Catholic issues

[Pearl]

Thanks Pearl.

So you do know that John 16:13 is not meant for all 2 billion Christians? If it were then that means all Christians are guided to the truth by the Spirit. If your theory were true then why are there so many 'truths' in Christianity? Is the Holy Spirit confused by giving multiple truths?

Curious Mary

Hi Mary. Nobody can know God or the truths of God without the Holy Spirit giving them revelation. And we can't pick and choose what we believe to be truth - it is or it isn't. All the bible is meant for all Christians of whatever denomination, but just because a person goes to church or believes in God and knows about the virgin birth does not necessarily make them a Christian.

 

[DuckieLady]

@Marymog

Don't be fooled, either - first off, Anabaptist did not kill anyone, they are pacifists. They were killed by both sides.

And we don't usually convince ourselves to hold onto the Anabaptist names, we go by "Christians "- I know the name and it fits to my belief, but we have to remember not to let the title become idolatry.

We believe what the Bible teaches and to "let there be no division among you."


So lets not look under that too much with a microscope, it takes away from the message of Jesus Christ and the truth of His message and what we are talking about.

 

[Cassandra]

Thanks Pearl.

So you do know that John 16:13 is not meant for all 2 billion Christians? If it were then that means all Christians are guided to the truth by the Spirit. If your theory were true then why are there so many 'truths' in Christianity? Is the Holy Spirit confused by giving multiple truths?

Curious Mary

We need to read for ourselves, and not rely on others. Some do not study. But we are counseled to.
2 Tim 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

2 Timothy 4:2-4
"Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."

As for Heb 13:17, you do not submit if what they teach or preach does not go along with the Bible.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

We have to work out our own salvation Phil 2:12-13 '12 'Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure"

 

[Philip James]

There is no reason to believe anyone besides Jesus and the apostles; those who actually walked with Jesus. Of course everything written in scripture...

Hello Fluffy,

No reason? Do you think the Spirit has been silent for 2000 years? Shall we not recognize the Spirit speaking through our brethren throughout the history of the Church? Does the Truth change?

Consider this that someone posted upthread: John 16:13

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

If that is true, and the Spirit of Truth has guided our brethren for 2000 years, then those things that were True in 100 AD, 200 AD.. 500 AD.. 1000 AD...
MUST still be True today!

Here is one example: The celebration of the Eucharist has been recognized as the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11 from the very beginning of the Church (see chapter XIV here: ~The Didache~ ). If that was True then, then it must still be True today.. and indeed you will find that Truth displayed in the liturgies of all the ancient apostolic churches..

Pax et Bonum!

 

[DuckieLady]

Hello Fluffy,

No reason? Do you think the Spirit has been silent for 2000 years? Shall we not recognize the Spirit speaking through our brethren throughout the history of the Church? Does the Truth change?

Consider this that someone posted upthread: John 16:13

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

If that is true, and the Spirit of Truth has guided our brethren for 2000 years, then those things that were True in 100 AD, 200 AD.. 500 AD.. 1000 AD...
MUST still be True today!

Here is one example: The celebration of the Eucharist has been recognized as the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11 from the very beginning of the Church (see chapter XIV here: ~The Didache~ ). If that was True then, then it must still be True today.. and indeed you will find that Truth displayed in the liturgies of all the ancient apostolic churches..

Pax et Bonum!

I think the Bible is the truth so I listen to the Bible.

That's it.

 

[Taken]

Who decides what a false teaching is?

That would be:
The Word of God and words of men Approved by the Word of God.

 

[DuckieLady]

Hello Fluffy,

No reason? Do you think the Spirit has been silent for 2000 years? Shall we not recognize the Spirit speaking through our brethren throughout the history of the Church? Does the Truth change?

Consider this that someone posted upthread: John 16:13

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

If that is true, and the Spirit of Truth has guided our brethren for 2000 years, then those things that were True in 100 AD, 200 AD.. 500 AD.. 1000 AD...
MUST still be True today!

Here is one example: The celebration of the Eucharist has been recognized as the fulfillment of Malachi 1:11 from the very beginning of the Church (see chapter XIV here: ~The Didache~ ). If that was True then, then it must still be True today.. and indeed you will find that Truth displayed in the liturgies of all the ancient apostolic churches..

Pax et Bonum!

As for this 2,000 year thing reminds me of a quote I remember hearing...

"Just because you are old, it doesn't make you right- it just means you've been wrong a lot longer."

The Bible is the truth and the timing is irrelevant

 

[Taken]

Your LOL is a bit out of place kiddo. Scripture already answered your question Taken......It's in Matthew and 1 Corinthians!! If you want help finding it, let me know. I will help you.

Nah. Not out of place to Laugh when people say something funny.

My question was to you, based on what you said.

My question to you was:
So women who marry and have a sexual relationship with her husband and multiply can not be dedicated to God?

An expectation was an answer from you in your words.
If you think your answer is supported by a Scriptural passage and want to include your support, so be it.

Identifying two chapters of Scripture did not answer the question.

 

[DuckieLady]

My question was to you, based on what you said.

My question to you was:
So women who marry and have a sexual relationship with her husband and multiply can not be dedicated to God?

An expectation was an answer from you in your words.
If you think your answer is supported by a Scriptural passage and want to include your support, so be it.

Yes and come to think of it @Marymog you haven't actually responded to any of the questions asked with a scriptural backup.

Just a bunch church history from ordinary men.

And that's fine, but why not what the Bible teaches?

 

[Philip James]

I think the Bible is the truth so I listen to the Bible.

That's it.

Very good, so let's look at it then:

Malachi 1:11

For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

For 2000 years our brothers and sisters have recognized the celebration of the Eucharist as the fulfillment of this passage. Is there anything else that could even qualify?

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

why does it need to be in scripture?
Christians do not accept the false doctrine of the Bible alone,

Catholic "Theologians" don't accept "Sola Scriptura", because it would limit their ability to introduce PAGAN LIES, and construct their phony "Saints, and Blessed Virgin, and Phony traditions, instead of remaining true to God's WORD (which they falsely claim to have produced). And their "Spirit Led College of Cardinals" couldn't even elect a proper Catholic as "Pope".

 

[Taken]

Hi Mary. Nobody can know God or the truths of God without the Holy Spirit giving them revelation. And we can't pick and choose what we believe to be truth - it is or it isn't. All the bible is meant for all Christians of whatever denomination, but just because a person goes to church or believes in God and knows about the virgin birth does not necessarily make them a Christian.

Like all things, words have multiple meanings. Which meaning one is applying and another is applying....typically ends in the crux of the discussion in disagreement.

Christian is a label, people give themselves, and people give to others.
It is an all encompassing word that means an array of different meaning of things;
A church goer, believer, curious, learning, follower, saved, unsaved, godly, converted, sure, unsure, tasting, eating, wondering, etc. etc.
A Christian can be a saved or unsaved person...

Scripture gives us the knowledge of Gods Truth and agree It is the Holy Spirit that gives individuals the revelation / understanding of Gods Truth.
Personally, my preference of a Label, for a Person IN Christ is:
Converted IN Christ, which has nothing whatsoever to do with church buildings, philosophies of men, traditions of men, water dipping, clerics, wild teachings, blah, blah...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

We know that Scripture is the truth and God isn't hiding that truth from men. Your theory suggest that we really don't know the Truth. Can you explain why God doesn't want us to KNOW the Truth?

Mary

Jesus is the Truth [John 14:6]. Jesus is the Word of God [Rev 19:13].

The scripture, unopened and unread is an unquickened Body without Life until consumed and quickened by the Holy Spirit in a person. Then so quickened it is the Word of God. Without that quickening, any person has only the death that all men have at natural birth even though they call it "life". Real Life was lost to men when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

Jesus brought back to the men the possibility of Life more abundantly [John 10:10].

What a person knows of the Truth is less than a clear knowledge or vision until and if the transition from darkness to Light has been completed. Did the Apostle Paul see "face to face" when he wrote this?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" I Cor 13:12

For this reason, a person needs to grow and become like Him. Did not Jesus grow? Did he not overcome obstacles, which lay between himself and the accomplishment of the will of his Father so as to grow?

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

He increased [grew] until finally he had overcome all of those obstacles in himself [the little world of the man of flesh, Jesus]. Jesus overcame that world and went on to open by his sacrifice the way for others to overcome their little world.

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

What world do we need to overcome?

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:15-16

And why should we... no... why must we, overcome?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev 2:17

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:" Rev 2:26

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev 3:5

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." Rev 3:12

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev 3:21

 

[DuckieLady]

Very good, so let's look at it then:

Malachi 1:11

For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

For 2000 years our brothers and sisters have recognized the celebration of the Eucharist as the fulfillment of this passage. Is there anything else that could even qualify?

Pax et Bonum!

I'm not sure if I understand what you are trying to show me so I will do my best- and make the words a little bigger for you so it is easier to read.

Galatians 1:6-10

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

[theefaith]

Explain lk 10:16

 

[DuckieLady]

You know what bothers me @Philip James isn't a high and mighty "I'm right and you're wrong sort of thing", though I know you do get that and a lot of harshness, I am telling you in love.

Its that when you are all shown what the Bible says, you all turn away from it, despite how clear it is, and go back on about the practices and history of the church.

It appears as though you are subjected to the church's way and I am sorry, but that doesn't sound free. In Christ there is freedom.

"For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding..."

You NEED to have that freedom to search for yourself.

 

[Taken]

@FluffyYellowDuck ~
You have a Catholic explaining how the Catholic Church performs a regular ritual to celebrate the fulfillment of a message taught to OT men.

I agree (a portion of) Mal 1:11 was fulfilled.
A portion meaning...All Nations have not YET acquiesced unto God.
A portion meaning...Yes many Nations DID bring Pure Offerings expressly Offered unto God.

(In my words) Jesus said when eating and drinking, that is a time to remember Him. IMO, sort of like teaching, to remember Him daily, (as I would suppose Jesus was keen on the knowledge men eat and drink every day.....so make it a part of ones practice at meal time, to remember Jesus...AND as a point of effort (at mealtime), men begin learning every day, any place, any time, to think and remember Jesus....which is HOW relationships grow.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[DuckieLady]

@FluffyYellowDuck ~
You have a Catholic explaining how the Catholic Church performs a regular ritual to celebrate the fulfillment of a message taught to OT men.

I agree (a portion of) Mal 1:11 was fulfilled.
A portion meaning...All Nations have not YET acquiesced unto God.
A portion meaning...Yes many Nations DID bring Pure Offerings expressly Offered unto God.

(In my words) Jesus said when eating and drinking, that is a time to remember Him. IMO, sort of like teaching, to remember Him daily, (as I would suppose Jesus was keen on the knowledge men eat and drink every day.....so make it a part of ones practice at meal time, to remember Jesus...AND as a point of effort (at mealtime), men begin learning every day, any place, any time, to think and remember Jesus....which is HOW relationships grow.

Glory to God,
Taken

Ah, I see now. Thanks @Taken I was thrown off a bit there.

 

[Taken]

Explain lk 10:16

Luke 10:
[16] He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Any person who is speaking the Word of God...and there are people hearing a person speak the Word of God...the listeners are hearing the Word of God.

 

[theefaith]

Catholic "Theologians" don't accept "Sola Scriptura", because it would limit their ability to introduce PAGAN LIES, and construct their phony "Saints, and Blessed Virgin, and Phony traditions, instead of remaining true to God's WORD (which they falsely claim to have produced). And their "Spirit Led College of Cardinals" couldn't even elect a proper Catholic as "Pope".

acts 2:42 they held to the doctrine of the “Bible alone”?
Or was it maybe the doctrine of the apostles?

“the Bible alone” is an attack on Christ and his authorized church!