Charles Spurgeon's Sanity Litmus Test (are you insane?)

[Marymog]

Mary,
What you ask is rather complicated for me.
If I have a problem with a friend, I go directly to them.
If it's not a friend, I just keep away from the person.
If I have to work with them (which has happend and in a church setting) then I'm just as nice as I could be and still keep away.
If the problem includes others, then we should go to the head of our church. Maybe the priest, maybe the pastor, whoever is the head of that particular local church.

That person is in charge of everyone who goes there and should be able to handle any personal problems that come up.

It almost sounds like you don't have a church but I doubt that.
....do you? You certainly cannot go to the Church. As you said, WHO would you go to??!

I'm surprised you've never heard of this before.

Hi GG,

Let's say my "problem" with my friend is that we disagree on abortion or gay marriage or woman as pastors or the Real Presence or baptism saves/doesn't save...pick your poison!!

She goes to her church priest/pastor and they tell her 'a baby isn't alive until it comes out of the womb therefor abortion is not murder'.

My priest/pastor tells me 'scripture is very clear, abortion is murder'.

Scriputure says if we refuse to listen to the church then we are to be treated as a Gentile and a tax collector (Matthew 18:17). 1Timothy3 tells us how to behave in the the church of the living God and that the Church is the pillar and buttress of the truth.

Who is the gentile/tax collector in my aforementioned scenario? Me or my friend? Who's Church is the pillar/buttruss of The Truth? Hers or mine?

IHS...Mary

 

[Marymog]

then you gotta wonder why the verse would even be relevant back then, i guess?
the point being
"what difference is this that you have?
Wouldn't you rather be cheated?"

although even that wouldn't cover every eventuality, i guess

Hi bbyrd,

Let's pretend that the difference is I say abortion is murder, she says it isn't.

Which Church do we go to settle this difference?

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi bbyrd,

Let's pretend that the difference is I say abortion is murder, she says it isn't.

Which Church do we go to settle this difference?

Mary

there is nothing to settle, as would be seen if the "difference" were stated as a complaint against someone else. So then, if your "complaint" is that she believes differently than you do? Go your own way, and let her go hers. Problem solved.

 

[KBCid]

LOL
Because not everybody is a Christian!
When Christianity was new, they lived as a family.
One would never sue someone in their own family.
Today, this has changed.

How would it be different for a Christian either then or now...
We should still be living as a family. We should still preferencially take losses in this world as a gain in the one to come. We should look for protection from God alone and we should gladly give our lives if God allows another to take it.
In the end we are in this world to reflect God for their purposes and when that time is finished then we should be looking forward to the kingdom to come as this should be our desire right?

 

[Marymog]

there is nothing to settle, as would be seen if the "difference" were stated as a complaint against someone else. So then, if your "complaint" is that she believes differently than you do? Go your own way, and let her go hers. Problem solved.

The complaint is not that she believes different than I. The complaint is she is condoning murder.

The question is who's church settles this difference? The one who's doctrine teaches that abortion is murder OR the church that teaches abortion is not murder?

For you see the "difference" is not between her and me. It is between the two opposing doctrines of our respective churches. Is it murder or is it not.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

The complaint is not that she believes different than I. The complaint is she is condoning murder.

is she coming to your house, banging on your door in the middle of the night with this? Is she insisting that you condone abortion also? Is she trying to kill your fetus? Then what? Is this (theoretical) person a member of your congregation? What business it that of yours, iow?

The question is who's church settles this difference?

wait, you are not even in the same congregation?

For you see the "difference" is not between her and me. It is between the two opposing doctrines of our respective churches. Is it murder or is it not.

so then the "problem" becomes revealed as one of perception, and "you reap what you sow" is not being trusted, seems to me. My stints at Catholic Charities dealing with such women assures me that they surely do reap from what they have sewn, and trust me, these ladies would not care even if you flipped and suddenly started agreeing with their doctrine; it would not fix the hole they have made, or rather made worse.

 

[Stranger]

The word "hate" does not necessarily mean to despise intensely. In the original language of the writing of the OT hate would mean to love less.[/QUOTE]

That is absolutely ridiculous. 'Hate' means to love less? How silly. That is an old womans theology. Such teaching is why we have so called 'hate' laws today. Hate means hate. There is nothing wrong with hating the things God hates. And God hates.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

is she coming to your house, banging on your door in the middle of the night with this? Is she insisting that you condone abortion also? Is she trying to kill your fetus? Then what? Is this (theoretical) person a member of your congregation? What business it that of yours, iow?

wait, you are not even in the same congregation?
so then the "problem" becomes revealed as one of perception, and "you reap what you sow" is not being trusted, seems to me. My stints at Catholic Charities dealing with such women assures me that they surely do reap from what they have sewn, and trust me, these ladies would not care even if you flipped and suddenly started agreeing with their doctrine; it would not fix the hole they have made, or rather made worse.

Each individual congregation gets to decide if abortion is murder or not?

Mary

 

[Helen]

Who is the gentile/tax collector in my aforementioned scenario? Me or my friend? Who's Church is the pillar/buttruss of The Truth? Hers or mine?

Sorry Mary...I am just jumping into your convo here.
My only comment on this is that you speak of "who's Church"....when you really are saying "Who's denomination, " Or who's religion...

In God's eyes there is only one Church. Who, in God's eyes are His believing children...red, yellow, black, white. jew , gentile, bond or free...He sees none of that. We are one In Him.

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Just had to mention that...sorry ...Helen

 

[bbyrd009]

Each individual congregation gets to decide if abortion is murder or not?

Mary

ha, if you think you are of one mind with your congregation on the matter, think again imo.
Each individual gets to decide this, and it is them who will reap what they sow.
Or i mean you can try to be the morals police if you want, see how that goes, first thing i would outlaw would be praying to Mary, hows that work for you? The point being where does that end?

 

[bbyrd009]

In God's eyes there is only one Church. Who in God's eyes are His believing children...red, yellow, black, white. jew , gentile, bond or free...He sees none of that. We are one In Him.
Just had to mention that...sorry ...Helen

this is made plain in the Bible, many different ways, but Catholics do not agree, yet they consider themselves Christian, why or why they might even want to i am still not quite clear on, but suffice it to say that most Catholics consider themselves Christian, some kind of way.

i go with "you will know them by their fruit," and so i don't ask ppls affiliation any more myself. I look around on a Tuesday morning, cold, and see that the Catholic church is the only one open and serving destitute ppl. i don't care even a little who they are praying to tbh.

 

[Marymog]

Sorry Mary...I am just jumping into your convo here.
My only comment on this is that you speak of "who's Church"....when you really are saying "Who's denomination, " Or who's religion... In God's eyes there is only one Church. Who in God's eyes are His believing children...red, yellow, black, white. jew , gentile, bond or free...He sees none of that. We are one In Him.
Just had to mention that...sorry ...Helen

I agree with you; there is only one Church.

A church/denomination is made up of people. Those people decide the doctrine/beliefs of their church based on how they interpret scripture.

There are denominations that teach abortion is not murder. There is a member on this website that believes slavery is ok, God is ok with it, and he uses scripture to back it up. Are you saying that God is ok with those teachings since He "sees none of that"?

Mary

 

[Helen]

Are you saying that God is ok with those teachings since He "sees none of that"?

Nop, not at all.
I was talking about God's Church. Not denominational beliefs..

 

[Marymog]

ha, if you think you are of one mind with your congregation on the matter, think again imo.
Each individual gets to decide this, and it is them who will reap what they sow.
Or i mean you can try to be the morals police if you want, see how that goes, first thing i would outlaw would be praying to Mary, hows that work for you? The point being where does that end?

I thought scripture, not me or you, would be the 'morals police" on abortion being murder or not?

My morals say it is ok to steal from the rich. I wonder if I am at "one mind" with my congregation OR scripture on that one.

You would outlaw praying to Mary but you think each individual gets to decide if abortion is murder?? Fascinating.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Nop, not at all.
I was talking about God's Church. Not denominational beliefs..

Which denomination is closer to the teachings of Gods Church?

Mary

 

[Helen]

Which denomination is closer to the teachings of Gods Church?

Mary

I believe there is "good and bad" in all of them....I don't do the denomination thing.
When a stranger asks me what denomination I am , I just answer that I am a Believing-believer.

 

[KBCid]

ha, if you think you are of one mind with your congregation on the matter, think again imo.
Each individual gets to decide this, and it is them who will reap what they sow.
Or i mean you can try to be the morals police if you want, see how that goes, first thing i would outlaw would be praying to Mary, hows that work for you? The point being where does that end?

People pray to Mary?...
I thought God was a jealous God...
Funny thing is that Christ never even asks people to pray to himself but. the Father.... in my name.

 

[Marymog]

I believe there is "good and bad" in all of them....I don't do the denomination thing. When a stranger asks me what denomination I am , I just answer that I am a Believing-believer.

Scripture says when your sister sins against you, and they think they haven't sinned against you, we are take our differences/disagreement to the Church to decide who is right. You don't have a church that you can go to?

What is the definition of a believing-believer?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Nop, not at all.

So he does see SOME of it?

Mary[/QUOTE]

 

[Richard_oti]

Yes, you have posted a lot and the easy answer would be that I'm a Christian not a Jewish person. I always repeatedly say that God has not changed.

However, some of His laws had changed.
When Jesus says You Have Heard it Said,
But I Say To You, He is about to change something.
But not because God changed, because MAN changed something of God's law and now Jesus is bringing back to how God want it.
Divorce comes to mind. Moses allowed Certificates of Divorce, but God does not.

So you are saying that which Moses wrote was not from "God" even though Deuteronomy 4:2 states that it (Deuteronomy) shall not be added unto nor diminished from. Jesus repeatedly quoted Deuteronomy as authoritative. In fact, if memory serves, Jesus quoted from Deuteronomy more than any other.

"God" gave Israel a bill of divorce (cf Jer 3:8).

Jesus didn't change anything with regard to divorce, he just made clear that which occurred by divorce. In those days, you could divorce a woman for as little as burning your toast. Was it intended from the beginning, no. Jesus made it clear, that divorce with except for cause of adultery, caused the two become adulterers if they should take another. Which Moses also made clear, that when one divorces another, should that one remarry, the first may not take them again as a spouse.

Many of the "laws" came about due to problems that had arisen earlier. Such as, don't take sisters as rival wives. Look at the trouble with Jacob, Rachel and Leah. The "laws" regarding incest, from the beginning, it was not always so.

Re your very last paragraph.
If you're going to be such a pain, re Adam and Eve, then how about YOUR version???

I have already stated it in that which I have posted.

Your post is going to have to wait till later...
And you may not like my answer.

<chuckle>