Catholic issues

[amadeus]

Yes, it is a word game.

What does what you have written have to do with what we are talking about?

I guess then that we are not communicating. Where does a person get "ears to hear"?

Have a care sister!

 

[Oceanprayers]

I don't understand your question....can you rephrase it.

You said the church is the "who" in Matthew 18:17.
What constitutes the church you're referring to?
The Pope? All Catholics?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You need yourself to tell you if you are hearing the truth or not.....Don't you? Sooooo you do need someone.

You're not listening. What I need is the HOLY SPIRIT to tell me if what I'm hearing is the truth or not. What I'm hearing can come from many sources - you, my neighbor, my pastor, the person sitting next to me on the bus, someone in a Bible study, a YouTube sermon... But it is the Holy Spirit that teaches me what of all that I'm hearing is the truth and what is not. That's a lifetime study. And the purer one's heart is, and the more willing they are to learn, the more it occurs in them. Most, though, it seems, get stuck in a single denominational vein of thought, and sometimes never even know there is other legitimate thought and insight and revelation about a theological issue.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Soooooo do we or do we not need anyone to tell us if we are hearing the truth?

Correct, I do not need anybody to tell me what knowledge, of all the knowledge that is out there, is truth or not. I need others to tell me what that knowledge is out there. But I do not need anybody but the Holy Spirit to tell me what knowledge is accurate and truthful, and what is not. The people of God no longer have to depend on a special order of priests and teachers and leaders to literally tell them, "this is the truth", and then for the people of God to blindly say, "okay, because you told me it's the truth, then it's the truth". We have been set free from that corrupt system of leadership. The anointing to do that is now within the individual believer...if they'll just use it and stop relying on men to tell them what is true and what is not.

6 ...it is the Spirit who testifies...because the Spirit is the truth.
9 Even if we accept human testimony, the testimony of God (the Spirit) is greater.
1 John 5:6-10​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't understand this particular part, "and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector.".

Who are you referring to that makes that decision?

The church (Matthew 18:17).
The part she is getting wrong is this is in regard to the person who sins against you and won't acknowledge their sin (Matthew 18:15), not who has incorrect doctrine.

In her paradigm of thought, the church is the Catholic organization of theology as understood and discerned by their (supposedly) apostolic priesthood, and so only they can settle matters in the church. But Paul says to appoint even those of no standing to mediate differences between believers (1 Corinthians 6:4). And so in the Protestant paradigm of thought the body of individual believers, all of us, is the church.

 

[Pearl]

I always wonder why Catholics are so closed off to the true gospel. They seem to be so devoted to their church and all its doctrines and teachings that they can't see the true light. Their church seems like their god and we all know what the Living God said about that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I always wonder why Catholics are so closed off to the true gospel. They seem to be so devoted to their church and all its doctrines and teachings that they can't see the true light. Their church seems like their god and we all know what the Living God said about that.

Not sure if this answers or not.

There are quit a few ex catholics in my school. It is the mindset.

They are trained that only they have the truth, They are trained that no one should try to interpret the word that only they have been given the truth and we should not try to interpret ourself. They are trained that everyone is agains them, even the term Protestant, is a term that is used to denote that the only reason people go to another denomination is because they are protesting the true church. Then of course as you see, you have the history excuse, as to how only they have a line of succession to peter.

We saw the same thing with Israel. And how they acted. And defended their leaders and their religion even to the point of death. It was so bad even when the messiah came, they would not listen, but kept defending their own religion. Because in their view. It was given by God through the priests and the prophets.

 

[Pearl]

Not sure if this answers or not.

There are quit a few ex catholics in my school. It is the mindset.

They are trained that only they have the truth, They are trained that no one should try to interpret the word that only they have been given the truth and we should not try to interpret ourself. They are trained that everyone is agains them, even the term Protestant, is a term that is used to denote that the only reason people go to another denomination is because they are protesting the true church. Then of course as you see, you have the history excuse, as to how only they have a line of succession to peter.

We saw the same thing with Israel. And how they acted. And defended their leaders and their religion even to the point of death. It was so bad even when the messiah came, they would not listen, but kept defending their own religion. Because in their view. It was given by God through the priests and the prophets.

Excellent summing up, but they can break free because we had ex-catholics in our none denominational church and with their priest's blessing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Excellent summing up, but they can break free because we had ex-catholics in our none denominational church and with their priest's blessing.

Yes it an.Like Saul/Paul and nicodemus and others broke away from the Jewish church, and found the true Christ.

 

[Pearl]

Because they were 'baptised' as babies. This assurance deprives them of making the choice for themselves later in life to come to Jesus for themselves and be truly born again. Even though Jesus himself said not to hinder them they still do.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 18:15-17&version=NIV
“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them,” Luke 18:16

For me it's not that I particularly want anybody to leave the Catholic church but I do hope that more of them would ditch the false doctrines and pursue the truth as has been explained to them many times. At least think about it prayerfully.

 

[Illuminator]

Why should I become a Catholic?

150 Reasons why I am Catholic

 

[Philip James]

Why should I become a Catholic?

To participate in the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

you too! are invited!

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Philip James]

They are trained that only they have the truth, They are trained that no one should try to interpret the word that only they have been given the truth and we should not try to interpret ourself. They are trained that everyone is agains them, even the term Protestant, is a term that is used to denote that the only reason people go to another denomination is because they are protesting the true church. Then of course as you see, you have the history excuse, as to how only they have a line of succession to peter.

What a horrible mischaracterization of what we say and believe... For a proper understanding I suggest one read the whole catechism section on the Church beginning here: Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Wherein you will also find this:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276


Pax et Bonum!

 

[Oceanprayers]

150 Reasons why I am Catholic

Thank you. I'll look that over.

 

[Oceanprayers]

To participate in the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

you too! are invited!

Pax et Bonum!

That invitation is only open to those who would become Catholic?

What of Protestants?

 

[Oceanprayers]

The church (Matthew 18:17).
The part she is getting wrong is this is in regard to the person who sins against you and won't acknowledge their sin (Matthew 18:15), not who has incorrect doctrine.

In her paradigm of thought, the church is the Catholic organization of theology as understood and discerned by their (supposedly) apostolic priesthood, and so only they can settle matters in the church. But Paul says to appoint even those of no standing to mediate differences between believers (1 Corinthians 6:4). And so in the Protestant paradigm of thought the body of individual believers, all of us, is the church.

Thank you for that insight. It helps.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What a horrible mischaracterization of what we say and believe...

I just repeat what I have heard fro you and other catholics. And from people who have left your church.


If I want to know what someone believes I speak to them, I do not go to sources that try to tell me what others believe.

 

[JohnPaul]

What a horrible mischaracterization of what we say and believe... For a proper understanding I suggest one read the whole catechism section on the Church beginning here: Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Wherein you will also find this:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276


Pax et Bonum!

A former Catholic speaking, why all the rituals and costumes and statues in the Catholic church, surely Jesus and the Apostles or even the first Pope St.Peter did not wear these garments?

And the bread and wine as a symbol of Christ's body and blood were done at the last supper, and they did not have fancy chalices or a gold and marble laden building at the last super or holy water to bless themselves before they entered said building.

I know many Protestant Churches do this at Passover when Christ was crucified, in remembrance of the Last Supper, I've witnessed it myself but with actual bread and not wine but some other non-alcoholic beverage, once a year.

These things are not symbols of humility or humbleness but of richness and stature.

 

[Illuminator]

Because they were 'baptised' as babies. This assurance deprives them of making the choice for themselves later in life to come to Jesus for themselves and be truly born again. Even though Jesus himself said not to hinder them they still do.
“Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them,” Luke 18:16

For me it's not that I particularly want anybody to leave the Catholic church but I do hope that more of them would ditch the false doctrines and pursue the truth as has been explained to them many times. At least think about it prayerfully.

First, you slam infant baptism, then you provide a verse that supports infant baptism. Luther and Calvin baptized infants, so an "adult only baptism" is a post reformist invention. Then you insult us with the charge of "false doctrines", and don't justify this insult. You contradict yourself using scripture. You make no sense.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

First, you slam infant baptism, then you provide a verse that supports infant baptism.

I think she brought this up before - how does an infant believe in Jesus?