Catholic issues

[Marymog]

You can never know the truth because you accept the Catholic priesthood's authority to do whatever they want, change this, change that, etc... In the Catholic church, the scriptures are not the final authority, the priesthood is! Your religion is whatever the priesthood says it is, irregardless of what scripture says. I have read quotes of Catholic leaders saying they have more authority than Jesus. I read this when researching William Tyndale recently:

Another complete and utter lie. Now I can see why you hate The Church so much. You have believed the lies you have been told. Or are you self taught??

 

[Marymog]

My church does not teach untruths as your does Mary. And if we thought anything but the truth was being preached or taught then there are enough of us mature enough in our faith to point that out to a brother or sister.

Ok....ONCE AGAIN: Who are you to decide if my Church's teachings are wrong? What criteria do you use?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok....ONCE AGAIN: Who are you to decide if my Church's teachings are wrong? What criteria do you use?

The plain words of the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.

And don't you dare suggest that I as a believer do not have the anointing of the Spirit to discern truth from error. Nobody needs to discern truth from error for the believer. That power is given to every believer in this New Covenant. Christ delivered God's people from being at the mercy of the tyranny of the Pharisees and the priesthood. We don't need anyone to tell us if what we are hearing is truth or not. The Holy Spirit does that now.

You just have to accept that and let people who ignore the voice of the Holy Spirit, or who don't seek him, do so to their own destruction. You get so terribly offended just because someone doesn't agree with you that your church organization is the true church (you really aren't different than most Protestant denominations that way). That's spiritual immaturity. We have enough of that crap in Protestantism too, and it's very infantile. Everybody is responsible for themselves to God. We'll all give an account to God for whether or not we used, and listened to, the voice of discernment inside of us. We don't need you to insist you're the only one true church ordained of God (and you certainly don't need to get offended about it). If yours was the one true church, and it isn't, the Holy Spirit is quite capable of telling us that. Not getting that message. Not even remotely. Never have.

 

[amadeus]

Sorry amadeus, Your response had NOTHING to do with God wanting us to know the Truth. That is what we are discussing. You have taught yourself that only God knows the Truth and man can't really know the Truth. But as I proved thru Scripture He wants us to know the Truth so that we can be free.

You did not understand very well what I wrote if you believe I said that man cannot really know the Truth. Carnal man alone is indeed limited, but must a man be always alone in his search?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" Col. 1:27

 

[Marymog]

You did not understand very well what I wrote if you believe I said that man cannot really know the Truth......

Hi amadeus,

I understood you very well. Here is what you said:

Who has something more of that which is right? God knows!

Who is hearing from God and who is hearing from man? God knows!

I can tell you why I believe I am right as you can tell me why you believe that it is you that is right. God knows.

If only God knows who has more of which is right then that means man can't know.

If we don't know "who is hearing from God and who is hearing from man" and only God knows that means man doesn't know.

You give you your reasons for being right, I give my reasons for being right but, according to your theory, only God knows which one of us is right.

So how can you say I did not understand very well???? You have made it clear MULTIPLE times in MULTIPLE post's that only God knows who is right. That means that man will never know what is right or what the truth is. That is what we are discussing and that is what you believe. Stop playing games with me. You usually don't play games so I'm not sure why you are this time......

 

[Marymog]

The plain words of the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.

Stop it....that makes NO SENSE. That is not a criteria. That is the method that you use and your method is subjective.

Can you not see this????

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus,

I understood you very well. Here is what you said:

Who has something more of that which is right? God knows!

Who is hearing from God and who is hearing from man? God knows!

I can tell you why I believe I am right as you can tell me why you believe that it is you that is right. God knows.

If only God knows who has more of which is right then that means man can't know.

If we don't know "who is hearing from God and who is hearing from man" and only God knows that means man doesn't know.

You give you your reasons for being right, I give my reasons for being right but, according to your theory, only God knows which one of us is right.

So how can you say I did not understand very well???? You have made it clear MULTIPLE times in MULTIPLE post's that only God knows who is right. That means that man will never know what is right or what the truth is. That is what we are discussing and that is what you believe. Stop playing games with me. You usually don't play games so I'm not sure why you are this time......

God knows and to extent that God has revealed His knowledge to us, we know. Do you know what and how much I know? Do I know what and how much you know?

 

[Pearl]

@Ferris Bueller said The plain words of the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.

Stop it....that makes NO SENSE.

It does to me.

 

[Marymog]

God knows and to extent that God has revealed His knowledge to us, we know. Do you know what and how much I know? Do I know what and how much you know?

Oh goodness...More word games
Sooooooo what you are saying is that we only know what we think we know and what we think we know might be right or it might be wrong but we really don't know......You might know more than me but I might know more than you but we really don't know because only God knows.....

incredible....

 

[amadeus]

Oh goodness...More word games
Sooooooo what you are saying is that we only know what we think we know and what we think we know might be right or it might be wrong but we really don't know......You might know more than me but I might know more than you but we really don't know because only God knows.....

incredible....

Is it word games or is it in accord what Apostle Paul wrote here?

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" I Cor 13:11-12

When are all of the childish things left behind us? When are we able to see face to face?
When shall we know as we are known?
Are we growing now @Marymog ?
Are we all at exactly the same place in our growth?
Is our vision improving?

 

[Marymog]

Is it word games or is it in accord what Apostle Paul wrote here?

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" I Cor 13:11-12

When are all of the childish things left behind us? When are we able to see face to face?
When shall we know as we are known?
Are we growing now @Marymog ?
Are we all at exactly the same place in our growth?
Is our vision improving?

Yes, it is a word game.

What does what you have written have to do with what we are talking about?

 

[Oceanprayers]

Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1
One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Christ is the king!

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 2:10-11 all people!

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (old covenant Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Jesus Christ is king!

We must submit and obey the king of kings!

And In the absence of the king we must submit and obey the kings ministers!

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18
Jn 20:21-23

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Biblical Example Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him.

Christ is king and a king must rule the hearts and minds of his subjects!

All are subject to christ! Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power (authority) is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Maybe has been answered already but, is that the answer to someone's first question here? About who is the Pope?

 

[Marymog]

@Ferris Bueller said The plain words of the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.


It does to me.

Plain to WHO??? What is plain to me is different than what is plain to you or Joe or Jane or Mike or Lois or the Catholic church or the Baptist churc or the Mormon church. Who decides what are the plain words of the Bible and who is led by the Spirit? YOU?

 

[Oceanprayers]

Why should I become a Catholic?

 

[Marymog]

We don't need anyone to tell us if what we are hearing is truth or not. The Holy Spirit does that now.....

You need yourself to tell you if you are hearing the truth or not.....Don't you? Sooooo you do need someone. You rely on you. I rely on The Church which is the pillar and foundation of truth and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector.....Just like Scripture says.

You even pointed out a passage from Scripture where Paul said we are to have the church settle our differences. Soooooo do we or do we not need anyone to tell us if we are hearing the truth? You are contradicting yourself....

 

[Marymog]

Why should I become a Catholic?

So you can belong to The Church spoken of in Scripture that is the pillar and foundaton of truth and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector. The church that Christ started.

 

[Oceanprayers]

So you can belong to The Church spoken of in Scripture that is the pillar and foundaton of truth and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector. The church that Christ started.

I don't understand this particular part, "and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector.".

Who are you referring to that makes that decision?

 

[Marymog]

I don't understand this particular part, "and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector.".

Who are you referring to that makes that decision?

The Church is the "who": Matthew 18:17

 

[Oceanprayers]

The Church is the "who": Matthew 18:17

Who is that church in Catholicism?

 

[Marymog]

Who is that church in Catholicism?

I don't understand your question....can you rephrase it.