Catholics

[Job]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"Catholic" is just a word, meaning: Universal...or in simple terms: Big.

The riff of opposition facing the Catholic church is not one of origins, but of adding the traditions of men and revering men over the risen Christ and his Helper, the Holy Spirit.

Appointing a Pope over the church is arguable, but not defensible. The care of the church was not given to men. The flesh proceeds the spirit...but it does not lead. Never. The church, by definition - has no authority.

Thank you for this charitable post.
I believe you're wrong, however - and here's why . . .

The appointment of Church leadership came from Christ Himself - not from "traditions of men".
We see the succession of these offices in Acts 1, when the Disciples and Apostles are choosing a replacement for Judas. Verse 20 says, "Let another take his office." The word for "office" here is Episkopay - or "Bishopric".

In the 2nd century - Irenaeus, in his treatise, Against Heretics, lists all of the Popes from his day going back to Peter.

Eminent Protestant historian, J.N.D. Kelley chronicled all of the Popes from the 20th century going all the way back to Peter in his Book, Oxford Dictionary of Popes.

Respected Protestant scholar, Kenneth Samples wrote the following in his treatise, What Think Ye of Rome:
"Catholicism, on the other hand, is the largest body within Christendom, having almost a two‐thousand‐year history (it has historical continuity with apostolic, first century Christianity), and is the ecclesiastical tree from which Protestantism originally splintered."

As for the word "Catholic" - it means more than just "universal" - and Ignatius used it as a title - not a description.
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “ekklesia katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
Καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
Ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely

"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Finally - as to "revering men over the risen Christ" - sorry, but this is a flat out lie.
We simply do NOT do this - and the onus is on YOU to prove this nonsense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BoL could you lighten up? a little? no one is out to get you bro
you're fine just the way you are k

I said it before and I'll say it again: If you want me to stop exposing you - then don't give me reason to. Simply stop lying and I'll lighten up.

Pretty simple, really . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just can't stop lying, can you, Job?

Is this an "appearance of evil"??

 

[BreadOfLife]

nonetheless, those who are comfortable praying to Mary or Christ obviously believe that they are as justified as those who pray only to God, and that is where the lesson is imo

Next time you ask anybody to pray for you or you pray for somebody else - you can eat your words.
Something tells me you've already done this, which makes you a hypocrite . . .

 

[Job]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

[ScottA]

The appointment of Church leadership came from Christ Himself - not from "traditions of men".

At the risk of building error upon error - let's stop here.

Christ did not appoint Peter with "leadership", but rather, service ("feed my sheep", rather than lead my sheep).

The "leadership" of "building" His church, was identified by His reference to "My Father in heaven."

Do you not know that both Peter and the spirit of God - by definition, are "the rock?" Therefore, do not be a child of presumption - "do not sit down in the best place, lest one more honorable than you be invited by him; and he who invited you and him come and say to you, ‘Give place to this man,’ and then you begin with shame to take the lowest place."

 

[bbyrd009]

Next time you ask anybody to pray for you or you pray for somebody else - you can eat your words.
Something tells me you've already done this, which makes you a hypocrite . . .

?
sorry you read it that way, i did not mean to make a judgement either way. If my next door neighbor is praying at all i am thrilled lol; i don't need the details

 

[mjrhealth]

The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (Col. 1:18). and He compares His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5). The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23) and the pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

True just not your church please stop deceving the people by telling the world that your church is His church and saying it is His church but actually speaking of your chruch, That is what "deception" is, and teh devils favourite flavour.

 

[bbyrd009]

i hope you hook as many suckers into believing the Church is some worldly institution as possible. You know that it is you that is in fact the liar, as evidenced by your preoccupation with labelling everyone else that anyway. Truth does not need to be defended in such a childish manner.

 

[epostle1]

"Catholic" is just a word, meaning: Universal...or in simple terms: Big.

If that is true, what does Protestant mean? Is it just a word meaning ...what?
CATHOLIC comes from the Greek word Katholikos, which was later Latinized into Catholicus.
It means 'Universal', which in itself means, 'of or relating to, or affecting the entire world and ALL peoples therein'. It means, ALL encompassing, comprehensibly broad, general, and containing ALL that is necessary. In summation, it means ALL people in ALL places, having ALL that is necessary, and for ALL time.
It is infered in Matthew 28:19-20, "Go, therefore and make disciples of ALL nations...teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you; And behold, I am with you ALL days, even unto the consummation of the world. That is a statement of Universality, Katholicos, Catholicus, Catholic.

"proclaimed (KATAnggeletai) in the whole universe (en HOLO to kosmo)” (Rom. 1:8)
Thus the word KATAHOLOS or Catholic in English originated from Scriptures - Romans 1:8

"So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Sama'ria had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied." [Acts 9:31 RSV]

There the words "church throughout all" is translated from the Greek words "Ecclesia kata holis"

Thus the word KATAHOLOS or Catholic in English originated from Scriptures - Romans 1:8 and Acts 9:31, and inferred in Matthew 28:19

"Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
St. Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Smyrneans, paragraph 8, of 106 A.D.
Undoubtedly the word was in use before the time of this writing.

Other written records of the term "CATHOLIC" describing a character of the Christian Church:

Martyrdom of St. Polycarp 155AD;
Clement of Alexandria, Stromateis 202AD;
Cyprian, Unity of the Catholic Church 251AD;
Cyprian, Letter to Florentius, 254AD

The riff of opposition facing the Catholic church is not one of origins, but of adding the traditions of men and revering men over the risen Christ and his Helper, the Holy Spirit.

"Adding the traditions of men" occur when you change the meaning of tradition. There are no added traditions. You make a straw man fallacy. Funny how this myth is always asserted but no "traditions of men" are ever identified. It's true we honor and respect certain people, the Bible tells us to do that, but to say they are revered over the risen Christ is highly insulting. Customs of reverence is not tradition nor is it worship.

Appointing a Pope over the church is arguable, but not defensible. The care of the church was not given to men. The flesh proceeds the spirit...but it does not lead. Never. The church, by definition - has no authority.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Therefore is a conjunctive adverb, it joins vs 18 with vs 19. Jesus gives the Church His very own authority to baptize and TEACH. This commission is not directed towards any individual believer but to the Apostles (Magisterium)
What year did Jesus suddenly decide to go back on His promise to be with us always?

The Bible repeatedly teaches that the Church is indefectible; therefore, the hypothetical of rejecting the (one true, historic) Church, as supposedly going against the Bible, is impossible according to the Bible. It is not a situation that would ever come up, because of God’s promised protection.

What the Bible says is to reject those who cause divisions, which is the very essence of the onset of Protestantism: schism, sectarianism, and division. It is Protestantism that departed from the historic Church, which is indefectible and infallible (see also 1 Tim 3:15).

 

[BreadOfLife]

At the risk of building error upon error - let's stop here.

Christ did not appoint Peter with "leadership", but rather, service ("feed my sheep", rather than lead my sheep).

The "leadership" of "building" His church, was identified by His reference to "My Father in heaven."

Do you not know that both Peter and the spirit of God - by definition, are "the rock?" Therefore, do not be a child of presumption - "do not sit down in the best place, lest one more honorable than you be invited by him; and he who invited you and him come and say to you, ‘Give place to this man,’ and then you begin with shame to take the lowest place."

It is erroneous to say that Christ didn't establish hierarchy in His Church.
Paul emphasizes this very thing:
1 Cor. 12:28
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles (bishops), second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and WHO ARE OVER YOU IN THE LORD and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

We've already established by Acts 1:20 that the office of Apostle (Bishop) is one of succession.
As for Peter . . .

As you know, the Lord said to Peter, “And so I say to you, you are Peter (Petros), and upon this rock (Petra) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

Non-Catholics usually say that Peter is not the Rock but that the Rock refers to his confession of faith. It couldn’t be Peter because the Greek words used here are Petros, meaning, small stone and Petra, meaning, large mass of rock. They say that the Rock is Jesus because he is referred to as Rock elsewhere, including, Matt. 21:42 and 1 Pet. 2:3-8. The problem with this is that Jesus didn’t speak Greek to his Apostles - he spoke Aramaic.

What Jesus actually said was, “And so I say to you, you are Kepha, and upon this rock Kepha I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

This is why St. Peter is referred to as Cephas in many of St. Paul’s letters, because Cephas is the closest Greek transliteration of the Aramaic, Kepha.

There is another problem for non-Catholics. Petra is a feminine Greek noun and could hardly be used to describe a man, so the word was translated as Petros in Scripture because it was being used in reference to a man. Jesus clearly appointed St. Peter as earthly head of the Church and Chief Apostle here in Matthew’s Gospel as well as Luke 22:31-32, where he told Peter that he prayed for him (singular) to strengthen the other Apostles in his absence and in John 21:15-19, where he told Peter alone 3 times to feed his sheep.

 

[BreadOfLife]

True just not your church please stop deceving the people by telling the world that your church is His church and saying it is His church but actually speaking of your chruch, That is what "deception" is, and teh devils favourite flavour.

When YOU can show me that ANY of the Protestant sects were here before the Catholic Church - you might have a point.
Unfortunately for YOU - you don't . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Just can't stop lying, can you, Job?

Is this an "appearance of evil"??

as evil as evil gets, yes

 

[aspen]

BoL - is the Roman Catholic Church perfect?

 

[BreadOfLife]

as evil as evil gets, yes

And that's a warped and Scripturally-bankrupt claim.

Now, tell me WHY it's evil . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

i hope you hook as many suckers into believing the Church is some worldly institution as possible. You know that it is you that is in fact the liar, as evidenced by your preoccupation with labelling everyone else that anyway. Truth does not need to be defended in such a childish manner.

And the lies YOU concoct are as childish as you accuse me of being.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BoL - is the Roman Catholic Church perfect?

Is the Catholic Church perfect?
It, like every other so-called "church" is made up of flawed, sinful human beings.

Are any of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects perfect?

 

[BreadOfLife]

?
sorry you read it that way, i did not mean to make a judgement either way. If my next door neighbor is praying at all i am thrilled lol; i don't need the details

So, you reject anybody praying for you - is that it??
James admonishes us to pray for one another (James 5:16).

What exactly is it that you have against praying for each other - or asking each other to pray for us?
It's certainly not a Biblical argument.

Must be some man-made tradition of your own . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Rubbish.
Is this picture of a woman kissing a reminder of her dead son, "evil"??

YOU couldn't tell the truth if you're soul depended on it - which it DOES . . .