Earburner
Well-Known Member
There are several different ones by different artists.Never saw that painting before.
Did you like it, for what it is scripturally telling?
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There are several different ones by different artists.Never saw that painting before.
By reading your above response, I Just thought that I should get to the point.EVERY ONE of these verses is a warning to converted, bopen again Christians who have been indwelt with the Holy Spirit - NOT to fall nack into darkness, lest they LOSE their secure position:
There are several different ones by different artists.
Did you like it, for what it is scripturally telling?
And when did I ever make that claim?By reading your above response, I Just thought that I should get to the point.
No one who is born of flesh in this world is automatically born again/saved, just because they are living.
To be born again is a choice of our own free will.
We must ask Him, that HE will baptize us with His Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13.
No one slides through the "Door" into the KoG, just because they went to church.
Revelation 3:20No, don’t care for it.
Never have like paintings, pictures, sculptures, etc. supposedly representing God or Christ the Lord Jesus.
The REASON I do not like it is:
Because the concept goes back to ancient days of early man, when men could NOT BELIEVE, without seeing something. God called them “stiffnecked” and “stubborn” and “rebellious”.
Ex 22:9
2 Chron 30:8
Pss 78:8
Acts 7:51
Art is a funny thing that comes from the mind of the artist...
And the onlooker can guess or assume the artist’s intent.
Revelation 3:20
Jesus is "the Door" to God's salvation for us.
We must answer His "knocking" upon our lives, and open up to His Door of His Holy Spirit, that He may enter into us.
HE himself, respecting our individual self wills, has no desire or means to enter in, unless we allow/ask Him to do so, as symbolized in the painting, of Him having no door knob on His side.
We must OPEN the door, and ask/invite Him into our life. Luke 11:13.
I did when I was a practicing Catholic, that's was over a decade ago.Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?
No salvation outside the Catholic Church?
Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.
"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"
830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.
47 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
And yet
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321
Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?
OK, now that we got that straight, about the physical and spiritual aspects of Baptism, does Jesus Baptize repentant Protestant believers with His Holy Spirit?And when did I ever make that claim?
I have stated ALL along that Baptism is the FIRST step for a Christian. Living a life of doing the will of God (Matt. 7:21) and enduring to the end in faith (Matt. 10:22) is what is requried of us to enter Heaven.
EVERY ONE of these verses is a warning to converted, bopen again Christians who have been indwelt with the Holy Spirit - NOT to fall nack into darkness, lest they LOSE their secure position:
Utter nonsense!
The converted IN Christ CAN NOT FALL AWAY!
Believers CAN FALL AWAY!
I did when I was a practicing Catholic, who’s was over a decade ago.
I have seen no evidence here of any anti-Catholic activity or speech. I, despite what you may think, have never been anti Catholic. Anti catholicism certainly, and with good reason. And I'm willing to give sound biblical support for my views of you are interested. Just don't write them off beforehand as psychotic ramblings.
Yes. We don't tell Jesus what to do. But technically, water baptism removes Original Sin, allowing for the release of the Holy Spirit as manifested in gifts later in life. So it's not a "baptism" of the Holy Spirit per se, but a release of what has already been given (in most cases). Thus, the tension between water baptism and Holy Spirit manifestations is resolved.OK, now that we got that straight, about the physical and spiritual aspects of Baptism, does Jesus Baptize repentant Protestant believers with His Holy Spirit?
In your roundabout way, thank you for agreeing that Jesus DOES Baptize ALL repentant Protestant believers WITH the Holy Spirit.Yes. We don't tell Jesus what to do. But technically, water baptism removes Original Sin, allowing for the release of the Holy Spirit as manifested in gifts later in life. So it's not a "baptism" of the Holy Spirit per se, but a release of what has already been given (in most cases). Thus, the tension between water baptism and Holy Spirit manifestations is resolved.
Keep in mind water baptism is normative, as there is also baptism of desire and baptism of blood. It's all one baptism when one understands what baptism means.
IF so, then Where are the power, signs, and wonders Almost Everyone is soIn your roundabout way, thank you for agreeing that Jesus DOES Baptize ALL repentant Protestant believers WITH the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:8-9
Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?
No salvation outside the Catholic Church?
Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.
"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"
830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.
47 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
And yet
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321
Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?
The Catholic Church recognize Trinitarian Protestant Baptism as vallid.OK, now that we got that straight, about the physical and spiritual aspects of Baptism, does Jesus Baptize repentant Protestant believers with His Holy Spirit?
This is unBiblical fiction.Utter nonsense!
The converted IN Christ CAN NOT FALL AWAY!
Believers CAN FALL AWAY!
Personally and scripturally, I perceive and believe that no Born again Christian can "fall away" from their faith in Christ. Jude 1:24,2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (EPIGNOSIS) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.
Jude 1:24 states firmly:Personally and scripturally, I perceive and believe that no Born again Christian can "fall away" from their faith in Christ. Jude 1:24,
However, those professing christians that do fall away, they never belonged to Christ in the first place, because they remained in the situation of being "half baked". They came to Christ for God's forgiveness of their sin, but they never "asked" or "knocked" to receive God's Holy Spirit. Therefore Romans 8:8-9 applies to them. All of such are exactly who the
"Five foolish virgins" are, as described in that parable. They have a profession of faith, but continue to remain uncommitted in their relationship to God.