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Featured Can Satan create?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by aspen, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Okay....we need to define evil.....
    Definition of evil
    eviler or eviller; evilest or evillest
    1 a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked
    • an evil impulse
    b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct
    • a person of evil reputation
    2 a archaic : inferior
    b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive
    • an evil odor
    c : disagreeable
    • woke late and in an evil temper
    3 a : causing harm : pernicious
    • the evil institution of slavery
    b : marked by misfortune : unlucky

    If God created all things including the serpent in the Garden of Eden then He created something that was of an evil nature....or rebellious nature....
    And since Satan and a third of heaven (who God created) was cast down because of their rebellion then that evil was present before Adam and Eve were created....so evil was present on earth at the time Eve disobeyed God and listened to the temptation of the serpent.
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Notice that all your examples of evil are a perversion of God’s good creation?
     
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  3. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    So....if God created Satan...with his beauty, his intellect and his emotions then would it be conceivable that God, being a just God, created that in him? Or did it just birth and create itself in the heart of Satan to be puffed up with pride and jealousy against His creator?
    It really is a very deep subject...…
    Satan could not create his own emotions...God created those in him.

    IMHO....:)
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Since only God is the Creator of all things, and Satan is a creature, he can create out of that which is already created, and do counterfeit miracles, signs, and "lying wonders". See the confrontation of Moses by Jannes and Jambres: Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. (2 Tim 3:8; Exod 7:8-13)

    His focus however, is on creating deception, confusion, and wickedness, which involves working on the hearts and minds of those susceptible to deception. Therefore Christian are warned over and over again about "the wiles of the devil" (generally presented through others).
     
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect. Satan (while Lucifer) was given the ability to make free choices -- submit to God or rebel against him. Just as Adam and Eve were given this ability. God did not create evil emotions or desires within anyone.
     
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  6. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Yes......I guess maybe I am not getting what you are arguing? You don't think God created evil? I suppose you could argue that if God had not given us "free will" then there would never be any sin because we would all be programmed to think how He wants us to think.
     
  7. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Well, is given the ability to make free choices a risk that God took just for the heck of it? Why did God give Lucifer free will? why did He give us free will?
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You would have to ask God. In hindsight, programmed robots would have been better. :cool:
     
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  9. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Well, it comes down to a Sovereign and Just God who loves all His creation and desires their love in return....His is not a dictator and will not force anyone (including angels) to love and worship Him if they choose not to.....so hence He created free will which allowed Lucifer to develop pride.
    Pride and Disobedience was the first sin.
     
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  10. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Satan is refered to as the father of lies, so he must be the origionator of all lies. Evil is a corruption of what God established or in simple terms a lie.
     
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  11. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    Causing and creating are two different actions. Creating starts with nothing and producing something. Causing takes elements already in existence and uses them in some way to produce a desired effect.

    Satan uses things already created to produce killings, thefts and destruction.

    If thoughts are a creation then he does create. He cannot take a person physically and make them do something but by means of planting one evil thought or suggestion after another he causes murders, thefts and destruction for as Jesus told us the devil came to kill, steal and destroy. In these three things he is a waster and of the waster it is written.

    Isaiah 54:16 KJVS
    Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

    One of the best insights to Satan I've heard came from a five year old child, my daughter Joanna, now with the Lord. She was saved by probably three knowing Jesus personally. By five she could easily read the KJV Bible only slowing down at some word such as Nebuchadnezzar.

    One day she piped up and declared "I know why God made the devil"! We were amazed and asked why.

    "because God wanted to see who we would follow" her profound answer.

    Creating = making something from nothing.
    Killing, stealing and destroying takes created things and causes their demise.

    Creating generally infers good. Satan can do no good only evil. Is there even one reading here that has not had things killed, stolen or destroyed by that evil creature? No not one.

    Let us strive that we not be used in any of his schemes that kills, steaks or destroys. One sinner destroys much good. There are none here that have not been used in his schemes including me. May God help me not to be a element in his destructions. Amen
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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  12. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    He is the father of lies but he is still God's creation....
    and scripture refers to it:
    Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

    But this also serves His purpose....because in this scripture God was justifying His Sovereignty to punish disobedience.....

    4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

    5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

    6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

    9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

    10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?


    So in verse 7 it says He makes peace and creates evil.....and IMHO He did this to establish the reward/punishment system.....Adam and Eve were warned by God to not eat of the Tree of Life or they will surely die.....

    I mean who created this reward/punishment system? Our Father.....I am not declaring that He created caused the angels to become evil in their heart.....their pride and disobedience did that.....as with us....there could come a time when He will no longer strive with an individual and turn them over to a reprobate mind and harden their hearts.....

    But as Job said: “The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD” (Job 1:21). After being covered with boils he says, “Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” (Job 2:10).

    Blessed Be the Name of the Lord! Amen
     
  13. Truth

    Truth Well-Known Member

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    Satan Can't create, he can influence through temptation, then watch to see if his fruit come's forth, If Satan does any Miracles, it will only be allowed by God, when it is time! as far as reading the mind of people, No! just watches for error in people.
    For the Word of God [ JESUS ] is sharper than a two edge sword ------ a discerner of the thought's and intent of one's heart, in the NT our Savior was at time's questioning the Pharisees, why do you dispute among yourself's, and even the disciples also, He knew what they were thinking! Praise God for our High Priest that know's us better than we do!
     
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  14. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Children have such wonderful innocence...…
    So as far as God creating evil because He wanted to....no not at all.....He created free will where evil is born....IMHO....as a man thinketh so is he….Lucifer thought He should rule instead of God and convinced a third of the angels to join him....Michael the Archangel and his army had to battle against Satan and cast them out of heaven.
    These why questions will always create a lot of viewpoints as to "why" but we shall know when we finally are joined with Him in eternity. God Bless!
     
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  15. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Yes we can be predictable. Is it such a far stretch to consider since we are of one body under the submission of one head which is Christ ...that Satan would also be head of a body?

    Daniel 2:31-35
    [31] Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. [32] This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, [33] His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. [34] Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. [35] Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

    What did Paul’s thorn in the flesh do? (A messenger of satan) ...so that Paul would not be exalted above measure. It served a purpose. And also when Paul said to put the man sleeping with his fathers wife outside of the body, to turn him over to satan that the flesh might be destroyed and the spirit saved on the day of judgement. The hedge removed from Job’s life??? What about when I am weak (in flesh) I am strong (in the spirit)? Scripture says we enter into the kingdom through much suffering.

    Job 36:15
    [15] He delivereth the poor in his affliction, and openeth their ears in oppression.

    Isaiah 54:16-17
    [16] Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. [17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

    “No weapon formed against you will prosper.” ...who formed the weapon? My enemies are a part of the breaking of the bondage of flesh around my neck. They, my enemies, have a part in my entering in through the narrow gate. I get to know God because of them. Every son He (the Father) receives He scourges. Hebrews 12:6-7 [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    Why? To bring forth an instrument for his work by the destruction of the flesh(by fire). “This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.”

    Ezekiel 10:2-4
    [2] And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. [3] Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. [4] Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory.
     
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  16. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    God good

    Devil bad

    Nuff said.
     
  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Adam and Eve were able to choose between good choices. We, without Christ, are only able to choose between evil, broken choices.
     
  18. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You continue to believe that God is responsible for the evil within Satan and evildoers. That is false.

    God created free moral agents who could either obey Him or disobey Him. But there would be consequences either way. As to why He made this decision, He had a higher purpose in view, but that is a separate topic.
     
  20. Mayflower

    Mayflower Well-Known Member

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    Wow, never thought of this...food for thought. But I believe God created everything and is Omniscient as well. Now how it was created...Id say some materials of His (*cough, *cough, satan, fallen angels, man), were used to create the evil. But if evil didn't exist, we could not fully understand a lot of the good attributes of God that are the opposite of evil and how powerful those attributes actually mean to everyone and everything.
     
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