Can we ever stop sinning or be perfect?

[MatthewG]

I suppose it all (again) comes down to what one thinks sin is, we can be hard on ourselves.
To me, lacking compassion for the most un-lovable person is a sin. To me, allowing someone to walk away without a need met if it is in your power to meet that need...especially unto the brethren, is a sin!
If a curse word escapes out of your mouth or lashing out in anger, no matter the reason, is a sin. Thoughts, imaginations also can be sin if fed on. You see, I don't separate sins, transgressions, iniquities, trespasses, and such. I know some on here do yet...if it is sin to you, it is sin.

Yes Nancy! If people would just realize and relax in Jesus and allow Him by the Spirit of Christ within that person to move, they will realize it is not them in the flesh doing it, it is them by the power that from Gods himself which is coming in and through them, you could also say the Holy Spirit.

I’m saddened when people are relying on themselves to do it. It is not us personally that can manifest agape love. It comes from God.

If people just realized this they would relax and as that song goes “let Jesus take the wheel” which is not a favorite song of mine as I don’t care much for Christian music as it is unless it is scripture actually being sung.

It is the Spirit that helps overcome the deeds of the body. However it is one of the most untaught things in church especially if the preacher or teacher isn’t feeding the flock so they can know the truth about these things.

Most of the time it is sin, hell, lake of fire, Satan … which I believe Jesus Christ has taken care of sin, death, hell, Satan and His angels and desires for us to come into a full relationship with His Father and him…

I could probably talk about this over and over and over again without getting tired of it because to me what is stated above is true… you have to have faith that is true and Jesus has overcome all of these things.

And it is all by the spirit in which one has a real active relationship with God from the heart that makes the difference… it is not a persons knowledge of scripture (not to say it is not useful but it can be used as manipulation on people)… it is the knowledge (by faith) that God is literally (by his Holy Spirit) with them, and the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Christ is what a believer allows to come through them “IF” they desire to participate.

So I don’t mean to go a tangent but it is so important and it goes under the radar most the time if they aren’t being taught properly.

 

[MatthewG]

There are two types of sins.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

A Christian is freed from the sins in the Ten Commandments. We cannot steal, we cannot murder or commit adultery. If those drives are still in us, then Jesus is not inside of us.

The other type of sins have to do with immature fruit of the Spirit. 1 John 5:16-17 shows the two types. Sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death. Now look at 2 Peter 1:5-9. This is how to grow in the fruit of the Spirit, and Peter is harsh with those who don't.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

See how closely these steps toward perfection match the fruit of the Spirit: Galatians 5:22-23 "
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Immaturity in the fruit of the Spirit is the lesser type of sin that some call venial sins. The sins unto death are mortal sins, and what Jesus died to take away from us. We cannot commit these sins of lawlessness of murder, stealing, adultery, etc. from the Old Law, and why we are not under that law. There is no more need for them in a Spirit-filled Christian's life. We walk by the Spirit. But it is still in place for sinners.

Romans 6:6-7 shows us what is accomplished when we repent and are filled with the Holy Spirit.

6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

We are crucified with Christ and die inside - our spirit and soul referred to as our carnal nature or old man, or what Paul calls our "flesh" (not our body). Then we are resurrected with Christ to live by the divine Spirit, and our new nature partakes of the divine nature of God.

2 Peter 1:2-4.
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

At the end of all these passages in 2 Peter 1 we see that a mature Christian, who is 1: freed from mortal sin, and 2. matured in all the fruit of the Spirit is perfect and can never stumble.

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Good post. People can become (perfect) mature in their (emphasizes here because not everyone has become mature some people can be still children and one can’t expect a child to be mature right away it takes time) faith good use of scripture here.

 

[quietthinker]

I want to answer this question with only Scripture.


1 Peter 4:1-3

Therefore, since Christ suffered [a]for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.


1 John 3:6

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


1 Corinthians 15:34

34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.


Can we be perfect?


Matthew 5:48

48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


Genesis 6:9

9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, [a]perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.


Hebrews 6:1

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to [a]perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,


John 17:23

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


Colossians 1:28

28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.


Colossians 3:14

14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.


James 1:4

But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be [a]perfect and complete, lacking nothing.


1 John 2:5

5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.


Revelation 3:2

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works

What I can say is, if one's hope is contingent upon stopping sinning.....good luck with that!

I have a neighbour who is past his eighties. He is devout and has been for many years yet has no assurance of salvation. I asked him, based on his performance ie, the experience he has had through the years, when he expects this to change? He was at a loss to know what to say.
I directed him to Romans 5 in the hope that he might take his eyes off himself and towards the one who forgives.

 

[Ancient]

As I have read through this post, many scriptures are thrown around. In my opinion one needs to start by defining what sin is. Do a word study on the word sin. Start with Greek and then if you can go back to the Hebrew. Sin must be understood from Hebrew as when it was first written this was the language and mindset used. One must get their understanding from the Hebrew mindset and meaning of sin. Mostly New Testament scriptures being used throughout the thread hardly any Old Testament verses used unfortunately. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed, the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed.
If you use the Old Testament as a dictionary for the New Testament you will cut out a lot of redefined words and redefined meanings of words which has happened over the course of time even more so in modern times. We need to go back as much as possible to try and understand these things from their original meanings and the intent of the author's of the Bible who were all Hebrews living within a Hebrew culture and not from modern day perspectives that have largely been influenced by man that get their doctrines outside of the original language and culture our Bibles are "translated" from.
I am more than happy to have further discussion this privately as I can show you how to do this. Trust me your reading of the Bible will never be the same again.

Shalom

 

[Brakelite]

bickering and fighting it was it seems like most people tend to with scripture, people don’t realize it but it can be considered sin.

If you “fighting” “bickering” it is not being loving to your neighbor in all reality.

You see some points post share as though you can be sinless, you see some points that add which you still are going to sin.

It’s called using daggers to cut each other throats and most people really go unaware of it being done at all. The word of God is like a sword, and it can used as daggers to cut people… and all the people really do have a genuine heart for God hear as far I know, I can’t judge but you have a collaborative moving of different people and their subjective beliefs.

How can you cut all the B/S out?

Ask yourself this question will I fail in someway or at some point my life ever again? If you answer Yes, just know that because of Jesus Christ his blood covers your sins. No this doesn’t give anyone the license to sin, but it does make us aware that we will fail even if a person doesn’t want to. People need to accept this fact in life and stop wasting time over quibbles of

“can we stop sinning?” In certain aspects your life can change… it’s by the spirit, but that flesh of yours isn’t going to make you right before God…

Focus on doing things at are right and do things for the glory of the Lord and for his sake, but don’t think just because you try to perfect your flesh God is gonna love you more than he already does.

People just have to accept it, and move forward. Yes your gonna f**k up. It’s okay. God already knew that and that is why He sent His Son so that IN Him you can have newness of life by the spirit guiding you in your life and dying to your flesh.

Does that mean you can’t go see a rated R movie? Cause you’re gonna displease God? If you see it that way then rated R movie isn’t for you that is something you have to say to any of your friends that you can’t see it because you believe God would be ashamed of you for watching it to others.

Or does that mean you can’t listen to hard rock? Or rock in roll? Because God is gonna stop loving you?

There porn problems but does God stop loving his people because they have problems?

No! He doesn’t at all… he loves them and desires for them to be renewed in their mind so they can have a long life by and through the spirit, to have communication and have love for God and…. And….

Their fellow man no matter where they are in their life… or no matter how much knowledge they have or how much money they have or what they do or what they don’t do.

Jesus came and gave his life for you and the rest of the world, sure we are seen as his children…

But we were still loved by God already… before even knowing him…


people always battle and fight against sin and try to fight the social ills of the world…

God took care of those things through His Son, for all of eternity by that one single death on the cross and rose Him up again…

People for get this we should be resting in Him, and not making demands on people for what they should or shouldn’t do…

Don’t you believe God is powerful enough to take care of people by his very own spirit he sends?

Sorry got off a tangent but hope this does help it is ridiculous what people try to do others through religious manipulation b/s tactics


to make them fret as though they (that believe on His Son) or (don’t yet believe) aren’t enough for God it is sicking and I hate it.

Jesus is the one who is your righteousness not you… not your flesh. It’s all Him! (those who mature through time do put to death the misdeeds of the body, and do put more empathizes on the Spirit, becoming perfect (or mature in their faith) but it because of him whom deserves praise! (Even though we may still fall short from time to time).

The whole idea of living without sinning isn't that unsavory as ideas go right? I mean, either we have the Spirit of Christ dwelling within, or we don't. How much would you permit Him entry? Can God tolerate sin in his presence? If you allow Him entry into one aspect of your life, and that area becomes sanctified and holy, why not grant Him access to all of you, and all of you become sanctified and holy,? Is there a problem with that?

 

[Brakelite]

Yes Nancy! If people would just realize and relax in Jesus and allow Him by the Spirit of Christ within that person to move, they will realize it is not them in the flesh doing it, it is them by the power that from Gods himself which is coming in and through them, you could also say the Holy Spirit.

I’m saddened when people are relying on themselves to do it. It is not us personally that can manifest agape love. It comes from God.

If people just realized this they would relax and as that song goes “let Jesus take the wheel” which is not a favorite song of mine as I don’t care much for Christian music as it is unless it is scripture actually being sung.

It is the Spirit that helps overcome the deeds of the body. However it is one of the most untaught things in church especially if the preacher or teacher isn’t feeding the flock so they can know the truth about these things.

Most of the time it is sin, hell, lake of fire, Satan … which I believe Jesus Christ has taken care of sin, death, hell, Satan and His angels and desires for us to come into a full relationship with His Father and him…

I could probably talk about this over and over and over again without getting tired of it because to me what is stated above is true… you have to have faith that is true and Jesus has overcome all of these things.

And it is all by the spirit in which one has a real active relationship with God from the heart that makes the difference… it is not a persons knowledge of scripture (not to say it is not useful but it can be used as manipulation on people)… it is the knowledge (by faith) that God is literally (by his Holy Spirit) with them, and the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Christ is what a believer allows to come through them “IF” they desire to participate.

So I don’t mean to go a tangent but it is so important and it goes under the radar most the time if they aren’t being taught properly.

I agree with the above. So in the context of ceasing from sin, what is the spirit of God abiding within not capable of accomplishing,?

 

[Enoch111]

One must get their understanding from the Hebrew mindset and meaning of sin.

It is not really that complicated. The Bible says that (a) sin is the transgression of the Law and (b)whatsoever is not of faith is sin. But this unhealthy focus on sin instead of righteousness is a sin in itself.

 

[Lambano]

Paul was not speaking about being alive in Christ in that sentence. He was speaking about being alive before he heard the commandments of the law of Moses and became a Pharisee.

Romans 7:9

9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Just an exegetical note: The theologians have argued for centuries over who the "I" is in Romans 7. The followers of Jacob Arminius thought it was Paul before his conversion; those of John Calvin that it was Paul after conversion. Eisenbaum's variant of the latter that I think is correct is that Paul is speaking for the Gentile-Christians in Rome to the Jewish-Christian house-churches of Rome and describing what happens when Gentiles-Christians accept Torah practice as mandatory. Given the setup in Romans 7:1-6 and Paul's own testimony that was never "apart from the Torah" (Philippians 3:4-6) until he died to Torah (Romans 7:6; see also Galatians 2:19-20), I think this view is correct.

But basic principle is that we still have our "flesh" (Romans 7:14), which has it's ἐπιθυμία ("epithumia", lusts, cravings, desires; see Romans 7:7). So, I stand by my analysis that unless God acts through the Spirit, stumbling is statistically inevitable. Why God does not always choose to give every believer immediate and total dominion over their lusts and cravings, I can only speculate.

 

[Brakelite]

Just an exegetical note: The theologians have argued for centuries over who the "I" is in Romans 7. The followers of Jacob Arminius thought it was Paul before his conversion; those of John Calvin that it was Paul after conversion. Eisenbaum's variant of the latter that I think is correct is that Paul is speaking for the Gentile-Christians in Rome to the Jewish-Christian house-churches of Rome and describing what happens when Gentiles-Christians accept Torah practice as mandatory. Given the setup in Romans 7:1-6 and Paul's own testimony that was never "apart from the Torah" (Philippians 3:4-6) until he died to Torah (Romans 7:6; see also Galatians 2:19-20), I think this view is correct.

But basic principle is that we still have our "flesh" (Romans 7:14), which has it's ἐπιθυμία ("epithumia", lusts, cravings, desires; see Romans 7:7). So, I stand by my analysis that unless God acts through the Spirit, stumbling is statistically inevitable. Why God does not always choose to give every believer immediate and total dominion over their lusts and cravings, I can only speculate.

Christ will rule and reign over that which we give Him. God does not impose Himself into areas of our lives that are not surrendered. Do we give Him our all? Do we offer ourselves completely? Or are there cherished habits, sins, fetishes if you like we desire to retain, thinking that their loss would not be to our advantage?

 

[Lambano]

Christ will rule and reign over that which we give Him. God does not impose Himself into areas of our lives that are not surrendered. Do we give Him our all? Do we offer ourselves completely? Or are there cherished habits, sins, fetishes if you like we desire to retain, thinking that their loss would not be to our advantage?

That just begs the question: Why doesn't God change us so that we willingly surrender all?

 

[Lambano]

I don't beat myself up either. Not anymore. It does no good. If I sin, I confess it and move on.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

This tells me that yes, there will still be some sin residue left in us.

There you go. If stumbles are inevitable, you pick yourself up (or let God pick you up!) and get back in the race!

 

[Brakelite]

That just begs the question: Why doesn't God change us so that we willingly surrender all?

Because any love offered to God can only be voluntary. Surrender presupposes love for the one we surrender our lives to. Unless you believe being preprogrammed to love is actually love? Can you program your laptop to love you?

 

[Lambano]

“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; …and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9)

This I want to address.

In the lead-in immediately prior to this verse, John sets up our identity of WHO WE ARE:

See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. (1 John 3:1-3)

The rhetorical function of 1 John 3:3-10 is an appeal to our identity as beloved children of God for the purpose of exhorting believers to resist Sin. And make no mistake about it, I fully understand that we are told over and over to resist the power of Sin. What I object to is interpreting this statement outside its rhetorical intent as, "No Christian ever sins". When the inevitable stumbles occur, the logical corollary is, "No child of God ever sins. You just sinned. Therefore, you are not a child of God and you're going to Hell".

The consequences can be an infinite spin loop of sin -> ask Jesus to save you again -> repeat, or a willful blindness to one's own sin and a lack of compassion for those who do stumble.

Or, they give up hope of ever being saved and just slip away into the Darkness.

 

[Lambano]

Can you program your laptop to love you?

Maybe not in Windows (c'mon, this is Microsoft we're talking about), but perhaps in Linux...

 

[Lambano]

Because any love offered to God can only be voluntary. Surrender presupposes love for the one we surrender our lives to. Unless you believe being preprogrammed to love is actually love? Can you program your laptop to love you?

Think about it. As a consequence of the Fall, Man was pre-programmed to rebel against his Creator. The theologians talk about "spiritual regeneration" when we get saved. What changes?

 

[Taken]

Can we ever stop sinning or be perfect?
OP ^

The answer is YES.
However the Question requires one to define SIN, and the forgiveness thereof, OF SIN.

As well to define “God”.
As well to define “PERFECT”.
As well to define “MAN”.
As well to define “EARTH”.
As well to define “GOOD”.

God is the Creator AND Maker.
Earth, is dry land.
Man, WAS a Good, Kind of thing formed from Earth.
Man, Fell from Goodness, (and his reproducing seed, Fell from reproducing Good.)
God’s offered man-KIND an order and way, to become MADE, forgiven, and become MADE Restored, MADE Anew, MADE KEPT Anew, via the POWER of God.
...mankind
Hear Gods word? Man given Measures of Faith.
Believe Gods word? A mans “works”.
Confess Belief in Gods word? A mans “service”
Forgiveness? Given “for a mans Service”.
Perfect? Perfection of mans BODY Promised.
Perfect-ED? Man’s body crucified with Jesus’ Body. Man thereafter Lives in Jesus’ risen Body.
(Guarantee of man’s Sanctification). ARE accounted SAV-ED.

Men who BELIEVE, “but do NOT heartfully confess their BELIEF...(are not bodily crucified with Jesus’ body)...THEY WAIT, to give their own body TO PHYSICAL DEATH, in Belief...and receive their “gift of salvation THEN”.
They are warned...continue to believe, to their end, (of physical life)...and informed...
THEY SHALL BE SAV-ED...then.

Salvation is Gods Gift to Give, (according to Gods Order and Way.)
* Some men receive their Gift of Salvation, before physical death.
* Some men SHALL receive their Gift of Salvation, after physical death.
* Some men WILL never receive Gods Gift of Salvation.

Matters NOT WHEN an individual man RECEIVES Gods Gift of Salvation...Receipt of Gods Gift of Salvation Given “A” man, IS Permanent, Never Revoked.
The Giving and Receiving, of Salvation; is expressly BETWEEN, ONE man and The Lord God Almighty.
Gods Gift of Salvation...IS Given ONCE...
IS Received ONCE...IS Forever.

IOW, Gods Gift of Salvation has NOTHING to do with Behaviors, Beliefs, between Man and Man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Taken

You must define “define” first.

LOL!!

 

[Taken]

@Taken

You must define “define” first.

LOL!!

Glad you had a laugh, Seems you missed the context.

 

[Wynona]

people always battle and fight against sin and try to fight the social ills of the world…

God took care of those things through His Son, for all of eternity by that one single death on the cross and rose Him up again…

People for get this we should be resting in Him, and not making demands on people for what they should or shouldn’t do…

I get that you feel strongly about this. But the reason we get rid of sin isn't so we can feel better than others or reject our need for Jesus or crack a whip over ourselves.

The reason why we get rid of sin is so God can use us in the specific calling He has for us. So we can be vessels of honor.

I believe every one of us has good works prepared for us to do by God. We have a specific ministry and calling. But we have to be faithful in the little things first.

 

[dev553344]

I want to answer this question with only Scripture.


1 Peter 4:1-3

Therefore, since Christ suffered [a]for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.


1 John 3:6

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


1 Corinthians 15:34

34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.


Can we be perfect?


Matthew 5:48

48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


Genesis 6:9

9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, [a]perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.


Hebrews 6:1

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to [a]perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,


John 17:23

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


Colossians 1:28

28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.


Colossians 3:14

14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.


James 1:4

But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be [a]perfect and complete, lacking nothing.


1 John 2:5

5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.


Revelation 3:2

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works

I honestly don't think people will achieve a sinless life in this life of ours. We all have sins of omission (not providing for the less fortunate in every circumstance perfectly). This is why daily confession and repentance and hearing the word of God is so necessary. I started a thread about that and what sin is: About sin, the commandments and humility before God. If your interested check it out.