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China moves to take over Hong Kong

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Cristo Rei, May 23, 2020.

  1. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    The west has sold itself to China

    This here, ladies and gentlemen, is the direct result of world leaders turning a blind eye to China.
    Its the direct result of world leaders allowing China to get away with inhumane working conditions, child labour, suppressing religion, claiming international waters, slave labour, released viruses and many other humanitarian issues.

    We are witnessing the rise of China, the awakening of the sleeping giant
    The Chinese have sold the west the rope for it to hang itself with.





     
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    So, where can we read of this in the scriptures to be reassured that what you are claiming is true?

    So far your witness has been that of a conspiracy theorist. Lots of words but little to back it up scripturally.
     
  3. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    None of that makes any sense. U must have the wrong number. Hang up and dial again
     
  4. Scoot

    Scoot Member

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    Please take this post as humbly and genuinely the intentions with which I write it - but if I was to apply that thought generally - what should people have done pre WW2 living in Germany?

    From what i can tell, the scripture didn't contain information on Hitler and what would happen. Does that mean that there was no truth to it? Should the Jews in WW2 have not been concerned with what was happening around them during WW2 because there was nothing in scripture to back up what Hitler was doing? Or likewise Christians?

    Likewise Christians a century earlier that fled to Australia (or America) for religious freedom.

    Were these the wise ones the ones that applied Proverbs 22:3 "A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished.", and Proverbs 27:12 "A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself; The simple pass on and are punished." - and packed up and left with their family early and escaped the holocaust that was to happen when most others didn't see it until it was too late?

    Personally I have no problems with what @Christo Ray posted in the top post and appreciate some news that doesn't come from the Bias and corrupt main stream media. But I do agree that in the same aspect - I would like to know what scripture(s) we apply to them. It's one thing to have knowledge about a situation - it's another thing to know what to do with it.

    Is it Proverbs - and if so - what measures do we take? Are their other scriptures as well that we should be applying to this scenario.

    I have little doubt that China is prepping to take ground. And living in Australia - it's obvious they have their eyes on us - both via business, and as well as military with the ports they are building in the pacific. What responsibility do I have as a husband for my family? Do I ignore all this and not worry - or do I minister to my family both spiritually as well as practically?

    Is it the duty of Christians to ignore world affairs and not show interest at all? (I ask this as a genuine question in itself - I have no idea on the answer of this. On one hand I can see that we're to be the salt of the world and really appreciate those who are standing in the way resisting the evil that appears to be spreading like a cancer) - but in the same instance Jesus and his disciples seemed to completely ignore what Rome was doing at the time - as their focus was solely on the kingdom.

    If I could see that a Godly nation still stood now - should I be like the Christians that fled to Australia over a century ago, or should they not have done this because there was no scripture talking about those times?

    In one way this seems a little moot in a way because the whole world is becoming more corrupt. No single nation stands out as being righteous and heading in the right direction. I feel that I'm living in Sodom, but unlike Lot - there's no where to free to. I'd be simply going from Sodom to Gomorrah, or another Sodom.

    Personally - I am wondering if China is going to be used as God's judgement in a similar way that Babylon was used - to Judge other countries that should have known better but turned their backs on God.

    This gives me concern - but also gives me encouragement. Even though the Israelite's were taken into captivity (the wicked along with the righteous) - the righteous were still able to be used by God in an incredible way. Daniel rose in significant influence. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego stood firm and were used as a powerful witness as well.

    For me - as I see all this occurring - it points and amplifies a point. To focus even more on God. To prepare my family and myself for what might come. It gives me a greater sense of urgency which I appreciate (and desire more of), but I'm still left wondering - do I prepare only spiritually - or is there a practical application as well?

    I don't know if I'm wrong or not - but I am grateful to people who keep me appraised to world affairs outside of the Main Stream Media. (I stopped watching MSM news when I saw first hand how corrupt it was becoming and how they spun, twisted and even straight out lied more than told the truth).

    I'd be very interested to hear what you and other people think about my thoughts and questions.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This is a HARD FACT. Almost everything in Western stores has been coming from China for quite a while. Many decades ago, all manufacturing plants and well paying jobs were shipped to China through the negligence or collusion of Western politicians. Chinese nationals (who are always under the thumb of their Communist masters) were allowed to pour into Western countries by the hundreds of thousands (possibly millions). Chinese spies in the guise of students, professors, research scientists, technologists, etc. stole Western technology and secrets and shipped them to China. Just recently some of these people have been outed, but that may only be the tip of the iceberg.

    Getting back to Hong Kong (HK). Hong Kong was a British colony until 1997. It had its own culture and commerce apart from China. Britain could have refused to hand HK back to the Communist Chinese. It is doubtful that China would have gone to war with the UK. But even if they threatened war, China was hardly as strong in 1997 as it is today. Instead the Brits handed it over to those who would enslave HK. And now China has decided that HK will indeed be enslaved while the West looks on.

    The West has been fully aware of Chinese atrocities for ages, but that has not deterred Western politicians from becoming chums with China.

    The Bidens are an outstanding example of cordial *Sino-American relations*, since they were bought and paid for by the Chinese government as spelled out in Peter Schweizer's book
    Secret Empires: How the American Political Class Hides Corruption and Enriches Family and Friends.” (which has been ignored by the media). [Note: see this article for further information:
    Biden’s Alleged Financial Ties To China Overshadow His 2020 Bid]

    "The vice president [Joe Biden under Obama] is negotiating a bunch of very sensitive issues with the Chinese, including the South China Sea, trade, tech transfer, etc. Biden is criticized on that trip for basically going soft on Beijing. Shortly after they return to the U.S., Hunter Biden’s firm receives a $1 billion private equity deal from the Chinese government [via the Bank of China]. Not from an American business in China; from the Chinese government itself. It later gets increased to $1.5 billion. We have no way of knowing how much Rosemont made on the deal because there are no disclosure requirements."
     
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  6. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    In Australia we've been busting these under cover agents for a couple of years now.

    But in reality China has every right to take back Hong Kong cos its' theirs
    The deal was that Britain would return it back to the Chinese just like Portugal returned Macau back to China
    So there are no grounds to oppose them on really.

    Next will be Taiwan when its clear that America is on the decline which it will be after this covid thing
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Other than the fact that people should not be deliberately placed under tyrannical rule. Had Great Britain held a referendum in Hong Kong before the handover, those people would have voted to stay independent or under the Crown.
     
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  8. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I may take up Hong Kong in another post; but relations between Australia and China have been on my mind lately since it's been in the news.

    I doubt that for now China would be interested in taking over Australia using its military. Why? I think history shows us how hard it was for European countries to govern their colonies. It was costly in both money and lives. Following WWII, the trend was to grant colonies freedom (in theory) while retaining influence over them via banks and corporations.

    Australia is already a colony of China to a large degree, and now China is attempting to clamp down on Australia by using its economic levers. Donald Trump has made that easier for China by withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We could debate the pros and cons of that treaty. Some would say it benefited all the countries; others would say there were winners and losers. What seems more important to me is that democracies in the Pacific Area were presentig a unified front against the growing power of China. Trump thought he could do better for the US by withdrawing and cutting his own deal with China. I disagree with that approach since it has place our allies at a disadvantage. Canada had to go up against China without the backing of the US; and now Australia is in a similar situation.

    It seems mostly a waste of time to me to investigate the origin of the coronavirus, but Trump insisted on it and made a big deal about it. I think he believes he was putting pressure on China and might get a better deal by applying it. Then for some reason, PM Scott Morrison expressed agreement with Trump on this, and China reacted by threatening to put tariffs on various key products it imports from Australia. China's real goal is to increase its own influence in Australia while reducing the influence of the US and other democracies.

    Australia is vulnerable the way many countries rich in resources are. They rely too much on mining and agricultural exports. Australia should have noticed long ago that they are too dependent on exporting coal to China. China can cause higher unemployment in Australia whenever it wants just by reducing its coal imports. I understand trying to save those mining jobs for now; but no one seemed willing or able to create new businesses in the coal mining areas so if the mining jobs disappear, people can still find employment.

    Coal is just one example. At present, China has a meat shortage too, so why would they be threatening Australia with higher tariffs on beef products? My guess is they think they can find that beef elsewhere if Australia doesn't bow down to them; and they probably could too. There are other things Australia exports to China; and amazingly, I just discovered this week that some of those businesses are partly owned by Chinese investors. That means if China slaps tariffs on a product, it hurts not only the Australians who have the jobs and the investors who own part interest int the company, it's also hurting the Chinese investors. That won't matter that much to the Chinese government.

    Note too that how money flows in and out of countries is often ignored when people tout the advantages of "foreign investment." Surely a completely undeveloped country will benefit if foreign investors show up and create businesses with jobs; but the profits from those businesses do not stay in the country -- they flow to the foreign investors. Thus Chinese investors are getting richer by investing in Australian businesses; and some percentage of the profits are leaving for China. The news article I read could not determine what that percentage is. It reported that it's known there are Chinese investors in several companies, but the extent that Chinese investors own businesses seems to be unknown. I think Morrison's government should be investigating that more than worrying about the origin of the coronavirus. How much capital is flowing out of Australia into China when Australian businesses are operating profitably? It would be good to know since Australia would benefit if that capital, if sizable, stayed in Australia for more investment in other businesses.

    Which way will the Morrison government go in the current dispute with China? I predict it will cave in to China, more or less. There is little to motivate Australia to side with the US on anything when it comes to economic issues. Trump seems to care only about American interests in the short term. He is an unreliable ally when it comes to taking on either China or Russia. He fails to see the advantages of having long term alliances, even it costs a little money to keep them in place.
     
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  9. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    LoL... How do u know so much about us. Im impressed.
    Just one small error, u said that China threatened to put tariffs on some of our goods which more or less right
    But u didn't mention that they went ahead and put an 80% tariff on our barley and stop doing business with 4 of our biggest beef suppliers.
    Still but im impressed...

    Im dirty on all the world leaders cos our PM, ScoMo, went out on a limb to demand an independent inquiry. He contacted all the world leaders. Thats when China cut our barley and beef to make an example of Australia to the rest of the world "u go against China we will cut u off like this"
    And the world leaders capitulated and bowed down to China by agreeing to let the WHO lead the inquiry

    Then there is this "belt and road initiative" which ScoMo said no to... So the premier of the leftist state of all, Victoria, went behind Australias back to make a deal with China. Then when ask about the economic details as in how much are u borrowing they refuse to tell us

    We have politicians saying stuff like "oh we better keep quite and not disturb China cos their worth billions to our economy"
    I couldn't care less about Aussie economy, i care about our peoples economy, like real estate here is criminal.

    I think they should cut ties with China all together. "oh but we'll loose...." I don't care... Manufacturing would come back and heaps more jobs would be created. But like u said our government relies too much on mining, iron ore is another massive export
    We used to mine the iron, manufacture the steel then sell it to China.
    Now we send the iron to China, the manufacture the steel then we buy it back off them. Stupid

    And don't even get me started about our military industrial complex, its almost non existent now.
    "oh we dont need hardware cos the USA has our back"... Like are u guys dumb. In WW2 the yanks only just made it to the coral sea in time to intercept the Japanese who were on their way here. If the USA has their hands full in a war then we'll have to fight ourselves. And to be honest our closest neighbor, Indonesia could take over Australia with baseball bats such is the difference in numbers. We have no carriers, no subs, our airforce is obsolete, we closed down ship yards and other military based companies like BAE and Tennex, we have no missile defence and no missiles...
    Absolute stupidity. And many Aussies think "they won't come for us, a huge desert with nothing"... Stupid, why then was Japan trying to invade us?
    Our natural resorces is enough for any country to want to take us...

    Then our real estate, they own over 25% of it. They buy land off the government and build new estates or high rise apartments. Idiots
    Why not just sell the whole nation off ya greedy bastards. Makes me so angry cos iv watched the average price of a house go from under $200,000 to over $800,000 in 20 years while the wages remained flatline. Ive seen manufacturing collapse...
    Bottom line is that the politicians have sold us out and they should be ashamed
     
  10. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Ye but how can a nation retaliate on that basis when China has always been under tyrannical rule without the west saying anything
    Like they should of done something earlier, its too late now. HK is lucky cos they really should of been back to China way back in 1997 but the Chinese weren't in a strong enough position then. Britain didn't have a big enough navy to hold onto Hong Kong. Time was up and the deal that it goes back to China
     
  11. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I see grounds. First China agreed to the one China-two systems arrangement before the UK handed Hong Kong back to them. That arrangement prevented a war, and it has kept Hong Kong a thriving city for decades. China is saying it does not need to honor a treaty it signed.

    Ten years ago, China wouldn't have dared to try this move. First of all, Hong Kong had more clout inside China then. Many businesses registered in Hong Kong so they could do business easier with other countries without all the red tape and unnecessary government interference. A business might be operating in mainland China but still register in Hong Kong. That has changed. Shanghai has become more important; and it looks to me as if China thinks they can allow the Hong Kong structure crumble since the Shanghai structure can handle it. They honored the treaty as long as they needed Hong Kong.

    People who own stock in companies traded on the Hong Kong stock exchange have been selling. Prices are down; and investors from mainland China are buying those stocks. I guess they think they're getting a bargain. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I can't tell what is actually going on in China. Someone seems to be lying. Are things as rosy as the Chinese government seems to say?

    I rather think not. I was discussing Australia's coal exports in the previous post; but it's complicated. On one hand, we're told China is leading the way in manufacturing solar panels. On the other hand, we're told demand for electricity is so high, they need to keep building more coal-fueled electicity plants. I heard a woman from China saying that on the BBC. Is it true? If it is, why would they be threatening Australia over coal? Is the demand for all that coal still there? If so, why have the stock prices of Chinese coal mining companies take such a hit just recently? I can understand it when the coronavirus was a big threat. Surely, you close the mines, they aren't making money, profits are down, so the price of the stock goes down. Why are they still going down? Here's one: China Coal. CHINA COAL (1898.HK) Stock Price, Quote, History & News - Yahoo Finance

    Are the coal mines capable of operating at full capacity in China? I don't know. For all I know, coronavirus could have affected the miners and still is. Perhaps the demand for coal is down. Who knows?

    Other Chinese stocks are showing up on lists of "today's biggest losers" and "stocks which hit 52-week lows." If I try to research some of them, I find very little or nothing to explain it. On the surface, things look fine. For example, why did Yum-China just fall so drastically? (Yum operates stores like Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.) I could understand that fall during the coronavirus scare and shutdown, but why now? The only theory I can come up with is that the Chinese govenment can control the news that shows up that I can read; but people inside China know things I don't. Things are not as rosy as Chinese news may portray.

    Why would YY fall (it's traded on the NASDAQ)? I'd never heard of that company before. They do live-streaming and online gaming. Analysts were universally recommending to buy, predicting it would go up. It crashed. (You can find a chart by googling "YY stock"). From reading the news, I'd think it was a good buy, cheap at the price and apt to rise; but it crashed. I can't believe their business went down because of coronavirus. I would think people stuck at home would have used it more; but executives blamed the virus for a decline in users. They also claimed revenues were higher from other parts of their operations. I wouldn't want to buy this stock since I don't trust the information I'm given.

    I think it safe to predict that if China does take over Hong Kong, things will get even worse for China. Many Western investors willing to do business now in Hong Kong will exit the Chinese markets. Businesses like Apple will likely be looking for other countries to do business in if China persists in its threats. President Xi seems to be overplaying his hand, following the principle, "Pride goeth before a fall."

    What do dictatorial governments do if they fail domestically? The pattern is there: They either resort to angry rhetoric against other countries, or worse they go to war. If Xi finds his power eroding away, I can see him thinking invading Hong Hong might help him on mainland China. It might too if Hong Kong can be blamed for it in a way the Chinese on the mainland find credible.

    Who would do anything about it? I doubt the US or the UK would lift a finger. Both are paper tigers. Trump might tweet angrily, but that's all he would do. Don't be surprised then if China invades in a few months, timing it in late October or early November right before the US election. It could put the final nail in the coffin for Trump. Biden could portray him as weak; and China could blame Trump for agitating the people of Hong Kong. China has already blamed the US for the unrest in Hong Kong. The US could be portrayed as willing to issue propaganda to interfere in Chinese affairs -- but unwilling to do anything real. It would send a powerful message to the rest of the world: "You can't depend on the US for anything real. Alliances with the US are worthless."
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  12. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    What do you expect when some iron mines are partly owned by the Chinese?

    May 27, 2019 China steelmaker poised to gain full ownership of WA magnetite mine

    China’s Ansteel is a step closer to owning 100 per cent of the Karara magnetite iron ore operations in Western Australia after an independent expert backed its $25 million offer for ASX-listed Gindalbie Metals.

    Ansteel already has a 36 per cent stake in Gindalbie, its minority partner in the Karara project in WA’s mid west that has about $US3.2 billion ($4.6 billion) debt.

    An independent expert’s report by BDO said Ansteel’s 2.6¢-a-share offer was fair and reasonable even taking into account the recent spike in iron ore prices.

    The Ansteel buyout, which requires shareholder approval at a meeting on July 3, comes as Clive Palmer continues his bitter battle with China’s CITIC Limited over the Sino Iron magnetite project in WA and Fortescue Metals Group pushes ahead with a new magnetite project in the state.
     
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  13. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I hear some things on the BBC; and I was reading up on the Chinese stock market the other day, wondering what was going on there and wondering about the trade dispute with Australia might be affecting things, so I was looking into that too.

    I think the problems with barley and beef were slaps meant to scare Australia -- inspiring fear about what else China might do next.
     
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  14. Scoot

    Scoot Member

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    Not necessarily. Those businesses in Australia that are owned by the Chinese government can be prop them back up / refunded by the Chinese government for the tarrif that they take behind the scenes. This would be a very simplistic way for the Chinese government to monopolies the market, make only their own businesses viable for exports to China, and take out competitors (or buy them out) - and use an 'excuse' as to why they're doing it to be less blatant/obvious.

    I'm a firm believer that whatever moves China makes - it's not for the reasons that seem apparent. Ie - targeting barley and meat exports isn't something they came up with on a whim. I suspect this has been planned for years - and they've been waiting for the right opportunity / excuse to make it happen.

    I've been watching China for years - they have been making lots of moves towards Australia. However this in itself is also moot in that - I have little control over this whether it be true or not. I'm trying to figure out how I respond spiritually. My question still remains:

    What is my role as a follower of Jesus Christ, and as a father and husband through this.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    If we get manufacturing back here it will be at the cost of wages, its all being prepared fewer jobs, the way back is more employed with lower wages, Its coming to all, every country, they will tell us it its good for us, no one has the guts to stand up to China, she has her tentacles in everything, she played the harlot and all the nations of the world slept with her, now we reap what we sow, you sleep with a harlot you catch her diseases.

    Come Jesus come the time is ripe,
     
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  16. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Being saying that for years, but who cares as long as you have a job. Now they dont they might care
     
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  17. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Oh ok, my bad. I was unaware of this "one China two systems" deal
     
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  18. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Ye i know... Its no good... Australia was doing just fine in the 80s and 90s. But then they got greedy
    The government are supposed to look after its citizens, these days their main concern is to make money
     
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  19. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Ye well u know know more than me when it comes to the stock market thats for sure

    I agree but it was also a warning to other nations. The timing of it was precise, a week or two before the nations decided on this investigation
    Cos ScoMo was proposing an INDEPENDENT inquiry, aside from the WHO. But China flipped it.
    But with the WHO leading the inquiry Ping was there all smiles to sign it.
    Those sanctions on the barley and beef influenced world leaders I believe
     
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  20. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Hello

    From a scriptural perspective how will this prophecy impact on Australia: -

    Jeremiah 51:9-19: -

    9 We would have healed Babylon,
    But she is not healed.
    Forsake her, and let us go everyone to his own country;
    For her judgment reaches to heaven and is lifted up to the skies. ​
    10 The Lord has revealed our righteousness.
    Come and let us declare in Zion the work of the Lord our God. ​

    11 Make the arrows bright!
    Gather the shields!
    The Lord has raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes.
    For His plan is against Babylon to destroy it,

    Because it is the vengeance of the Lord,
    The vengeance for His temple. ​
    12 Set up the standard on the walls of Babylon;
    Make the guard strong,
    Set up the watchmen,
    Prepare the ambushes.
    For the Lord has both devised and done
    What He spoke against the inhabitants of Babylon. ​
    13 O you who dwell by many waters,
    Abundant in treasures,
    Your end has come,
    The measure of your covetousness. ​
    14 The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:
    "Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts,
    And they shall lift up a shout against you.
    " ​

    15 He has made the earth by His power;
    He has established the world by His wisdom,
    And stretched out the heaven by His understanding. ​
    16 When He utters His voice —
    There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
    "He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
    He makes lightnings for the rain;
    He brings the wind out of His treasuries.
    " ​

    17 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge;
    Every metalsmith is put to shame by the carved image;
    For his molded image is falsehood,
    And there is no breath in them. ​
    18 They are futile, a work of errors;
    In the time of their punishment they shall perish. ​
    19 The Portion of Jacob is not like them,
    For He is the Maker of all things;
    And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance.

    How much of this prophecy do we understand? Where is China in this prophecy?

    Do we remember this happening in our recent past?

    Jeremiah 50:41-42: -

    41 "Behold, a people shall come from the north,
    And a great nation and many kings
    Shall be raised up from the ends of the earth.
    42 They shall hold the bow and the lance;
    They are cruel and shall not show mercy.
    Their voice shall roar like the sea;
    They shall ride on horses,
    Set in array, like a man for the battle,
    Against you, O daughter of Babylon. ​

    I know that the Prime Minister of Australia advised advised the "king" of a great nation shortly after the time of the three foul frog like spirits, that Babylon should be invaded and many nations joined the cry to invade Babylon.

    Yes, China, already a faithful servant, is developing and collecting coin from Satan to oppress the nations during the first 1,000 years of the next and last Age, but even then the Harvesting of souls during that time, cannot be stopped by the leadership of the Chinses Government during that time.

    We see or read of a small event and then attempt to make a mole hill out of it.

    Shalom
     
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