBT says Spirit here refers to God the Holy Spirit Who provides us with everlasting life at the point of salvation and Union with Christ (marriage to the 2nd Husband). RBT said in other passages we also know that unbelievers do not have human spirits and do not have everlasting life. They have 'soul life'.}

3~~For the law {Mosaic Law} is powerless {adunatos}
in that it is weak through flesh
{referring the sin nature in the human body},
the God
- having sent the Son of Himself in the likeness of the flesh of sin
{refers to co-equality of the Father and the Son. And the Deity
of the son falling/humiliating Himself to take the appearance of
humanity (sans Adam's sin)}
and " 'as a substitute for' {peri} sin"/'as a sin offering' -
judged {katakrino} sin/'the sin nature'
in the flesh.

{Note: 'A' is the Greek prefix as a negative. Dunatos means power. Adunatos means powerless.}

4~~In order that the 'legal requirement' {dikaioma}
of the law might be fulfilled {pleroo} in us,
who do not walk {peripateo}
according to the flesh
{referring to trends of the Old sin nature - applying human
viewpoint},
but according to the Spirit {pneuma}
{filled with the Spirit allowing God's divine viewpoint to be applied
to life's experiences}.

 

[Johann]

"the law of the Spirit of life. . . the law of sin and of death" This could refer to

1. the contrast between the law of sin (cf. Rom. 7:10,23,25) and the new law of God (cf. Rom. 7:6,22,25)

2. "the law of love" (cf. James 1:25; 2:8,12) versus "The Mosaic Law" (cf. Rom. 7:6-12)

3. the old age versus the new age

4. old covenant versus the new covenant (cf. Jer. 31:31-34; the NT book of Hebrews)

This contrasting style is sustained.

1. the law of the Spirit of life in Christ vs. the law of sin and death, Rom. 8:2

2. according to the flesh vs. according to the Spirit, Rom. 8:4 and 5

3. things of the flesh vs. things of the Spirit, Rom. 8:5

4. mind set on the things of the flesh vs. mind set on the things of the Spirit, Rom. 8:5

5. mind set on the flesh, vs. mind set on the Spirit, Rom. 8:6

6. in the flesh vs. in the Spirit, Rom. 8:9

7. body is dead vs. spirit is alive, Rom. 8:10

8. you must die vs. you will live, Rom. 8:13

9. not the spirit of slavery vs. the spirit of adoption, Rom. 8:15

The NASB Study Bible (p. 1645) has an interesting list on Paul's usages of the term "law" in Romans.

1. a controlling power, Rom. 8:2

2. God's law, Rom. 2:17-20; 9:31; 10:3-5

3. the Pentateuch, Rom. 3:21b

4. the whole OT, Rom. 3:19

5. a principle, Rom. 3:27



NASB, NRSV,
NJB"has set you free"
NKJV, TEV"had made me free"

Verses 2-3 are the theological message of Romans 6. There are several different pronouns which appear in the ancient Greek texts

1. "me" appears in manuscripts A, D, K & P

2. "you" appears in א, B, F & G

3. "us" appears later in an uncial manuscript, Ψ

The UBS4 compilers give "you" (singular) a "B" rating (almost certain). The UBS3 gave it a "D" rating (great difficulty).

Manuscript variants related to the pronouns "us," "you," or "me/we" are recurrent in Paul's writings.

8:3 "what the law could not do" The Mosaic Law is good and holy, but humanity is weak and sinful (cf. Rom. 7:12, 16). The verb here is really the adjective adunaton, which usually means "impossible" (cf. Matt. 19:26; Heb. 6:4,18; 10:4; 11:6), but it can mean "without strength" (cf. Acts 14:8; Rom. 15:1). The Law was incapable of providing deliverance (cf. Gal. 3:21). On the contrary, it only provided condemnation, death, and curse (cf. Galatians 3)!

"weak as it was through the flesh" This is Paul's basic argument of Romans 7. The Law of God is good and holy, but sinful, fallen, rebellious mankind cannot perform its requirements. Paul, unlike the rabbis, emphasized the consequences of Genesis 3. Most rabbis attribute the instigation of evil into the world at Genesis 6.

"God did: sending His own Son" What fallen mankind could not do under the Old Covenant, God did under the New Covenant (cf. Jer. 31:31-34; Ezek. 36:22-36) through Jesus (cf. Isa. 53; John 3:16). Instead of external requirements God provided an internal Spirit and a new heart and a new mind. This New Covenant is based on repentance and faith in Christ's finished work, not on human performance (cf. Eph. 2:8-9). However, both covenants expect a new lifestyle of godliness (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:10).

"in the likeness of sinful flesh" This same truth is stated in Phil. 2:7-8. Jesus had a truly human body (but no sin nature, cf. Phil. 2:7-8; Heb. 7:26). He is really one with us. He was tempted in all ways as we are yet without sin (cf. Heb. 4:15). He understands us. He intercedes for us (cf. Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25; 9:24).

"as an offering for sin" The italicized words are implied in NJB and in the footnote of NRSV. This same concept is stated in 2 Cor. 5:21 and 1 Pet. 2:24. Jesus came to die (cf. Isa. 53:4-6,10-12; Mark 10:45). Jesus' innocent (blameless) life became a sin offering (cf. John 1:29) for all humanity (cf. Heb. 10:6,8; 13:11).

"He condemned sin in the flesh" Jesus' physical death accentuated and dealt with the problem of mankind's sin nature, not just individual acts of sin (as did the Mosaic Law). It was His life, death, resurrection, and ascension that accomplished God's eternal redemptive purpose (cf. Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:28; 13:29). He also showed us what humans can be and should be (cf. John 13:15; 1 Pet. 2:21).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

"the law of the Spirit of life. . . the law of sin and of death" This could refer to

It refers to me being set free from sin as though... I no longer am a slave to sin!... and in NOT doing sin!

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's kinda mean, isn't it, BOL?

Not at all.
It’s just an observation- NOT a critique.

That's not much nicer, but what's so hard about:

"Christ didn't leave His divine authority to forgive sins to a few select, mortal men?"

And I'm not anti-Catholic, in the general sense—I'm a Pro-testant—"in favor of testing."

Call me what you like; I am what I believe..

That’s as incorrect as saying that Christ didn’t instruct a few mortal men to go out to teach and Baptize the world (Matt. 28:19-20).

 

[BarneyFife]

That’s as incorrect as saying that Christ didn’t instruct a few mortal men to go out to teach and Baptize the world (Matt. 28:19-20).

Uh, no.

It really isn't.

At all, actually

.