Caught Up = Rapture

[RichardBurger]

Caught up = Rapture:

RAPTURE: = 1. The state of being carried away, with joy, love, etc. ; ecstasy.
2. An expression of great joy, pleasure, etc.
3. A carrying away or being carried away in body or spirit.

2 Corinthians 12:1-5
12 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord:
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago — whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows - such a one was “”CAUGHT UP”” to the third heaven.
3 And I know such a man — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows —
4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities.
NKJV

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be “”CAUGHT UP”” together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
NKJV

Revelation 12:4-5
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was “”CAUGHT UP”” to God and His throne.
NKJV

 

[Rach1370]

There's so much argument and controversy over the rapture! Which is silly, I think, since it's more about the 'timing' of the rapture. The bible quite clearly talks of a time when Jesus will return and believers still alive at that point will be taking into the air. To me, that spells out 'rapture'...whatever you want to call it! I don't think it's going to be pre-trib...which is where a lot of the contention comes from, but I don't doubt that some people will be alive to see Jesus coming with the clouds, and be lifted up to meet Him...lucky ducks!

 

[RichardBurger]

There's so much argument and controversy over the rapture! Which is silly, I think, since it's more about the 'timing' of the rapture. The bible quite clearly talks of a time when Jesus will return and believers still alive at that point will be taking into the air. To me, that spells out 'rapture'...whatever you want to call it! I don't think it's going to be pre-trib...which is where a lot of the contention comes from, but I don't doubt that some people will be alive to see Jesus coming with the clouds, and be lifted up to meet Him...lucky ducks!

The children of God will not suffer the wrath of God.

Ephesians 2:3-4
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
NKJV

Romans 5:8-10
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
NKJV

I truely believe that the ones that are saved under the grace gospel given to Paul, by Jesus, and sent to us by Paul will be taken out of this world before the wrath of God is poured out on those that rejected Him and those today who reject Him by rejecting the gospel of grace.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words

 

[JLB]

The children of God will not suffer the wrath of God.

Ephesians 2:3-4
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
NKJV

Romans 5:8-10
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
NKJV

I truely believe that the ones that are saved under the grace gospel given to Paul, by Jesus, and sent to us by Paul will be taken out of this world before the wrath of God is poured out on those that rejected Him and those today who reject Him by rejecting the gospel of grace.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words

God's wrath is set aside for the wicked.

However, the wrath of Satan is a different matter. Please consider the following scripture.

Revelation 12:9-17

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time." 13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

A time and times and a half of time = 3 1/2 years which is the time period of the great tribulation. This time period is evedent throughout scripture.


It is important to prepare people for what is coming, lest their blood be upon our heads.


Thanks, JLB

 

[Warrior]

This is what I say. There is no rapture, at least not now. God didnt put us on the earth only to take us out. I have a future planned out. I want to get married on this earth and get a house and travel around in Canada and Hollywood when Im older. Thats just me. God has plans. Dont waste your whole life worrying about this depressing nonsense
God bless

 

[us2are1]

Caught up = Rapture:

RAPTURE: = 1. The state of being carried away, with joy, love, etc. ; ecstasy.
2. An expression of great joy, pleasure, etc.
3. A carrying away or being carried away in body or spirit.

Rapture reverts back to it's original creators who were evil men selling God for monetary gain. as it continues on for the sake of book sales and film sales to this very day. The Rapture Theory has nothing to do with scripture or the Gospel of Christ. Harpazo means "taken by force". Here is the word harpazo used in another scripture where it was translated correctly.

John 6
15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force (harpazo) to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.

When the saints are taken up into the air of earth by force, by the power of God , first the dead in Christ and then those who are alive at His coming. They will stay here on earth and rule with Christ for a thousand years.

They will gather those who are left of the world that were not destroyed by the great tribulation and the Lord and His saints will separate them one from another as a shepherd seperates the goats from the sheep.

Every saint will see all of it happen. Just like the Psalm says. Just like Christ told them to not be deceived. Because the evil ones will try to deceive if possible even the elect. Those who believe in a rapture have already been deceived. They have been brought into the bondage of lies by those who are suposed to be setting them free with the truth.

Matt 24
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

The elect couldn't be tempted with desception if they are not here.

Here is where the saints of God and His elect will be durring the great tribulation. (The wrath of God)

psalm 91
1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you.
8 Only with your eyes shall you look, And see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because you have made the Lord, who is my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place,
10 No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;

2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

 

[RichardBurger]

Rapture reverts back to it's original creators who were evil men selling God for monetary gain. as it continues on for the sake of book sales and film sales to this very day. The Rapture Theory has nothing to do with scripture or the Gospel of Christ. Harpazo means "taken by force". Here is the word harpazo used in another scripture where it was translated correctly.

John 6
15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force (harpazo) to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.

When the saints are taken up into the air of earth by force, by the power of God , first the dead in Christ and then those who are alive at His coming. They will stay here on earth and rule with Christ for a thousand years.

They will gather those who are left of the world that were not destroyed by the great tribulation and the Lord and His saints will separate them one from another as a shepherd seperates the goats from the sheep.

Every saint will see all of it happen. Just like the Psalm says. Just like Christ told them to not be deceived. Because the evil ones will try to deceive if possible even the elect. Those who believe in a rapture have already been deceived. They have been brought into the bondage of lies by those who are suposed to be setting them free with the truth.

Matt 24
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

The elect couldn't be tempted with desception if they are not here.

Here is where the saints of God and His elect will be durring the great tribulation. (The wrath of God)

psalm 91
1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you.
8 Only with your eyes shall you look, And see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because you have made the Lord, who is my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place,
10 No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;

2 Peter 2
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

The sins of the children of God can not overcome them since they have been covered by the blood of Jesus. But most will not believe this. As for me, I will not let those that preach otherwise put me back under the bondage of my sins of the flesh. Those sins can no longer harm me. I have been set free.

It is such a shame that most will not put their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of God on the cross.

 

[us2are1]

The sins of the children of God can not overcome them since they have been covered by the blood of Jesus. But most will not believe this. As for me, I will not let those that preach otherwise put me back under the bondage of my sins of the flesh. Those sins can no longer harm me. I have been set free.

It is such a shame that most will not put their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the work of God on the cross.

Your faith is suposed to be in the power of God. Not in the Lies of man. If you come weilding the power of God as a witness to you then you do not need to go anywhere. You are already standing upright in heaven. Do you not know, by our Lord's example that death can not harm you? The flesh profits nothing it is the Spirit that is God that gives life.

John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 6
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.

1 Corinthians 2
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

 

[Jake]

There is not a pre-trib rapture, it's pleasing to the flesh and therefore people have embraced it and called it bibical. It's dangerous because people are not preparing for what is coming, we are mistaken if we believe all the knowledge in the world will prepare us (I am not saying knowledge is not important). What I am saying is what will save us through the tribulation is faith, we know the Lord will protect His Bride in the wilderness. Very much like the Israelites in their wilderness, we too will be faced with living without our daily accommodations that our society has become accustomed to.

The tribulation is for the perfecting of the Saints. If we are not prepared, how will we bear fruit under circumstances that none of us have ever experienced or seen? So as the ones who had enough oil, we should, too!

 

[veteran]

Per Dave McPhearson's book The Incredible Coverup, documenting the 1830's origin of the Pre-trib Rapture theory, he included a reference from Christian historian Sandeen commenting on John Darby's 1800's Church having Illuminati members in that Church, and how they were quoting hap-hazardly from Scripture to cause possible confusion about the timing of Christ's second coming. That suggests the origin of the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine has links to mystical secret societies like the Illuminati order.

 

[RichardBurger]

Per Dave McPhearson's book The Incredible Coverup, documenting the 1830's origin of the Pre-trib Rapture theory, he included a reference from Christian historian Sandeen commenting on John Darby's 1800's Church having Illuminati members in that Church, and how they were quoting hap-hazardly from Scripture to cause possible confusion about the timing of Christ's second coming. That suggests the origin of the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine has links to mystical secret societies like the Illuminati order.

You are just starting a rumor (gossip) that you can not prove.

Per Dave McPhearson's book The Incredible Coverup, documenting the 1830's origin of the Pre-trib Rapture theory, he included a reference from Christian historian Sandeen commenting on John Darby's 1800's Church having Illuminati members in that Church, and how they were quoting hap-hazardly from Scripture to cause possible confusion about the timing of Christ's second coming. That suggests the origin of the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine has links to mystical secret societies like the Illuminati order.

If you are a protestant then your church started during the 1500's with Martin Luther.

 

[veteran]

What the historian Sandeen said about Illuminati members existing in John Darby's church in 1830's Britain is not a lie. (for those interested, see Dave MacPherson's reference in The Incredible Cover-Up where he documented the history and origins of the Pre-trib Secret Rapture theory from 1800's Britain).

Pretty obvious the Pre-trib Secret Rapture theory would originate with groups like the Illuminati, since they represent pagan occultists who serve the devil, and that doctrine is designed to lead the deceived straight to bowing to the coming Antichrist-false messiah who comes first.

 

[Jake]

Darby started this doctrine and it was popularized by the series Left Behind, if you talk to some people who have read this book, they treat it as non-fiction, some people treat it as scripture itself. This heresy is ONLY found in the US and Canada - due in a huge part because of that series.

This heresy speaks of one anti-christ who is to come, but what the scripture has stated about the anti-christ is, it is here already, it's a spirit that has already permeated the people and the world systems. It deceives people into believing things like - the pre-trib rapture.

 

[veteran]

Darby started this doctrine and it was popularized by the series Left Behind, if you talk to some people who have read this book, they treat it as non-fiction, some people treat it as scripture itself. This heresy is ONLY found in the US and Canada - due in a huge part because of that series.

This heresy speaks of one anti-christ who is to come, but what the scripture has stated about the anti-christ is, it is here already, it's a spirit that has already permeated the people and the world systems. It deceives people into believing things like - the pre-trib rapture.

The John Scripture about the subject of the "antichrist" does not stand alone. It's the subject of the coming pseudo-Christ which Jesus warned us of in Matt.24, and that Paul warned us of in 2 Thess.2. Paul even mentions the subject of the "mystery of iniquity" already being at work in 2 Thess.2, which is the subject of the "spirit of antichrist" that you're talking about. The many antichrist's represent that "mystery of iniquity", but the antichrist represents the devil himself, the coming pseudo-Christ.

 

[Jake]

The John Scripture about the subject of the "antichrist" does not stand alone. It's the subject of the coming pseudo-Christ which Jesus warned us of in Matt.24, and that Paul warned us of in 2 Thess.2. Paul even mentions the subject of the "mystery of iniquity" already being at work in 2 Thess.2, which is the subject of the "spirit of antichrist" that you're talking about. The many antichrist's represent that "mystery of iniquity", but the antichrist represents the devil himself, the coming pseudo-Christ.

Would you agree the terms "son of perdition" and the "man of sin" are interchangeable? Judas was also referred to as the "son of perdition", so we know there is more than one. The "man" referred to as sitting in the temple of God, the way I see it, is not singular, it is a collection of people, perhap priests or pastors or bishops. Some of these have already placed themselves above God, even rewritten the Word for themselves. What better way for Satan to deceive us, by infiltrating the congregations already. While we're watching for one man to enter some sort of temple (there isn't one, we are the temple), the spirit of the anti-christ is doing exactly what the Word tells us this "man" will do.

 

[JLB]

You are just starting a rumor (gossip) that you can not prove.



If you are a protestant then your church started during the 1500's with Martin Luther.

Protestant a made up name started by the false church of Catholicism.

 

[veteran]

Would you agree the terms "son of perdition" and the "man of sin" are interchangeable?

The "son of perdition" has a specific meaning, and points to the devil. So does the "man of sin" marker, for the devil sinned from the beginning according to Apostle John.

Judas was also referred to as the "son of perdition", so we know there is more than one.

Our Lord Jesus called Judas "a devil" in John 6:70, so there again, that "son of perdition" title is a pointer to the devil. It is applied to Judas as one of the devil's servants, like ownership. The reason why the false one Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2 will not be another just like Judas is because what that false one is to do, no human can... do. But the devil himself can, just as he did that very sin in trying to be God at his original rebellion.

The "man" referred to as sitting in the temple of God, the way I see it, is not singular, it is a collection of people, perhap priests or pastors or bishops.

The 2 Thess.2:3-4 Scripture is about a singular entity because of how it is written in the 'singular' tense.

What you're talking about is a tradition of men started from the 1 John 2:18 verse. Fact is, those who started that traditiion don't have a clue as to what the "mystery of iniquity" is, nor the "many antichrists" in relation to it. Their doctrine is to get you away from seeing that act of 2 Thess.2:3-4 in connection to Satan's original sin against God in the beginning, and the coming of the pseudo-Christ which our Lord Jesus warned His elect about in Matt.24, which men's traditions also have very little clue about.

Some of these have already placed themselves above God, even rewritten the Word for themselves. What better way for Satan to deceive us, by infiltrating the congregations already. While we're watching for one man to enter some sort of temple (there isn't one, we are the temple), the spirit of the anti-christ is doing exactly what the Word tells us this "man" will do.

What better way for Satan to try and deceive us? There is a better way than that; you're just not aware of it, yet.

It's the "mystery of iniquity" that is doing that infiltration you speak of. And that's about the 'spirit of antichrist', meaning... the spirit of the Antichrist, the devil himself. Is the devil still a distinctly separate entity from that? Yep! If you disagreed then it would mean you don't really believe the devil exists, which would be contrary to what's written in God's Holy Writ.

 

[Jake]

The "son of perdition" has a specific meaning, and points to the devil. So does the "man of sin" marker, for the devil sinned from the beginning according to Apostle John.




Our Lord Jesus called Judas "a devil" in John 6:70, so there again, that "son of perdition" title is a pointer to the devil. It is applied to Judas as one of the devil's servants, like ownership. The reason why the false one Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2 will not be another just like Judas is because what that false one is to do, no human can... do. But the devil himself can, just as he did that very sin in trying to be God at his original rebellion.




The 2 Thess.2:3-4 Scripture is about a singular entity because of how it is written in the 'singular' tense.

What you're talking about is a tradition of men started from the 1 John 2:18 verse. Fact is, those who started that traditiion don't have a clue as to what the "mystery of iniquity" is, nor the "many antichrists" in relation to it. Their doctrine is to get you away from seeing that act of 2 Thess.2:3-4 in connection to Satan's original sin against God in the beginning, and the coming of the pseudo-Christ which our Lord Jesus warned His elect about in Matt.24, which men's traditions also have very little clue about.




What better way for Satan to try and deceive us? There is a better way than that; you're just not aware of it, yet.

It's the "mystery of iniquity" that is doing that infiltration you speak of. And that's about the 'spirit of antichrist', meaning... the spirit of the Antichrist, the devil himself. Is the devil still a distinctly separate entity from that? Yep! If you disagreed then it would mean you don't really believe the devil exists, which would be contrary to what's written in God's Holy Writ.

I do believe satan exists. The reason I believe there is more than one "man" is because of the word used in the original greek in 2 Thess which is "anthropos", which is a generic term for mankind, people, including male and female. This is the reason I believe what I do, it is not because of any particular doctrine.

 

[JLB]

Jake wrote -

The "man" referred to as sitting in the temple of God, the way I see it, is not singular, it is a collection of people, perhap priests or pastors or bishops. Some of these have already placed themselves above God, even rewritten the Word for themselves. What better way for Satan to deceive us, by infiltrating the congregations already. While we're watching for one man to enter some sort of temple (there isn't one, we are the temple), the spirit of the anti-christ is doing exactly what the Word tells us this "man" will do.

While I do agree that Satan use's priests or pastors or bishops, leadership as it were, to keep congregations in deception.

You are still missing a basic foundational concept concerning the last days, specifically the last seven years.

The last seven years, AKA Daniel's 70th week is a time period that is specifically ear-marked for the Jews [ I use that word in it's broadest sense].

Please notice the language - Daniel 9:24

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.


This has EVERYTHING to do with a temple.

There are many more passages of scripture that pertain to a temple as well as sacrifices linked to the last days, please be aware.


Thanks, JLB

 

[Jake]

Jake wrote -

The "man" referred to as sitting in the temple of God, the way I see it, is not singular, it is a collection of people, perhap priests or pastors or bishops. Some of these have already placed themselves above God, even rewritten the Word for themselves. What better way for Satan to deceive us, by infiltrating the congregations already. While we're watching for one man to enter some sort of temple (there isn't one, we are the temple), the spirit of the anti-christ is doing exactly what the Word tells us this "man" will do.

While I do agree that Satan use's priests or pastors or bishops, leadership as it were, to keep congregations in deception.

You are still missing a basic foundational concept concerning the last days, specifically the last seven years.

The last seven years, AKA Daniel's 70th week is a time period that is specifically ear-marked for the Jews [ I use that word in it's broadest sense].

Please notice the language - Daniel 9:24

24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.


This has EVERYTHING to do with a temple.

There are many more passages of scripture that pertain to a temple as well as sacrifices linked to the last days, please be aware.


Thanks, JLB

Yes, it does, but not a physical temple. Everything now is spiritual. Destroy this temple and I will raise it in 3 days, Jesus calls Himself a temple. Do you not know you are the temple of God - God tells us we are His temple. Hebrews tells us the one sacrifice that would "make perfect" would cease all other sacrifices, and we know that Christ is that one sacrifice. Any other animal sacrifice would be an offense to Him. If it is as it says in Hebrew, the purpose for a 3rd physical temple is non-existent.
Thanks, Jake