Since you're taking that kind of approach, trying to bring other ideas like 1 Sam.2:22 'into' the Ezek.44 Scripture, I guess I'm forced to cover it line upon line.
Ezek 44:4-24
4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face.
5 And the LORD said unto me, Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the LORD, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary.
6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
One of the very first things Israel did with disobeying God, was not destroying the nations of Canaan for their abominations which God had judged them for, and instead allowed them to creep into Israel stay. Israel eventually allowed some of them to become temple servants and even priests later. That was under the Old Covenant history, which only the sons of Levi and Aaron were supposed to have charge in God's house, including the cutting of wood for the altar.
10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.
That means those are going to be under Christ's 'rod' of iron during that time. That's in accord with what Paul taught at the end of Rom.11 about all Israel being saved. Doesn't mean they are destroyed; means those of Israel that fell away are under the rod of discipline, yet still preserved. Those duties are about the 'bull work' of duties of the house.
12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
Who all does that apply to? The "house of Israel" is put for only the ten lost tribes after Solomon's days. That means the Christian Church. So those include the pastors and elders in Christ's Church today THAT... fall away and lead their Churches astray. Just because we're in a New Covenant era doesn't mean this doesn't apply to Christ's Church today. These will include the fallen leaders in Christ's Church represent the five foolish virgins that Jesus will tell them to get away from Him in that time. That applies to the leaders of orthodox Jews also who had fallen away and misled the other part of Israel known as "the house of Judah" after Solomon's days.
But here... are Christ's elect that reign with Him:
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of My sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister unto Me, and they shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
16 They shall enter into My sanctuary, and they shall come near to My table, to minister unto Me, and they shall keep My charge.
The word "Zadok" means 'Righteous'. Christ Jesus is King of Righteousness, and His elect servants are the Righteous, the Just. These are those five wise virgins who did not fall away.
Okay... I can buy that... but let's get the full revelation of what it is actually
referring to in the 44th chapter. Let's understand what Judgment God has
applied to these rebellious leaders. Also, let's understand that God takes the
credit for blinding the rest of creation, not just the Israelites. Romans 8:20,
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not
willingly, but because of Him who subjected it,
in hope.
Let's see what Dr. Jones has to say about Ezekiel 44.
Although Ezekiel 44 uses the story of Eli and Zadok as the backdrop for the
prophecy, it is really about a New Testament priesthood in the Age of
Tabernacles that is soon to come. In the past 2,000 years there has been a
Christian priesthood under Pentecost--the leavened feast--that became as
corrupt as the priesthood of Eli. Many of them, though they steal offerings
and have sex with the women parishoners, do have a genuine belief in Jesus
Christ. In the age of the Prince of Peace, they will be allowed to minister in
the outer court (that is, the physical body). But they will not be allowed to
minister to God in His Sanctuary in heaven. In other words, they will not
receive that glorified body that can go back and forth between heaven and
earth--the kind of body that Jesus had after His resurrection.
Ezekiel describes this body in 44:17-19, putting it in Old Testament terms,
but prophesying of New Testament things:
17 And it shall be that when they enter at the gates
of the inner court, they shall be clothed with LINEN
GARMENTS; and WOOL shall not be upon them while
they are ministering in the gates of the inner court
and in the house."
Linen is made from plants; wool is an animal product. Rev. 19:8 says, "fine
linen is the righteousness [i.e., ZADOK] of the saints." Linen represents the
spiritual body, even as wool represents the fleshly, physical body.
And so, when these "priests of God and of Christ" are given glorified bodies,
like Jesus had, they will be able to go back and forth between heaven and
earth, ministering to God in Sanctuary in their "linens" and then returning
to earth dressed in "wool" to minister to the people in the outer court (end
quote).
My point is... these priest were blind, as you say, just as the creation was
subjected to futility... not by their own will, but by the will of God. Correct
me if I'm wrong, but the creation is in the same blindness the the priest
are in. God's judgment on the priest is losing their birthright and they will
be unable to minister to God. But most of the creation that is in futility will
spend eternity in hell or will be anniliated because God is a Holy God and a
just God. I ask you in humility... what is holy and just in this situation?
I see none! When God takes creation out of futility... all will become Sons of
the Living God. Just as God controls the devil by locking him up in the Age
to come and releasing him for His Will to be done, He has an appointed time
when He will release all from the bondage of corruption into the glorious
freedom of the children of God (Romans 8:21).
Can you lose your salvation?
According to Ezekiel 44... the answer is NO! The only thing you will lose is your
reward! There is a difference (1st Corinthians 3:15).
What a God! What a Plan!
Logabe
Here's one of their duties at that future time:
Ezek.44:23 And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths.
(KJV)
The ones who will 'stand in judgment' are the people they will be teaching. Teaching is one of the duties of the priest per the OT. This directly relates to what Jesus told the Church of Philadelphia in Rev.3 that He will make those of the synagogue of Satan to come worship at His elect's feet.
But outside... the gates of the holy city, is the outer darkness Jesus taught about...
Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)
Now ALL of that above Scripture timing is for Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 ONLY.
After that "thousand years", Satan is loosed one final time to tempt the nations, and lead upon that "beloved city" on earth, then Satan and his host are destroyed. Then God's Great White Throne Judgment of those, and anyone's name found in the book of life are joined with Christ's elect. There will be many that will turn to Christ Jesus and be saved then after they've understood with their blindness removed. All those who still... refuse Christ Jesus will go into the "lake of fire" and perish, consumed.
Can You Lose Your Salvation ?
- Thread starter Hollyrock
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
That Scripture from Paul in Romans 8 is about the state of bondage which God placed His creation under for this present world. Paul makes a distinction between our redemption and the creation's release from its own state of bondage...
Rom 8:18-23
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
(KJV)
Thusly, the 'blindness' Paul said God placed upon a portion of Israel is not applied to the creation. The creation is in a state of bondage, not in a state of deception, but a portion of Israel is in deception which is what the Romans 11 "spirit of slumber" causing spiritual blindness is about.
That above is supposition resulting from a misunderstanding of the resurrection of damnation which occurs with the resurrection of life at Christ's coming (as per John 5:28-29). At Christ's coming, everyone is going to be either 'changed' to the "spiritual body", or resurrected to the "spiritual body", like Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thess.4. The only type of death remaining after Christ's return will be the "second death" (Rev.20). That's not about flesh death.
Nope. That's a huge reach. The linen represents our RIGHTEOUS WORKS in Jesus Christ, not our "spiritual body". This is also why Jesus associated the idea of shame and nakedness for those of His servants He finds have fallen away from Him when He returns (Rev.16:15). The linen garments will be REAL.
Since the rest of your post continues to err about the righteous clothing of Ezek.44, I see no reason to reply to the rest of it.
Jude 6 - even some of the angels, who beheld the face of God, fell. How much more could we fall?
Gen. 3:6 - Adam and Eve, who were already living the divine life of supernatural grace, fell away from God. Is falling more possible for us?
Ezek. 3:20; 18:24; 33:12,13,18 – the Lord clearly teaches us in these verses that a righteous man can turn away from his righteousness and commit iniquity. He was righteous (there is nothing about having phony righteousness), but he fell away and chose unrighteousness. When he does, his prior good deeds shall be forgotten, and he shall die.
SOME VERSES PROTESTANTS USE TO PROVE “ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED”
2 Tim. 4:8 – veteran, you as a Protestant often use this verse to prove “once saved, always saved,” even in the face of all Paul wrote about the possibility of losing his salvation (including his). But it is only at end of Saint Paul's life that he has a moral certitude of salvation. This is after a lifetime of perseverance. As faithful believers in Christ, we indeed have a moral certitude of our salvation, but this is different from being certain of our salvation. We must persevere throughout our lives, and can choose to fall away.
Also, Catholics have more assurance of salvation that those who espouse “once saved, always saved.” This is because the only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian will not persevere to the end – but this is something a Christian cannot know during his life, and this necessarily imposes uncertainty upon him until the end. For Catholics, we know that salvation is ours to lose. For “once saved, always saved” Protestants, they don’t even know whether it is theirs to begin with.
Rom. 11:29 – “the gifts and the call of our God our irrevocable.” Some Protestants use this to prove “once saved, always saved.” But this verse has nothing to do with our response to salvation. It deals with God’s unmerited gifts and call to us. Moreover, if a person is in “the elect,” then his salvation is irrevocable. But we can never know if we are in the elect during our lives (“the elect” only deals with God’s knowledge).
Gen. 3:6 - Adam and Eve, who were already living the divine life of supernatural grace, fell away from God. Is falling more possible for us?
Ezek. 3:20; 18:24; 33:12,13,18 – the Lord clearly teaches us in these verses that a righteous man can turn away from his righteousness and commit iniquity. He was righteous (there is nothing about having phony righteousness), but he fell away and chose unrighteousness. When he does, his prior good deeds shall be forgotten, and he shall die.
SOME VERSES PROTESTANTS USE TO PROVE “ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED”
2 Tim. 4:8 – veteran, you as a Protestant often use this verse to prove “once saved, always saved,” even in the face of all Paul wrote about the possibility of losing his salvation (including his). But it is only at end of Saint Paul's life that he has a moral certitude of salvation. This is after a lifetime of perseverance. As faithful believers in Christ, we indeed have a moral certitude of our salvation, but this is different from being certain of our salvation. We must persevere throughout our lives, and can choose to fall away.
Also, Catholics have more assurance of salvation that those who espouse “once saved, always saved.” This is because the only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian will not persevere to the end – but this is something a Christian cannot know during his life, and this necessarily imposes uncertainty upon him until the end. For Catholics, we know that salvation is ours to lose. For “once saved, always saved” Protestants, they don’t even know whether it is theirs to begin with.
Rom. 11:29 – “the gifts and the call of our God our irrevocable.” Some Protestants use this to prove “once saved, always saved.” But this verse has nothing to do with our response to salvation. It deals with God’s unmerited gifts and call to us. Moreover, if a person is in “the elect,” then his salvation is irrevocable. But we can never know if we are in the elect during our lives (“the elect” only deals with God’s knowledge).
You might want to get your reading glasses changed. I don't heed the "once saved, always saved" doctrine of men. I've often spoken against it on this Forum several times. Still though, we can be certain... of our Salvation when we stay in Christ Jesus and do not turn away from Him and His commandments to become an apostate. That applies to all who have believed on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ unto Salvation, regardless of what they call themselves or what kind of Church denomination they attend.
Yet Christ's Millennium time will be a time of preaching and teaching, as written by the OT prophets like Ezekiel and Isaiah. Those who have yet to 'hear' The Gospel with understanding will hear in that time.
Like I said before, all believers on Christ Jesus are in the same boat with the danger of becoming apostate, except... Christ's elect which were chosen before the foundation of this world. There are some which can never... fall away from Christ Jesus, even all the way to the end of this world. He already owns those and will intervene in their behalf.
What Paul said there is involving God's choosing of His elect of Israel, specifically the part of Israel that He blinded with the "spirit of slumber" Paul quoted from Isaiah. He promised to remove that blindness when the fulness of the Gentiles is complete (at Christ's coming). And you're wrong about someone not being able to know they are a chosen elect, because God with many examples per Scripture showed them, 'Personally'. All those who remain in Christ Jesus, faithful to the end, are His elect, whether as a chosen one, or as having been 'called' only. Only those called can be in danger of becoming an apostate away from Christ Jesus for the end.
veteran, the Bible uses the metaphor of having the names of all the righteous written in a book (actually, the Greek word means "scroll") which is kept in heaven. In Scripture it is referred to as "the book of life," and you are correct. Everyone whose name appears in this book on the last day will be saved: If any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. . . . [Nothing unclean shall enter [the New Jerusalem], nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life" (Rv 20:15, 21:27).
People’s names are written in this book during the present life. Paul speaks of certain women who "have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life" (Phil 4:3).
The question is: Does the fact that one’s name was written in the book of life when one came to God and received initial salvation mean that one’s name will stay in the book of life until the last day, when one would receive final salvation?
The answer is: No. Scripture indicates in dozens of places that one can lose salvation, and it does so in specific connection with the book of life metaphor.
In Revelation 3:5, Jesus states: "He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels."
The implication is that if you end up giving in to sin, your name will be blotted out of the book of life and you will be denied before God and the angels, something Jesus elsewhere emphasizes (Mt 10:33, Lk 12:9).
As Jesus puts it, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Mt 10:22, 24:13; Mk 13:13).
People’s names are written in this book during the present life. Paul speaks of certain women who "have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life" (Phil 4:3).
The question is: Does the fact that one’s name was written in the book of life when one came to God and received initial salvation mean that one’s name will stay in the book of life until the last day, when one would receive final salvation?
The answer is: No. Scripture indicates in dozens of places that one can lose salvation, and it does so in specific connection with the book of life metaphor.
In Revelation 3:5, Jesus states: "He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels."
The implication is that if you end up giving in to sin, your name will be blotted out of the book of life and you will be denied before God and the angels, something Jesus elsewhere emphasizes (Mt 10:33, Lk 12:9).
As Jesus puts it, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Mt 10:22, 24:13; Mk 13:13).
I never denied the Biblical fact that a called believer on Christ Jesus can... become an apostate IF they so choose. I agree, there's ample New Testament warnings given to believers on Christ to be aware of that fact. And just who... gave those warnings? Christ and His chosen elect, His Apostles, those whom Jesus SENT into this world to serve as leaders in The Gospel.
So it sounds like YOU ARE STILL CONFUSING ME WITH THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE FALSE "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" DOCTRINE OF MEN. I do not hold to that idea, because what's the difference with it? The 'once saved, always saved' idea assumes for ALL believers on Christ, that NONE of them can ever fall away from Him and become an apostate. That's simply not a Biblical fact.
What you're apparently not understanding is that there is a difference between a 'chosen' one and a 'called' one in Christ. Don't you remember our Lord Jesus saying that many are called, but few are chosen? The John 17 Scripture explains this, as Paul also covered it in Ephesians 2 and Romans 8 about those who were predestinated BEFORE the foundation of this world.
So can we apply the idea of apostasy to Christ's CHOSEN elect ones? Nope. His 'chosen' ones cannot... be turned, ever.
Per John 17, our Lord Jesus prayed that those who come to believe through the word of His chosen sent ones, that BOTH might become one in Him, meaning both groups as His elect. His that were 'chosen' before the foundation of this world already are His elect, and cannot become apostates. It's only those who were not chosen before the foundation of this world that can... become an apostate and fall away.
WhiteKnuckle
New Member
- Mar 29, 2009
- 866
- 42
- 0
- 49
Most of the scriptures used here are not in the same context as we're trying to use them. Most of these are in reference to the realtionship of salvation between jews and gentiles. Chosen, called, elect, which ever. Such as, in the begining God chose the Hebrews as his people. This is shown through several different scriptures in the old testament, such as, "before either had done anything wrong, while they were still in the womb, One I hated, the other I loved." That shows God's soverign choice, and was a shadow tale of the Jews and the Gentiles. Most of the called or elect has nothing to do with an individuals salvation. Anyway, that's another topic altogether.
The losing vs eternal salvation delema can be solved with this.
John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.
Problem solved.
The losing vs eternal salvation delema can be solved with this.
John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.
Problem solved.
WhiteKnuckle,your problem isn't solved because John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, "no one shall snatch them out of my hands," He does not mean we can't leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him
WhiteKnuckle
New Member
- Mar 29, 2009
- 866
- 42
- 0
- 49
If it is true that you can lose your salvation, do you ever find yourself wondering about yours ? :wacko:
Of course i wonder about my salvation, but I believe as the Church and Bible teach, and that is-" I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."
I believe you misunderstand not only that verse but also the whole Bible in general, especially the Books of Daniel and Revelation, for you haven't enough knowledge of" apocalyptic literature." But that will be a later subject, if I get a chance , of course anybody can at any time start a topic on the literary form 'revelation'.
Back to Col 3; 1-4 I have copied this from ' The New American Bible' as follows - 3; 1-4. By retainig the message of the gospel that the risen, living Christ is the source of their salvation, the Colossians will be free from false religious evaluations of the things of the world [ 1-2 ] They have died to these; but one 'day when Christ.... appears, they will live with Christ in the presence of God [ 3-4 ]
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I am praying for you neophyte - I am glad you know God,
I actually agree with you on this point Foreigner!
You are right, we do not have to confess to a priest to receive God's forgiveness - thank you for pointing this out.
However (and you knew there would be a 'but' - did you anticipate a 'however'? Be honest.....)
We do need to confess our sins against our brothers and sisters in order to receive forgiveness from them. And, being a former Catholic you already know, the Early Church stopped the practice of confessing personal sins to the entire congregation and limited it to the priest, as a represent in the second century.
So, as all Catholics are taught, we are supposed to confess our sins to God before we confess our sins to our brothers and sisters in the church. The priest then provides us with an Earthly confirmation of God's forgiveness - just like Jesus commanded the disciples to do - 'go out and heal and forgive sins'. After all, if we do not forgive or ask forgiveness of our brothers and sisters, we will not be forgiven by God!
AMEN!
Then you've totally missed... what God's Word shows about a remnant among God's chosen family that He preserved for His Salvation, those like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David, the prophets, Christ's Apostles, etc.
Rom 11:1-5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 "Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life."
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(KJV)
That remnant is about those of Israel whom God Himself reserved to be in Christ, even as He reserved a remnant of Israel in Elijah's day.
Were those 'called' only? No, those were called AND... chosen. Could they reject God's calling as chosen sent ones? Nope. Apostle Paul is one of best examples of that too, for he had authority to hunt down Christians from the Jews, and was on the road to Damascus to do just that, when Christ Jesus DIRECTLY intervened and coverted him.
How many of you here have experienced something like Apostle Paul did, where Christ intervened in your personal life to bring you to Him? If you have, then you have been 'called'.
This matter of election is shown all throughout God's Word. And no man can prevent whom God has chosen.
A quick short testimony that would make your jaw drop. (emphasis added)
My mother was a Christian even before I was born. She has led many to God in her times. Now she worship idols and talks with them and proclaimed she sees the spirits manifested at her presence. She also dabbled into spells and all kinds of witchcraft from the East through monks in temples.
When I talked to her she sometimes even know the scriptures better than me. I am dead worried. Three verses popped into my minds:
Matthew 7:14
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Revelation 3:16[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth![/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Mathew 7:11[/background]
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
To the OP: this is a really upsetting topic and most of us would want to live our lives in denial than rather facing the inevitable.
My mother was a Christian even before I was born. She has led many to God in her times. Now she worship idols and talks with them and proclaimed she sees the spirits manifested at her presence. She also dabbled into spells and all kinds of witchcraft from the East through monks in temples.
When I talked to her she sometimes even know the scriptures better than me. I am dead worried. Three verses popped into my minds:
Matthew 7:14
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Revelation 3:16[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth![/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Mathew 7:11[/background]
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
To the OP: this is a really upsetting topic and most of us would want to live our lives in denial than rather facing the inevitable.
Very sorry to hear that about your mother. We should pray for her, and for your strength in Christ Jesus.
veteran, reading a little further on from your Rom.11: 1-5 we find this-
Rom. 11:20-23 – in expounding on Jesus’ teaching in John 15, Paul teaches that the Jews (the natural branches) were broken off by lack of faith (v.20), but says that the Romans stand fast through faith (v. 21). So the Romans are justified. However, Paul then says that the Romans can also be cut off if they don’t persevere in faith and kindness (v. 22-23). Hence, those justified before God can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation (be “cut off”). Paul also says that those who are cut off can be grafted back in if they do not persist in their unbelief, for God has the power to graft them in again (v.23). These verses are devastating to the “once saved, always saved” position.
Rom. 13:11 '-for salvation is nearer to us now then when we first believed.'. If we already have salvation, then how can we only be nearer to it?
veteran says
Were those 'called' only? No, those were called AND... chosen. Could they reject God's calling as chosen sent ones? Nope. Apostle Paul is one of best examples of that too, for he had authority to hunt down Christians from the Jews, and was on the road to Damascus to do just that, when Christ Jesus DIRECTLY intervened and converted him.
a person who is called and chosen CAN reject God's calling as chosen sent ones. like you said paul chose to remain and do what Christ's purpose for him was. had paul hardened his heart against God to do the will of God then paul probably never would of gotten his sight back. according the the word each and every one of us were created before the foundation of the world to accomplish something for God. we were given all the gifts and abilities needed to accomplish this task God has for us. God calls people to him all the time but very few actually chose to do what it is God is asking us to do or we are willing but somewhere we get sidetracked and get lead astray from God's original purpose for our life. this is why it is written that many are called but few are chosen.
God bless
Were those 'called' only? No, those were called AND... chosen. Could they reject God's calling as chosen sent ones? Nope. Apostle Paul is one of best examples of that too, for he had authority to hunt down Christians from the Jews, and was on the road to Damascus to do just that, when Christ Jesus DIRECTLY intervened and converted him.
a person who is called and chosen CAN reject God's calling as chosen sent ones. like you said paul chose to remain and do what Christ's purpose for him was. had paul hardened his heart against God to do the will of God then paul probably never would of gotten his sight back. according the the word each and every one of us were created before the foundation of the world to accomplish something for God. we were given all the gifts and abilities needed to accomplish this task God has for us. God calls people to him all the time but very few actually chose to do what it is God is asking us to do or we are willing but somewhere we get sidetracked and get lead astray from God's original purpose for our life. this is why it is written that many are called but few are chosen.
God bless
Similar threads
