Can we know the day and hour of Jesus' return?
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The Light
Well-Known Member
The question you asked was, when was Jesus born. I don't know the context of why you asked that to begin with since I haven't read all posts in this thread yet. Therefore, I was only addressing that question. Maybe I took your question out of context, I don't know. Still have some catching up to do in some of these threads
Jesus returns the way He left at the pre-trib rapture then returns at the conclusion of the second coming just prior to the 1,000 year reign.
The Light
Well-Known Member
I asked this question.................."What year did Jesus die?"
I asked this question because most think that there are 7 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel and posted incorrect info to prove such.
If we know the date of His death we can eliminate these wrong conclusions.
Jesus returns to the 1 Thess 4:17 clouds first which is before the GT.
Hey CC, what don't they understand ? :)
The Light
Well-Known Member
You said, "No, in John 12:12-15, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, riding a donkey, hailed as the King of Israel messiah. 4 days later, Jesus was crucified."
That would mean you would have to use the year 33 AD as the death of Jesus.
We know that this date is incorrect as Jesus died in 30 AD.
Three and a half years before His death in 30 AD He was recognized as Messiah in John 1.
John 1
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
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Luk 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
This is just before Jesus's ministry started and the 15th year of Tiberius was ad28-29, which means Jesus' ministry could not have fit within just a year or so of the timeframe given here.
He also was just about 30 at the timeframe of Tiberius' 15th year. Both of these show he could not have died at age 30.
Luk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Luk 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Luk 3:5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luk 3:10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
Luk 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Luk 3:12 Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
Luk 3:13 And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
Luk 3:15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
Luk 3:18 And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.
Luk 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the evils which Herod had done,
Luk 3:20 Added yet this above all, that he shut up John in prison.
Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
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Dave Watchman
Active Member
You post the common understanding.
The Light is actually right with this one, Jesus died in AD30. Friday, April 7 30AD. It's not easy to figure out the timing of Luke 3 because of the Regnal reigns and Co-Regent reigns of the kings. They post the double dated coins where the dad king is on the one side and the son king on the other.
The Co-Regency View scholars argument has to be right for AD 26–27, counting Tiberius’s reign from when he received co-princeps authority in AD 12 or 13, because it matches with the Daniel 9 timing also verifying the Artaxerxes Decree in 457 BC, and the Passover count in 30 AD based on the new moon in the 1st month of that year. It's impossible to fudge celestial mechanics.
Some say the fall of 26AD, or the spring of 27AD, but both timelines measure to the Crucifixion in 30AD. But just because I might be right about 27AD being year #1 of Jesus' earthly Ministry, does not mean 2027 is year #1 of Daniel's 70th week in our end times. That timing has a different starting point for the end times. Now, or 2027 is just an interesting anniversary. Very interesting.
Also just because we can prove Jesus died on Friday, April 7 30AD, does not mean He will return exactly 2000 years latter in 2030. But it is interesting. I still think it's happening sooner, these may be the days we are living in that need to be shortened.
The "fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar" generally falls between AD 26 and AD 29, depending on the method used to count the start of his reign.
Traditional View: Most scholars and translations date this period to AD 28–29, based on Tiberius becoming sole emperor after Augustus's death in AD 14.
Co-Regency View: Some scholars argue for AD 26–27, counting Tiberius’s reign from when he received co-princeps authority in AD 12 or 13.
High Priests: The mention of Annas and Caiaphas as high priests anchors the timeline to the period when both were active, which overlaps with the AD 26–36 governorship of Pontius Pilate and the high priesthood of Caiaphas (AD 18–36), while Annas served earlier (AD 6–15) but retained significant influence.
Peaceful Sabbath.
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And the scriptural understanding.
Jesus was just about 30 at the timeframe of Tiberius' 15th year. Both of these show he could not have died at age 30.
Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Your view would have Jesus' ministry over just after it began.
You may be equivocating on the word "soon." Christ's return is not soon in the sense that soon means a short finite period of time as measured by our calendars. Christ may not return for another 2 years, 20 years, or even 200 years. That is why the word "soon" needs to be explained, not simply stated.
We have a fairly long period of time before the actual, physical return of Christ, if you ask me. I don't see anything in the horizon that would imply a soon return of Christ.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
Yes, it already happened. Revelation 8's four trumpet events happened in the AD 60's - all prior to Rev. 8:13's last three trumpet's "woes" - the fifth trumpet in Rev. 9 which started with the five months of early AD 66 under the Roman governor Gessius Florus who unleashed his soldiers to harass Israel's citizens, trying to provoke them into a war with Rome. That five-month provocation of Israel's populace succeeded, with the war beginning in late AD 66.
Yes, we can know that day and hour of Jesus's prophesied return, now that it has occurred. It happened on AD 70's Pentecost Day, which was the end of Daniel 12:11-13's 1,335th day. It happened at dusk, between day and night, just as Zechariah 14:7 predicted for that "one day which shall be known to the Lord" when Christ would come, and all his holy ones with Him.
The reason why no one could know that day and hour exactly is that the 1,335-day countdown to Christ's return would be jump-started by two distinct events which Daniel 12:11 predicted. Until those two prophesied events took place in the same season (which they did in the summer of AD 66), no one could know exactly the day and the hour of Christ's return. It was also going to be based on the "sign of the Son of Man in heaven" - the new moon's first appearance - which dictated what day the Passover would be celebrated, and consequently when Pentecost day would arrive in AD 70.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I've pointed this out a number times in other places, and I'll do so again. The 1260 days, I believe, refer to the time when Antichrist remains in power and *unopposed."
Rev 13.4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”
But after the 1260 days of unopposed rule the 2 Witnesses are put down and lay in the streets of Jerusalem for another 4 days. This brings us to 1264 days.
Rev 11.2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
....7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
It is then that nations who had not been willing to oppose Antichrist begin to oppose him, because we read that he instigates the kings from the East to march to Armageddon in Israel. I'm not clear what this means, but if these nations decide after 1260 days to give up on their concession to Antichrist's world rule and fight him in Israel then such a military mobilization could takes months!
Rev 16.10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness....
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
Not only do we not know the day and hour of Christ's coming, but the unbelieving world will not even recognize him, since they don't believe the Bible and have no spiritual discernment with respect to his opposition to Christ.
But as you can see, the 1260 days does not exhaust the countdown to Christ's Return. The time after the 1260 days involves the 2 Prophets lying the street, as well as the long march to Armageddon by kings far off in the East. This will take some time. And only the wise will recognize what is happening, even if they don't have the precise time frame for Christ's return.
What would you expect to see "in the horizon" to conclude Jesus return is soon?
I have a whole list of things that show the soon arrival of Jesus.....but before I present them and not skew your thought process....I have to ask first...What would you expect to see "in the horizon" to conclude Jesus return is soon?
All you need to know when Jesus will come back for the Rev 19 return is when the date when the trib begins ...then whip out your calculator and do the math.
We know the tribulation will be for 7 years...or...2,520 days using a 360 day lunar cycle year or 2,555 days using our 365 day calendar.
We also know the tribulation starts when the anti-Christ incorporates the "peace contract"....So why can't we add 2,520 days or 2,555 days from the moment the peace contract is signed? At that point it's pretty much a 50/50 guess as we don't know what number to use.
But, the bible says the peace contract will be broken after 3 1/2 years. That is 1,277 days or 1,260 days after the contract is signed.
Once the antiChrist declares himself to be God on day 1,277 or day 1,260.....all we have to do is add either 1,277 or 1,260 days to which number turned out to be correct.....and show Matt 24:36 has some problems as the day can be predicted.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
the only thing mentioned after the rapture is , THE WRATH OF ALL MIGHTY GOD and of the lamb
who lays down wrath against the beast , and all who had worshipped it .
The beast maketh war against the saints . not against the so called left behind aints .
This second coming of Jesus , this rapture . its not two ev ents that occur years apart .
iT IS a one time ev ent .
Now we are also clued heavily into
what would be occuring right before.............
inquity would have swollen up to the full , the sour bud does ripen .s
And obvisouly these in rebellion to THE ONE TRUE GOD and HIS ChRIST
would have been focused on , WORLD peace n sa fety ,
FOR WHEN THEY SHALL say PEACE N SAFETY , CRASH BANG SUDDEN destruction comes upon them all
and they WILL NOT escape .
Go on WPM , go and behold the ecumeincal all inclusive and its peace plan .
GO TOO and see what many now call GOOD and what many now call EviL and hate within those churches .
THEY embrace sins and cast out the Words of GOD as if its hate speech .
AND their peace . THEIR interreligious peace , HAS LIED TO EVERY MAN woman and child
and said ALL the relgoins serve the same GOD and that they are simply coming to HIM
in different ways . And that we must all find common ground and be as one for world peace .
THEY ACTUALLY think this anti christ peace and its lie is gonna bring them peace n safety on the world .
No sir. IT will bring them SUDDEN d estruction on the great and mighty DAY of THE LORD .
The big problem is defining "soon." Are you saying that Christ will return in the next 5 or 6 days? Or exactly a year? Or two years? Or 5 years. This is why I said that the time frame of Christ's return (The Rapture, not the Second Coming) is no where in the Bible given. But, if you're talking about the Second Coming, the it can be calculated from the signing of the covenant. But, the Church will be gone to heaven before the signing of the covenant. The Rapture comes before the signing of the covenant.
Once reason I don't think his return is within 1 year is because in the Tribulation, the USA does not seem to be a powerful nation. Answer me this: if Christ does not return in 4 months, will you say that Christ's return is now most definitely within the next 3 years, are you still going to argue that his soon return is just around the corner. What will you say if the Rapture of the Bride has not happened in 5 years, will you concede then that his return is not soon, in a short period of finite time?
I think it is entirely possible that the King of the West (the Antichrist) defeats the USA and weakens them significantly. But you also have to see Israel as weakened as well. This is why the signing of the 7 year covenant takes place. Israel will need a strong power to protect it against other nations (now that the US is out of the picture), and the Antichrist will be right there to draft this covenant, and Israel, who will be desperate at this time, will sign the covenant, unaware of who the King of the North really is.
Go ahead and list for us the "a whole list of things that show the soon arrival of Jesus...." Be sure to clearly define how long is "soon."
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Did you just completely ignore what I said? Beyond 1260 days are 4 more days in which the 2 witnesses lie in the streets of Jerusalem. And then, an international conflict breaks out, indicating Antichrist no longer has uncontested power. The 1260 days of absolute power on earth gives way to a long march from the Far East to Armageddon in Israel, a mobilization that will take months--not days!
No, I don't know the "Tribulation" will be for 7 years. For one thing, the "Great Tribulation" is the Jewish Diaspora, covering the entire NT age. It is specifically a Jewish judgment, according to Luke 21.
Secondly, Daniel 7 sets the bar for the time of Antichrist's reign, and it is 3.5 years--not 7 years. We hear 3.5 years repeated in the book of Revelation in different ways--a time, times and half a time, 42 months, and 1260 days--not 1290 days or 2520 days or 2300 days. Dan 8 and 12, when referencing 2300 days and 1290 days is separate from Dan 12.7. Dan 12.7 refers to the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign. The 1290 days in Dan 12.11 refer to the reign of terror wielded by Antiochus 4.
No, we don't know that Antichrist makes a "peace contract." That is often deduced, falsely, from Dan 9.27. Personally, I take this "confirmation" of a covenant as being Pilate's murder of Jesus. He unwittingly confirmed God's covenant with the Jews to provide a sacrifice for their sins. The "he" in the verse in context refers generally to the Roman leadership. It was the Roman leadership who was the prince of the people who desolated "the city and the sanctuary" in verse 26. So, it is the Roman leadership who puts Christ to death, confirming God's covenant with His people.
I have no problem with you stating your opinion and preferred interpretation. I might take issue with you saying, however, that "we all know" when in reality we don't. ;)
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