Caught Up = Rapture

[joshhuntnm]

he question of the rapture of the saints has been hotly debated. Early in the nineteenth century some believers in Scotland and England formulated the theory that a seven-year tribulation period will precede the return of Jesus Christ. There is to be a rapture of the church out of the world before this takes place. This means two returns of Christ, not one.
While many sincere Christians hold to this theory, it does not have much solid biblical evidence behind it.
Let me put before you a view of the rapture that has a much firmer foundation. The question is whether we will be caught up in the air in order to be removed from some tribulation to come, or to meet the Lord at his return. I believe the saints ascend into the air in order to fulfil one of the most fundamental principles in biblical theology: the people of God exalt Christ.
The following historical example follows a possible interpretive backdrop to Scripture. Biblical writers often used well-known situations as an analogy or helpful insight into the nature of the spiritual realm.
When a Roman army returned to Rome it would camp outside the city and send a tribune to tell the Senate of their return. The city would prepare to receive the army by setting up arches of triumph and festooning the streets with garlands.
When the city was prepared to receive the army, trumpets would be blown, and the army would begin its march. Emblazoned on its banners were the letters “SPQR,” which stood for Senatus Populuspuce Romanus, “the Senate and the People of Rome.” Before the march began the citizens were invited to go out and join the marching army that had fought and conquered in their name.
Is this not what the New Testament is saying about the rapture? Before Jesus returns he will catch his people up to join him in his victory march back to earth.




Sproul, R. (1993). Before the face of God: Book 2: A daily guide for living from the Gospel of Luke (electronic ed.). Grand Rapids: Baker Book House; Ligonier Ministries.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

"The amazing things is that these people - whose goal is not to find support for a specific view on the topic, but rather the actual TRUTH - have come to different conclusions."

Ya, I don't know, but at least the different views we have as Christians about the end times has kept us going back to scripture again and again to seek the truth. There has to be something said for that. People are searching for wisdom and more importantly application within that wisdom or at least I hope they are and not just taking at face value what someone else studied and calling it truth.

I agree completely Martin.
Well said.

 

[us2are1]

Hi Son of Man,

You don't believe in the (what we are calling) Rapture?

No! There is no rapture in scripture. The Resurrection of the Dead saints and the catching up of the Living saints at the return of Christ is into the air of earth. Where they will fly down on the heads of the enemies of God and rain fire from heaven on them. Joel 2 tells that story.

1 Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the Lord is coming, For it is at hand:
2 A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains. A people come, great and strong, The like of whom has never been; Nor will there ever be any such after them, Even for many successive generations.
3 A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land is like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness; Surely nothing shall escape them.
4 Their appearance is like the appearance of horses; And like swift steeds, so they run.
5 With a noise like chariots Over mountaintops they leap, Like the noise of a flaming fire that devours the stubble, Like a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before them the people writhe in pain; All faces are drained of color.
7 They run like mighty men, They climb the wall like men of war; Every one marches in formation, And they do not break ranks.
8 They do not push one another; Every one marches in his own column. Though they lunge between the weapons, They are not cut down.
9 They run to and fro in the city, They run on the wall; They climb into the houses, They enter at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth quakes before them, The heavens tremble; The sun and moon grow dark, And the stars diminish their brightness.
11 The Lord gives voice before His army, For His camp is very great; For strong is the One who executes His word. For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; Who can endure it?
12 "Now, therefore," says the Lord, "Turn to Me with all your heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning."

31 But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all,

 

[martinlawrencescott]

To Joshhuntnm,

I was wondering if you had considered this view. The number one reason post tribulation rapture theory diminishes the authority of the mid trib/pre wrath-rapture theory is the fact that Jesus doesn't return twice. Have you thought however the fact that Jesus might descend to the earth over the course of a 3 1/2 year period? Meaning the trumpet and rapture is when he starts his descent say from space and the last day, Bam! He officially returns. Let me know what you think,

M

 

[us2are1]

2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[veteran]

I don't equate a pre-trib rapture believer's denial of Christ's direct statements in Matt.24:29-31 that His coming and our gathering is after the tribulation as an example of a goal to find the actual truth in God's Word. Doing that kind of denial of the Scripture as it is written is instead seeking to heed men's doctrines.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Martin, Your words: The number one reason post tribulation rapture theory diminishes the authority of the mid trib/pre wrath-rapture theory is the fact that Jesus doesn't return twice."

I believe He comes once but it's a two-part event. His arrival in the air for the rapture and His literal return to earth for Armageddon. The bible gives us two completely different pictures of His return. Ponder if you will these verses.

Acts 1:9-11 - "[sup] [/sup]And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[sup]10 [/sup]And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[sup]11 [/sup]Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

I believe the picture of His return for the rapture,"in like manner" is described in Matt. 24:30 - "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Now compare those verses with the return of Christ for Armageddon. Rev. 19:11-16 - "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[sup]12 [/sup]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[sup]13 [/sup]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[sup]14 [/sup]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[sup]15 [/sup]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[sup]16 [/sup]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords."

Two different pictures for each different aspect of His coming.

 

[tgwprophet]

Rapture, true or false? - True Who is the Rapture for? ( narrow generalization ) The Rapture is not for those that know , but rather for those that know not. When is the Rapture? the Rapture could be either... a continuing Rapture taking place at this time or that for this person or that person. Or it could be an event that transpires all at once all over the earth. --- just my opinion....maybe

 

[veteran]

There's only one time of Christ's return to this earth, and it involves the gathering of His Church from Heaven and on earth to go to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 declares His feet will set upon the Mount of Olives with an impending destruction happening in Jerusalem, also fulfiling the Acts 2 prophecy of His coming in like manner as He ascended, which is also the events of the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, and the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15, and the Armageddon event, all combined for the "day of the Lord". Those events are to occur very quickly per both the OT prophets and NT Apostles.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

This is what I say. There is no rapture, at least not now. God didnt put us on the earth only to take us out. I have a future planned out. I want to get married on this earth and get a house and travel around in Canada and Hollywood when Im older. Thats just me. God has plans. Dont waste your whole life worrying about this depressing nonsense
God bless

Hi Warrior,

You are so right, there is no need to worry. Jesus told his disciples that their world (the age of law) was coming to an end but our world (age of grace) will never end.

Eph 3:21

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Hi joshhuntnm,

To understand the bible the first thing is to recognize to whom the scripture it is addressed to. One will quickly realize that the Thessalionians were the recipients of "we" who are alive and remain.

In the book of Revelation the recipients were the seven churches of Asia that existed at that time and all things written told of Jesus coming quickly, which would mean very soon for them.

According to Jesus in Matthew 24, the sign of his coming would be the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. That happened in 70 AD. That would also be the last day that Martha was talking about when she made the statement:
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

Hey Trekson,

Hi Martin, Your words: The number one reason post tribulation rapture theory diminishes the authority of the mid trib/pre wrath-rapture theory is the fact that Jesus doesn't return twice."

I believe He comes once but it's a two-part event. His arrival in the air for the rapture and His literal return to earth for Armageddon. The bible gives us two completely different pictures of His return. Ponder if you will these verses.

I agree with you pretty much completely, but for the sake of avoiding argument where there doesn't need to be any, instead of calling it a 2 part event, I consider it one event that occurs over the course of 3 1/2 years. Veteran would argue this can't be the case because of the word "quickly", which I take more literally I suppose than he does. Meaning, I believe quickly has to do with the actual speed of his descent, like an actual calculable speed over a 3 1/2 year period until the time he enters and actually descends to Jerusalem, or wherever outside he ascended in the first place. That would make more sense since we will somehow be able to see him descending from all around the world. So maybe where we could chart his course and the general time he would arrive.

 

[veteran]

I agree with you pretty much completely, but for the sake of avoiding argument where there doesn't need to be any, instead of calling it a 2 part event, I consider it one event that occurs over the course of 3 1/2 years. Veteran would argue this can't be the case because of the word "quickly", which I take more literally I suppose than he does. Meaning, I believe quickly has to do with the actual speed of his descent, like an actual calculable speed over a 3 1/2 year period until the time he enters and actually descends to Jerusalem, or wherever outside he ascended in the first place. That would make more sense since we will somehow be able to see him descending from all around the world. So maybe where we could chart his course and the general time he would arrive.

What's written in Revelation 11 shows Christ's coming will not be over a period of 3.5 years, but at the end of that period.

The 42 months of Rev.11:2 is about the Gentiles treading Jerusalem under foot for that period. It's on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. That's also the 1260 days that God's two witnesses are given to prophesy in Jerusalem, with their being killed at the end of that 1260 days period. That means at the end of the 42 months peirod also, for they are both the same timing of the latter half of the tribulation with a few days difference.

So when their 1260 days is up, they are killed with their dead bodies left laying in the street in Jerusalem. After 3.5 days they arise, then the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period comes "quickly", which is about Christ's coming. Thus our Lord Jesus was specific with dividing those two trumpet - woe period's events.

 

[us2are1]

Hi Warrior,

You are so right, there is no need to worry. Jesus told his disciples that their world (the age of law) was coming to an end but our world (age of grace) will never end.

I would like to see the scripture that says that. I don't believe it is there.

What's written in Revelation 11 shows Christ's coming will not be over a period of 3.5 years, but at the end of that period.

The 42 months of Rev.11:2 is about the Gentiles treading Jerusalem under foot for that period. It's on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. That's also the 1260 days that God's two witnesses are given to prophesy in Jerusalem, with their being killed at the end of that 1260 days period. That means at the end of the 42 months peirod also, for they are both the same timing of the latter half of the tribulation with a few days difference.

So when their 1260 days is up, they are killed with their dead bodies left laying in the street in Jerusalem. After 3.5 days they arise, then the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period comes "quickly", which is about Christ's coming. Thus our Lord Jesus was specific with dividing those two trumpet - woe period's events.

It is about the world trampling the people of God under foot. It is world wide and has nothing to do with a nation of antichrists. Alltho they will trample the people of god underfoot as it is their custom to do.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

to Veteran-

I can see how Revelation 11 demonstrates Christ's coming at the end of the 3 1/2 year period, but not how it discounts a 3 1/2 year descent.

 

[veteran]

to Veteran-

I can see how Revelation 11 demonstrates Christ's coming at the end of the 3 1/2 year period, but not how it discounts a 3 1/2 year descent.

I can easily see the difference per God's Word. It's because God's Word gives us a 'specific' time for Christ's second coming within the timeline order. Sorry to say, but many today do not understand that timeline order of events per God's Word.

The only reason I can see that some want to create or allow His coming outside the Biblical timeline order is so they can push deception instead, which our Heavenly Father allows by the way, to test us to see who we will listen to.

 

[epostle1]

"...When a Roman army returned to Rome it would camp outside the city and send a tribune to tell the Senate of their return. The city would prepare to receive the army by setting up arches of triumph and festooning the streets with garlands.
When the city was prepared to receive the army, trumpets would be blown, and the army would begin its march. Emblazoned on its banners were the letters “SPQR,” which stood for Senatus Populuspuce Romanus, “the Senate and the People of Rome.” Before the march began the citizens were invited to go out and join the marching army that had fought and conquered in their name.
Is this not what the New Testament is saying about the rapture? Before Jesus returns he will catch his people up to join him in his victory march back to earth.

Yup. History records that the color of the horse the victorious Roman 'general' rode in the parade was WHITE.

"...Rev. 19:11-16 - "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war..."

paganism!!!!!!! paganism!!!!!!!! aaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!






Is Catholicism Pagan?