Charismatic Bible Studies #2

[marks]

The empathy is often misjudged as being linked to liberalism on the forum, which is kind of sad.

I've noticed that too. You, and some others, remind me of a fellow I used to listen to on the radio, he had a call in show, Rich Bueller, "Talk from the Heart". Christian show. He'd have some callers from time to time who would go on and on about disjointed ideas bordering on dementia, then he'd reach past all that to something he saw in their heart, and was soon engaging them in deep and meaningful discussion.

It really is a gift!

Much love!

 

[Rita]

I've noticed that too. You, and some others, remind me of a fellow I used to listen to on the radio, he had a call in show, Rich Bueller, "Talk from the Heart". Christian show. He'd have some callers from time to time who would go on and on about disjointed ideas bordering on dementia, then he'd reach past all that to something he saw in their heart, and was soon engaging them in deep and meaningful discussion.

It really is a gift!

Much love!

Not sure I am at that level Mark, Rich sounds amazing ........

 

[Hidden In Him]

Love that @marks and it reminded me of our friend Tony after he got filled with the Holy Spirit at a large Christian gathering in Manchester. He was so full of the joy of the Holy Spirit that he drove through every red light all the way home.

Talk about being "free in Christ," LoL!

Through ten years I allowed the Holy Spirit to take me on journeys trough my past and deal with all the pain I had buried. He would allow things to act as triggers to the memories and buried emotions. At the time I had a picture of a house with many rooms, each room was gradually emptied and cleared. Then, nearing the end of that process I had the image of a large trunk , bound with chains, that was stored in the basement. I came to realise that it was time to deal with the stuff I had really locked away. Eventually I was able to leave so much at the cross, the next day the mental mind games that I had for over 30 years were gone.

Excellent imagery. Glorious!

These ARE dramatic things to me.

Can you imagine, sitting down for a normal forum day of, well, you know what it's like, when suddenly, God Himself has written a reply to you? Through the fingers of someone who just knew what to write? And you read it, and know, God spoke to you!

To be one of the outcast, rejected, and to suddenly know you are loved? These are big to me.

There is such a tendency, I think, to see some of the gifts as bigger or better or more powerful.

This is a good point. One of the promises of God regrading moving in the Spirit is that HE would give us the words to speak when we were witnessing to His Sonship before men. I think it should apply in all our situations honestly. As Paul said, "speaking only that which ministers grace to the hearer," and that is truly only done when He speaks and writes through us.

 

[marks]

Not sure I am at that level Mark, Rich sounds amazing ........

He's with the Lord now, but I sure loved listening to him!

Much love!

 

[Rita]

He's with the Lord now, but I sure loved listening to him!

Much love!

His legacy lives on ....it’s nice that he is remembered beyond his life..

 

[Paul Christensen]

Praise God. People go off on the whole "holy laughter" thing because there have been instances where it was being fabricated and faked and caught on film, but I do believe the real thing exists. When the Spirit of God takes over a congregation they become one together in the Spirit, and whatever the Spirit is communicating to the church at that point gets communicated to all of them at the same time.

I haven't responded to this thread myself yet, just sort of letting it lay dormant until I can get to writing some responses. But thanks for getting the ball rolling.

1 Peter 1:8 validates genuine holy laughter:
"Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not even see Him now, you believe and trust in Him and you greatly rejoice and delight with inexpressible and glorious joy"

It is sadly true that holy laughter can be faked and be motivated by the flesh.

But when there is joy in worshiping the Lord, it is self controlled. Believers get so filled with the joy of the Lord they express it by laughter, but it is self-controlled and can stop at any time; but they are having so much pleasure in expressing their joy they don't want to. There is a big difference between laughing because of a great joy within, and out of control forced and compulsive laughing because it is the thing to do.

I remember being in a small service where we started with the opening song, and then began with praise to the Lord. Then we were overcome with joy and started laughing. Every time it subsided and we wanted to get on with the service, we were overcome with joy again. We spent most of the time that Sunday morning just laughing. It was a memorable service and we all experienced the love and joy of the Lord that day. But it didn't happen again like that, and it shouldn't have, because a move of the Spirit like that is special, and if people tried to do it every Sunday, it would lose that special and holy nature.

My old pastor in 1970 told me the story of a visiting preacher who started to preach when he began to laugh, and had to sit down. Then there was a wave of glory over the congregation and the presence of the Holy Spirit became very intense with some amazing things that happened in the lives of the people there. The pastor asked the visiting speaker afterwards why he could not preach, and the answer was that the Lord told him, "Get out of my way so I can move!"

That is quite different to what we see on Youtube in those congregations where there is the uncontrolled pointless laughter. Nothing happens among the people that changes their lives for God. All it appears to be is a "Hallelujah hootenany" instead of a real move of the Spirit that brings repentance, hunger for holiness, increased faith in Christ and a ready ear to hear God's Word.

My view is, if laughing makes us holy, then let's laugh!!!

 

[Hidden In Him]

But it didn't happen again like that, and it shouldn't have, because a move of the Spirit like that is special, and if people tried to do it every Sunday, it would lose that special and holy nature.

Excellent post, and we shouldn't try to duplicate it. That's the move of a religious leader who sees something "work," and then tries to manufacture it again. Only it never "works," LoL.

My old pastor in 1970 told me the story of a visiting preacher who started to preach when he began to laugh, and had to sit down. Then there was a wave of glory over the congregation and the presence of the Holy Spirit became very intense with some amazing things that happened in the lives of the people there. The pastor asked the visiting speaker afterwards why he could not preach, and the answer was that the Lord told him, "Get out of my way so I can move!"

I think it would make me chuckle if the Lord told me that, too. Kinda like, "Ok people. Here it comes," LoL. And just let the Lord take over.

 

[marks]

This is a good point. One of the promises of God regrading moving in the Spirit is that HE would give us the words to speak when we were witnessing to His Sonship before men. I think it should apply in all our situations honestly. As Paul said, "speaking only that which ministers grace to the hearer," and that is truly only done when He speaks and writes through us.

Yes - all of our situations, every last little one. Only that which expresses our faith through love, in all moments of our lives, that to me is the upward call, to live Christ. And it happens in the power of the Holy Spirit conforming me to Christ. That 'being conformed to Christ', I'd likewise call it 'the fruit of the Spirit', that is, the fruit which the Holy Spirit, not me, produces. Not my fruit. Jesus said of the false prophets you shall know them by their fruit. The Holy Spirit's fruit is our being made like Jesus.

In being like Jesus, we minister to each other, in whatever way God ordains, great or small, glamorous or humble. I learned an important lesson one night doing the dishes by the power of the Holy Spirit, and what that meant.

Much love!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Excellent post, and we shouldn't try to duplicate it. That's the move of a religious leader who sees something "work," and then tries to manufacture it again. Only it never "works," LoL.


I think it would make me chuckle if the Lord told me that, too. Kinda like, "Ok people. Here it comes," LoL. And just let the Lord take over.

The trouble with laughter is that it is infectious. What happens in many cases is that someone will deliberately start up laughing in the flesh, and because he is laughing, others will start laughing in response. Although the laughter is forced by the person who started it, the resulting laughter from others may be genuine laughter - sort of like a hypnotic suggestion.

It is the type of laughter that results from seeing someone coming a cropper on AFV. Slapstick movies make us laugh. Hearing someone break wind causes laughter. A really funny joke can spark a real belly laugh. But all this is of the flesh - not necessarily wrong in the right environment.

But true holy laughter comes from the joy of the Lord bubbling up from inside. When I am assisting someone to receive the gift of tongues and I hear their beautiful, articulate, expressive language for the first time, I start chuckling with joy. It is the joy of the Lord hearing someone being released in the Spirit.

I was in the ministry team at a meeting, and as people were released in the Spirit through prayer, I would giggle and chuckle. Someone asked the leader why it seemed to amuse me so. He said, "He tends to get joyful when the Holy Spirit is around!"

I watched a movie called "Up Periscope" starring Kelsey Grammar. When he tricked the opposing ships during a naval exercise by putting his submarine between the two propellors of a large container ship and sneaked past the ships into the harbour, he cried out: "I love this job!"

In the same way, when I assist someone to get a release in the Spirit speaking in tongues, or is released from demon influence, I get full of joy and want to say, "I love this ministry!"

When I say that people seeking sensory experiences will find that the devil is always around to give them one, I am not talking about the joy, peace, feelings of love, compassion, godly sorrow about personal failure or righteous anger at harmful spiritual abuse and persecution of others. In fact, the vast majority of Charismatics have more of these godly emotions and feelings than the cold, academic-minded, emotionless religiosity of anti-Charismatics.

When I speak of the type of sensory experiences that the devil loves to give people are the jerking, shaking, hollow laughter, falling down, rolling around on the floor that we see on the Youtube videos of the lunatic fringe, who are actually a small minority of the Charismatic movement.

Now, I am not saying that shaking, and falling are necessarily counterfeit, but do these strengthen faith in Christ and cause the person to know that they are in the glory of the presence of the Holy Spirit, and therefore are experiencing a life-changing event? People can shake under the power of conviction of sin, and others become so peaceful and relaxed in the Spirit that they cannot stay on their feet - especially if they have experienced a release from bondage, or the baptism with the Spirit.

But doing these things every Sunday because it is "what we do here" is more likely to be a counterfeit than the real thing.

 

[theQuestioneer]

Churchianity has done a Splendid job of Deceiving the masses.
But at least they appear to be happy.
They won't be when Christ appears.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes - all of our situations, every last little one. Only that which expresses our faith through love, in all moments of our lives, that to me is the upward call, to live Christ. And it happens in the power of the Holy Spirit conforming me to Christ. That 'being conformed to Christ', I'd likewise call it 'the fruit of the Spirit', that is, the fruit which the Holy Spirit, not me, produces. Not my fruit. Jesus said of the false prophets you shall know them by their fruit. The Holy Spirit's fruit is our being made like Jesus.

In being like Jesus, we minister to each other, in whatever way God ordains, great or small, glamorous or humble. I learned an important lesson one night doing the dishes by the power of the Holy Spirit, and what that meant.

Much love!

In the years I have been attending church meetings and conferences I have been able to learn the difference between when the Holy Spirit is active and when He isn't.

I have been to all-day conferences where I have enjoyed and drank in the teaching and activities and been disappointed when the day has ended.

I have been to church services where I have been bored to tears and couldn't wait until the service was over so I could go and have the cup of coffee and cookies afterward.

I have listened to preachers talking for nearly an hour, and loved every word and felt my faith strengthened. And heard other preachers who were so boring I kept a note on how many pages of notes they had left before they would finish. With some of the boring preachers, I have felt drowsy, and it was a good thing sometimes that I was sitting behind someone wider than me so I could nod off without the preacher seeing me!

Some of the boring sermons could not be faulted for their Scriptural accuracy, but there was no spirit in them to keep me attentive and awake. I can understand why unconverted people find themselves in a boring service listening to a boring sermon and decided not to come back and repeat the experience.

I had the same experience in a Charismatic church where it was obvious that the preacher had planned his sermon by just going through the concordance to support his topic. I found an inward groaning as I had to sit through 45 minutes of those sermons.

And yet I was in another service of 400 people where it seemed that there was just the preacher and me, and the sermon was directed right at me. I certainly didn't go to sleep in those ones!

In a Pentecostal service, where the pastor went around whispering in peoples' ears "Jesus is here", inducing people to shake and fall down, I got so spooked that I wanted to get out of there as soon as possible! It shows that even in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches the Holy Spirit may not be present in the services.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In being like Jesus, we minister to each other, in whatever way God ordains, great or small, glamorous or humble. I learned an important lesson one night doing the dishes by the power of the Holy Spirit, and what that meant.

Yes, in whatever way He ordains is a great way to put it. Many (not you, but others) seem to think He will never chastise, but a good look at how He occasionally addressed the Pharisees tells you differently. Sometimes the Lord will speak a stern rebuke, albeit in love, hoping to correct not condemn.

The trouble with laughter is that it is infectious. What happens in many cases is that someone will deliberately start up laughing in the flesh, and because he is laughing, others will start laughing in response. Although the laughter is forced by the person who started it, the resulting laughter from others may be genuine laughter - sort of like a hypnotic suggestion.

I've read the testimonies of a couple different ex-pastors who departed from the faith and became atheist because they knew very well the techniques they were using relied very heavily on the power of suggestion. Very sad.

In fact, the vast majority of Charismatics have more of these godly emotions and feelings than the cold, academic-minded, emotionless religiosity of anti-Charismatics.

Yes, and the real need is for academics who are Spirit-filled. That's what I think the Charismatic church needs more than anything right now, although there are plenty of good examples.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes, in whatever way He ordains is a great way to put it. Many (not you, but others) seem to think He will never chastise, but a good look at how He occasionally addressed the Pharisees tells you differently. Sometimes the Lord will speak a stern rebuke, albeit in love, hoping to correct not condemn.


I've read the testimonies of a couple different ex-pastors who departed from the faith and became atheist because they knew very well the techniques they were using relied very heavily on the power of suggestion. Very sad.


Yes, and the real need is for academics who are Spirit-filled. That's what I think the Charismatic church needs more than anything right now, although there are plenty of good examples.

I remember the only time in my life when God told me off was when as a young believer I tried to cast a demon out of someone and it went all wrong and the intervention ended up being a real mess and a disaster and probably nearly drove the person away from the faith. When I debriefed with the Lord afterward, He said, "Don't you ever, ever, do that again unless you get my direct permission!!!"

Although, later in my Christian life I researched both the healing ministry and spiritual warfare by going to my favourite Christian second hand bookshop and buying every book I could on both topics, the Lord allowed me to participate in the healing ministry with some amazing results, but He never opened any doors for the deliverance ministry. In fact, He kept that door firmly shut!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I remember the only time in my life when God told me off was when as a young believer I tried to cast a demon out of someone and it went all wrong and the intervention ended up being a real mess and a disaster and probably nearly drove the person away from the faith. When I debriefed with the Lord afterward, He said, "Don't you ever, ever, do that again unless you get my direct permission!!!"

Although, later in my Christian life I researched both the healing ministry and spiritual warfare by going to my favourite Christian second hand bookshop and buying every book I could on both topics, the Lord allowed me to participate in the healing ministry with some amazing results, but He never opened any doors for the deliverance ministry. In fact, He kept that door firmly shut!

Never been a deliverance guy myself either. I've participated in ministries where the pastor engaged in it, but I never did personally.

I did study it quite a bit, though. Anything to do with the war between God and Satan in the spirit world always drew my interest, especially when I first got saved.

 

[Mayflower]

II. What is the Holy Spirit’s work? What Does He Do? (Part 1) —

The question for this study is this: How has the Spirit of God worked in your life in any (or all) of the ways below?

A. He purifies believers.

Matthew 3:11-12 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

• Greek expert D.A. Carson says the grammatical construction “suggests a unified concept, Spirit-fire or the like” (Expositor’s Bible Commentary on Matthew, p. 105). Carson adds that “there are good reasons for taking ‘fire’ as a purifying agent along with the Holy Spirit” (105).

B. He comes upon believers for certain tasks.

Luke 1:15-17, 67 …[John] will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah… [67] and his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied.

• The great prophet John the Baptist was empowered for His ministry by the infilling of the Holy Spirit. By the Spirit’s enablement John turned many Israelites back to the Lord. And He served as the contemporary prophet announcing the coming of the Lord Jesus to earth.

• John’s father Zechariah, when “filled with the Spirit,” began to prophesy a mighty message about the coming Savior and John’s prophetic introduction of Him.

C. He is our Comforter, Counselor, Helper, Advocate.

John 14:16-17a And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to help you and be with you forever — the Spirit of truth (NIV).

• Some other translations: “another Helper (NASB) … another Counselor (RSV) … another Comforter (The Amplified reads, "Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby").

D. He will teach us, and give us recall of what we have learned.

John 14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

• God gives us human teachers of His word (Ephesians 4:11). But the ultimate, infallible Teacher is the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27). He inspired the Scriptures (2 Peter 1:20-21), and therefore He is the One perfectly qualified to teach us their meaning.

• Not only does the Spirit teach us the things of God, He also gives us recall of these things when we need them. He will “bring to our remembrance” the things we have learned about the Lord.

E. He will show the future.

John 16:13, KJV …when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth … and He will show you things to come.

• He has shown us things to come in the hundreds of predictive prophecies in the Scriptures. And as He deems it to be needed, He gives to individual believers specific guidance and insight for their own futures.

I have a lot to catch up on, as it is my works days, but I can start with the question. Holy Spirit has worked in my life in all of these ways. He has definitely been purifying me. My thoughtlife is the biggest. Sort of like kitty litter anxieties and other bad thinking. But God's Word has been transforming my mind as I have been renewing myself in the Word and praying/recognizing things. Holy Spirit has guided me in His giftings and purposes He has for me in His kingdom. For anyone here who has read any of my testimony, He has definitely been my Comforter/Counselor/Helper/Advocate. He brings verses to mind and things to my mind I need quite often. And I believe He has shown me the future some in dreams... But His Word is the surest confidence of all of that, no matter the specifics!!!!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I have a lot to catch up on, as it is my works days, but I can start with the question. Holy Spirit has worked in my life in all of these ways. He has definitely been purifying me. My thoughtlife is the biggest. Sort of like kitty litter anxieties and other bad thinking.

The kitty litter thing again?

Well, here's to spiritual growth. If you have to have a dirty litter box filled with anxieties, make sure the enemy pays for it.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

I have a lot to catch up on, as it is my works days, but I can start with the question. Holy Spirit has worked in my life in all of these ways. He has definitely been purifying me. My thoughtlife is the biggest. Sort of like kitty litter anxieties and other bad thinking. But God's Word has been transforming my mind as I have been renewing myself in the Word and praying/recognizing things. Holy Spirit has guided me in His giftings and purposes He has for me in His kingdom. For anyone here who has read any of my testimony, He has definitely been my Comforter/Counselor/Helper/Advocate. He brings verses to mind and things to my mind I need quite often. And I believe He has shown me the future some in dreams... But His Word is the surest confidence of all of that, no matter the specifics!!!!

I hope you feel better soon! ^prayed!

 

[LILAC]

I remember the only time in my life when God told me off was when as a young believer I tried to cast a demon out of someone and it went all wrong and the intervention ended up being a real mess and a disaster and probably nearly drove the person away from the faith. When I debriefed with the Lord afterward, He said, "Don't you ever, ever, do that again unless you get my direct permission!!!"

Although, later in my Christian life I researched both the healing ministry and spiritual warfare by going to my favourite Christian second hand bookshop and buying every book I could on both topics, the Lord allowed me to participate in the healing ministry with some amazing results, but He never opened any doors for the deliverance ministry. In fact, He kept that door firmly shut!

I thought I was supposed to be in deliverance ministry. Turns out it was a test. I have an autistic son and I thought I could bring him to a deliverance conference and have him be healed. Then I was looking into hypnosis by the Spirit of the Lord. I finally saw the resemblance. This deliverance stuff went on for about 15 months. Nothing worked. He wasn't healed. All I was ever told was "keep going until something happens!" I'll tell you this. He got a little bit better once I stopped what I was doing. He gets nervous when I openly speak about Biblical truths. He will hide himself in the bathroom when I do this. The text that gets him worked up is Mark chapter 9, interestingly enough. As a mom, I'm not sure what to do or what the next step might be. We are not involved in any church and were recently revoked of the membership we did have at our last church, which is fine by us. They're steering people in the wrong direction anyway.

So... I will say, even though he's autistic, he has the fruits of the Spirit. He rarely gets very angry. He loves to help out. He calls old people young... he sees the good in little things that we take for granted. Some days when I ask him if he's ready to see Jesus his face lights up. On other days, he gets grumbly. All in all, I can't complain about him as a person. He just does not have a "typical" mindset, if you will. It might be more of a ME issue than anything else.

 

[Hidden In Him]

But His Word is the surest confidence of all of that, no matter the specifics!!!!

I was goofing around a little with my previous response, but I fully agree with your post.

You see, He uses signs and wonders to confirm His word. If there is not a focus on the word, you get the cart before the horse and things get all messed up. So I'm delighted to be back in the word primarily myself these days. Major fun.

 

[Mayflower]

The kitty litter thing again?

Well, here's to spiritual growth. If you have to have a dirty litter box filled with anxieties, make sure the enemy pays for it.

Kitty litter dream. Not the nicest dream to happen as a Christian, but that was a year ago. LOL.