China moves to take over Hong Kong

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Giuliano

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My question still remains:

What is my role as a follower of Jesus Christ, and as a father and husband through this.
You are in a democracy where the people decide who gets to govern. You have a responsibility, I think, to look at the situation and try your best to figure out who it's best to vote for. That means you need to take into account your neighbors, and future generations too. Too many people vote for what is "best for me now." They don't seem to coinsider what's good for others and what what will be good for the next generation.
 

Giuliano

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I agree but it was also a warning to other nations. The timing of it was precise, a week or two before the nations decided on this investigation
Cos ScoMo was proposing an INDEPENDENT inquiry, aside from the WHO. But China flipped it.
But with the WHO leading the inquiry Ping was there all smiles to sign it.
Those sanctions on the barley and beef influenced world leaders I believe
Quite right. They had an impact in the US.

The barley and beef situation was quite interesting since while the Chinese were threatening Australia, they were promising the US to buy more American barley and they had struck a deal to buy more beef from Russia. China is using the "divide and conquer" tactic. If the US is that desperate to sell barley to China, China can get away with threatening Australia. But it works both ways: If the US is that desperate, China can also make it jump through hoops. If the US doesn't stand by Australia, why should Australia stand by the US? Relations between the two are becoming weaker with China increasingly calling the shots. I don't like what I'm seeing.
 

Scoot

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You are in a democracy where the people decide who gets to govern. You have a responsibility, I think, to look at the situation and try your best to figure out who it's best to vote for. That means you need to take into account your neighbors, and future generations too. Too many people vote for what is "best for me now." They don't seem to coinsider what's good for others and what what will be good for the next generation.

Thanks Giuliano,

I vote accordingly - but my thoughts were more along the lines of what do I do with the knowledge that I have - closer to home - for my family.

At present - my thoughts are that unless some incredible miracle happens in this country - this country is lost - and will eventually be taken over by China. I have a very strong conviction about this. So many signs point to it. Both spiritually (our country has turned it's back on God, is chasing all things wicked, and seems overdue for a judgement) as well as by foolish actions - (continue to make their voices clear which way they want this country to go socialism, more wicked, big government, political correctness, etc).

The end result I believe is similar to Israel when God took them away into captivity to Babylon. I believe that we will either end up being owned by China (either by business and government deals) - if not military action - and we will be servants to China. Obviously what follows from their is the same oppression that we're seeing in China - and is going to Hong Kong.

I have seriously considered packing my bags and leave this country with my family with the dangers I see ahead and get out early (like some Jews did in Germany pre WW2 before the lockdown) - except for one thing - there is no place to go. The rest of the world seems to be headed in the same direction in one way or another. As I mentioned previously - Lot had the option to leave and go elsewhere. Our option seems to be to go between Gomorrah's and Sodom's.

I don't want to instill fear into my family (especially our daughter) - but in the same time I want to prepare them for a future very different and a lot more hostile than we have now.

My current thoughts are to pray for this nation and have hope for a miracle, whilst preparing for the worse. Preparing my family accordingly - seeing how Joseph whilst was a slave - was able to still conduct himself and be used by God - likewise Daniel, etc and be encouraged, and encourage my family in these examples.

This is the spiritual aspect - but I'm not sure what to do (or if there is anything I can/should do) practically.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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China is a creation of a handful of very wealthy men who control the world. they created WW2 they created Communist Russia, they created Nazi Germany, they set the wheels in motion for everything.
Any person who invest in Communist Nations is guilty of Hellfire.
This Mob of people who control the world have created China to become a monster, not to mention that they have created North Korea and supported it with USA tax payers money, if it did not do so North Korea would of fell many years ago, so why prop such insane brainwashed war like people for ? :rolleyes:
The Mob created Nazi Germany, they pulled the rug out from under them and created the conditions and then invested in them building them up to such a war power and then destroyed them and the UK. Not to mention Poland was lost ? the whole war was about saving Poland so they claimed, but if you look into it all that is total nonsense, they could not care about Poland at all. fact is that the Communist were only empowered with WW2 and from then on totally let loose.

WW2 was created to give the Communist power.

The majority of mega wealthy love only to undermine all people, that's why they are so wealthy, one does not get wealthy like that out of the goodness of your heart. hell they pay bugger all % tax as well in the last 30 years, it's all been geared for them. such people once payed a hell of a lot of % tax. the real wealthy are getting stupid wealthy and many in the hard working class are being driven into the ground.

I seen our PM Keating work to undermine Australian business full on, he created a boom and then he created a bust, all in the plan in hope to destroy Australian businesses, in that boom many in business had to lend much money to keep up and the tax system made it so they all would have to play along or get left behind, so they borrowed heavy in money, but it was not in borrowing in Australian Banks, but in outside ones, the inflation rate was very high at the time as well. so when PM Keating created the (Recession that we had to have) it was called ? he said that we are going to have a soft landing, well the Aussie dollar dropped so far that they who borrowed heavy in outside banks were now in real hot water and they came crashing down real hard. PM Keating really bastardised the Banking system but claimed it was good competition, well no ! in reality it was his masters that did not want our good healthy Banking system and wanted to set up a mongrel one.
They dangle the carrot on any issue and the media backs them up and the majority are non the wiser.

I think the Chines people are fine but the Communist leadership has to go ! it's way to evil, so don't feed the bastard or it will bite us.
 
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Enoch111

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Im dirty on all the world leaders cos our PM, ScoMo, went out on a limb to demand an independent inquiry.
Why does he not take it one step further? Why does he not set up an International Investigative Commission without waiting for someone's approval, and why does he just stop with WHO when there are at least a dozen co-conspirators? The trouble with politicians is that they do not have the guts to finish the job.

Now WHO has decided to sabotage HCQ (along with all the naysayers) because of a BOGUS study which excluded erythromycin and zinc sulfate, and therefore failed to produce results. This is criminal sabotage in my estimation, and all these so-called experts are playing politics with the lives of millions.

Also the bogus WHO estimate on coronavirus death rates of 3.4% has been knocked down by CDC recently to 0.26%, and as far as I'm concerned it is probably more like 0.1%. Washington State is classifying gunshot deaths as COVID deaths, while the Fake NYT included murders as COVID deaths. This is all a TOTAL FARCE. And unless deaths are categorized by age and pre-existing health conditions, they mean nothing.

I expected Trump to fire Redfield, Fauci, Birx etc and set up an independent commission to investigate all these criminals. Nothing has happened and nothing will. Just like OBAMAGATE. The big fish will go on polluting the waters, while they snag the little fish and claim that justice has been served. So, in effect, the Swamp in NOT being drained.
 

Cristo Rei

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Why does he not take it one step further? Why does he not set up an International Investigative Commission without waiting for someone's approval, and why does he just stop with WHO when there are at least a dozen co-conspirators? The trouble with politicians is that they do not have the guts to finish the job.

China wouldn't allow a group of Aussies to enter Wuhan and investigate on their own.
Without the support of other nations one country is limited in what they can achieve in an inquiry
 

Giuliano

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Thanks Giuliano,

I vote accordingly - but my thoughts were more along the lines of what do I do with the knowledge that I have - closer to home - for my family.

At present - my thoughts are that unless some incredible miracle happens in this country - this country is lost - and will eventually be taken over by China. I have a very strong conviction about this. So many signs point to it. Both spiritually (our country has turned it's back on God, is chasing all things wicked, and seems overdue for a judgement) as well as by foolish actions - (continue to make their voices clear which way they want this country to go socialism, more wicked, big government, political correctness, etc).

The end result I believe is similar to Israel when God took them away into captivity to Babylon. I believe that we will either end up being owned by China (either by business and government deals) - if not military action - and we will be servants to China. Obviously what follows from their is the same oppression that we're seeing in China - and is going to Hong Kong.

I have seriously considered packing my bags and leave this country with my family with the dangers I see ahead and get out early (like some Jews did in Germany pre WW2 before the lockdown) - except for one thing - there is no place to go. The rest of the world seems to be headed in the same direction in one way or another. As I mentioned previously - Lot had the option to leave and go elsewhere. Our option seems to be to go between Gomorrah's and Sodom's.

I don't want to instill fear into my family (especially our daughter) - but in the same time I want to prepare them for a future very different and a lot more hostile than we have now.

My current thoughts are to pray for this nation and have hope for a miracle, whilst preparing for the worse. Preparing my family accordingly - seeing how Joseph whilst was a slave - was able to still conduct himself and be used by God - likewise Daniel, etc and be encouraged, and encourage my family in these examples.

This is the spiritual aspect - but I'm not sure what to do (or if there is anything I can/should do) practically.
I don't see China using their military against Australia. It would cost them too much, and they'd be risking a lot. Their style is to get a big military, so big that other countries are afraid -- so they don't need to use it. Why use armies to turn other countries into colonies if you can use banks and business? Why spend money if you can make it?

They also know the presence of Chinese troops annoys the local populations. Thus they are reluctant to use soldiers in uniforms to protect their projects or the workers building things for the Belt and Road Initiative. Last year they hired Erik Prince's company Blackwater to do it for them. Prince can get away with it for now since his sister is in Trump's cabinet.

Erik Prince's company plans business in China province under human rights scrutiny according to financial disclosure

An American citizen stands to profit as his security company expands operations into a Chinese province described as a modern-day police state by human rights activists, and where the Chinese government is detaining up to a million Muslims in "re-education" camps.

Erik Prince, a former U.S. Navy SEAL officer and brother of U.S. Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, is the deputy chairman and minority shareholder of Frontier Services Group (FSG), a Hong Kong-listed security, logistics and insurance company he co-founded in 2014. Prior to FSG, Prince founded Blackwater, a private military contractor that was mired in controversy for its actions in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars -- specifically when its employees were convicted of killing unarmed civilians.

Other countries hire "private security" firms to do things. That way, if human abuses occur, they can say, "We didn't do it. That company did it."

Australia, for the time being, is too far away from China to make a military invasion feasible. The danger (as I see it) is how China is trying to expand its presence in the area, converting Australian allies into Chinese colonies. You probably know about that.
 

Scoot

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I don't see China using their military against Australia.

Thanks for addressing my post Giuliano, but they don't need to just use military. I've just found out our State leader has just signed a secret contract with China as part of the Trillion dollar belt and roads initiative. One thing we do know is that China has a clause in their that if the loan can't be repaid (and it can't - the state is already in debt it can't pay off - so this takes us further in) - they get to sieze the assets. They effectively will own and control the lifeline of our state - our roads and transport in time to come.

Millitary is one road - and we saw it in WW2 - but it's not the only road for oppression. I see Jews around the world returning to Israel as persecution comes in different areas. I guess God's way of bringing them back into the land. The rest of us have no home land to flee too, like people did a century or two ago. (Being Australia and America for starters).

I'm just not sure what else I can do - from a practical side to prepare my family for the future. I don't much care about myself - come what may - but I feel an overwhelming burden of responsibility to make choices that set them up best for the future - ones I don't know what direction to take.
 

Enoch111

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China wouldn't allow a group of Aussies to enter Wuhan and investigate on their own.
Did you miss the "international" in my post? And they do not even have to enter Wuhan. Researchers outside Wuhan with access to the virus have already established that it was deliberately manipulated to attack human cells. Furthermore, the whole world knows that the infection originated in China. But the whole point of the investigation would be to connect the dots properly and inform the world about the truth. What has been seriously missing from day one is the truth (and it may never come to light).
 

Scoot

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What has been seriously missing from day one is the truth (and it may never come to light).

This because we're moving into an era where many don't value truth. People wanting to hear what they want to hear rather than truth. I could never in my wildest thoughts imagine us being where we are today as reality. The issues with COVID virus and truth are just a symptom of a far larger and more dangerous disease.

I can't help but be convinced that we are living in Romans 1 - especially version 28 when it mentions deranged minds.
 

Cristo Rei

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Did you miss the "international" in my post? And they do not even have to enter Wuhan. Researchers outside Wuhan with access to the virus have already established that it was deliberately manipulated to attack human cells. Furthermore, the whole world knows that the infection originated in China. But the whole point of the investigation would be to connect the dots properly and inform the world about the truth. What has been seriously missing from day one is the truth (and it may never come to light).

ScoMo tried to establish an International Investigative Commission, independent of the WHO when he contacted the worlds leaders.
That's why China was furious and put sanctions on Aussie barley and beef. A big hit to our economy and a warning to other countries

The world leaders should of accepted ScoMo's proposal. Instead they all let him down and decided to go through the UN.

He was the only world leader with the guts to call for an independent inquiry, the only country to get sanctions from China and in the end the world let him down and chose to side with China. And even still now there is talk of China putting sanctions on our coal and iron ore as well...

What exactly do u think ScoMo should of done or should do now? How many more sanctions do u want Australia to take on its own?
I can't fault ScoMo on this issue. I point the finger at the worlds leaders
 
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Enoch111

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What exactly do u think ScoMo should of done or should do now?
Scott Morrison spoke out of both sides of his mouth as reported on May 1,2020:

"Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who has angered Beijing by calling for a global inquiry into the coronavirus outbreak, said he had no evidence to suggest the disease originated in a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan."

US President Donald Trump said on Thursday he was confident the coronavirus may have originated in a Chinese virology lab, but declined to describe the evidence he said he had seen.

Morrison said on Friday that Australia had no information to support that theory, and said the confusion supported his push for an inquiry to understand how the outbreak started and then spread rapidly around the world.
"What we have before us doesn't suggest that that is the likely source," Morrison told a news conference in Canberra when asked about Trump's comments.

Australian PM Says "No Evidence" Coronavirus Originated In China Lab

So what we have on one hand is the American president insisting that the Wuhan virus originated in Wuhan, and the Australian PM dithering by firstly calling for an inquiry, and then saying publicly that he disagreed with Trump (when Trump was right all along) and refusing to hold China accountable. And in spite of that China took action against Australia.

There is no question that Australia's self-serving big business guns opposed Morrison's call for an inquiry, since they all have close links with China, but Morrison should have had the intestinal fortitude to stand with Trump and let the world know that he planned to have a joint independent expert Australian-American investigative commission set up immediately, and challenged the rest of the Western leaders to show some guts.

We should not forget that Australia has been trying to play both sides against the middle. It is supposed to be an ally of the USA, but it was the Australian ambassador to London -- Alexander Downer -- who got the ball rolling against Trump with the BOGUS Mueller Russian Collusion Hoax, after donating or organizing a $25 million donation to the BOGUS Clinton Foundation!

Australian Diplomat Who Triggered Trump-Russia Investigation has Ties to Clintons
legalinsurrection.com/2018/03/australian-diplomat-that-triggered-trump-russia-investigation-has-ties-to-clintons/
 
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Cristo Rei

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We should not forget that Australia has been trying to play both sides against the middle. It is supposed to be an ally of the USA, but it was the Australian ambassador to London -- Alexander Downer -- who got the ball rolling against Trump with the BOGUS Mueller Russian Collusion Hoax, after donating or organizing a $25 million donation to the BOGUS Clinton Foundation!

Australian Diplomat Who Triggered Trump-Russia Investigation has Ties to Clintons
legalinsurrection.com/2018/03/australian-diplomat-that-triggered-trump-russia-investigation-has-ties-to-clintons/
Alexander Downer... I didn't know this... What a traitor... A right wing politician as well
"Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison, who has angered Beijing by calling for a global inquiry into the coronavirus outbreak, said he had no evidence to suggest the disease originated in a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan."

US President Donald Trump said on Thursday he was confident the coronavirus may have originated in a Chinese virology lab, but declined to describe the evidence he said he had seen.

Morrison said on Friday that Australia had no information to support that theory, and said the confusion supported his push for an inquiry to understand how the outbreak started and then spread rapidly around the world.
"What we have before us doesn't suggest that that is the likely source," Morrison told a news conference in Canberra when asked about Trump's comments.

Ye I know, I remember thinking what are u talking about, after Trump had confirmed that he had conclusive evidence that it came from the lab.

But to be fair do we know how Trump and ScoMo got in contact, we don't know when or what was said.
ScoMo had already called for an inquiry (and most likely had already spoken to Trump) before he knew about that
That left ScoMo to rely on his own sources when asked to speculate. That's why he said Australia had no intel to say it came from a lab

He should of just said he was leaving it with the investigation team. But ScoMo's false speculation was just that, speculation and nothing more
It doesn't change the fact that he stuck his neck out only for China to chop it

There is no question that Australia's self-serving big business guns opposed Morrison's call for an inquiry, since they all have close links with China, but Morrison should have had the intestinal fortitude to stand with Trump and let the world know that he planned to have a joint independent expert Australian-American investigative commission set up immediately, and challenged the rest of the Western leaders to show some guts.

Ye ur right but as I said above we don't know when they spoke or what was said.
ScoMo wasn't asked about his conversation with Trump and I never heard Trump talk about speaking with ScoMo.
Was Trump even talking about an investigation at that time? I don't remember Trump saying a word about it

The fact that Trump pulled out of the WHO should of made it easy for ScoMo to ally with the USA i would have thought but it didn't happen

But enough picking on ScoMo, he is our Trump. Since taking office he has coped the same rubbish from the left and the media.
Jumping on any little thing, taking things out of context and the rest

U know the huge fires that we had last summer, most of them were deliberately lit (I can only assume by leftists) but the madia and left wing party did nothing to help anyone. All they did was blamed ScoMo and climate change. They basically blamed ScoMo for not controlling the weather.

Anyway, how about your mate, Trudeau, what has he done? LoL
 

Giuliano

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Thanks for addressing my post Giuliano, but they don't need to just use military. I've just found out our State leader has just signed a secret contract with China as part of the Trillion dollar belt and roads initiative. One thing we do know is that China has a clause in their that if the loan can't be repaid (and it can't - the state is already in debt it can't pay off - so this takes us further in) - they get to sieze the assets. They effectively will own and control the lifeline of our state - our roads and transport in time to come.
This was the first I heatd of it; but searching on the internet suggests you're in Victoria since I see some sort of deal was made there. The Guardian calls it a "memorandum of understanding" and says it's not legally binding. How could it be binding? The states don't have the authority to make international trade or diplomatic agreements. If there was a "secret contract," I'd say it's not worth the paper it's written on since Andrews wasn't lawfully able to make it.

I wonder why the national government didn't invest money in Victoria if it was needed there? I also wonder why isn't the national government taking a firmer position. China should be told any contracts and agreements made with the state of Victoria are null and void -- the Chinese should think twice about what they do since courts would almost certainly not enforce them. If I were the PM, I'd be issuing a stern warning to the states about this kind of behavior. There probably are laws they could be prosecuted under, like interference with Australian foreign policy.

Millitary is one road - and we saw it in WW2 - but it's not the only road for oppression. I see Jews around the world returning to Israel as persecution comes in different areas. I guess God's way of bringing them back into the land. The rest of us have no home land to flee too, like people did a century or two ago. (Being Australia and America for starters).

I'm just not sure what else I can do - from a practical side to prepare my family for the future. I don't much care about myself - come what may - but I feel an overwhelming burden of responsibility to make choices that set them up best for the future - ones I don't know what direction to take.
You may be worrying about something that won't happen. It looks to me as if China has moved too quickly in asserting its economic and military power. They're arousing opposition on many fronts. They are behaving foolishly if you ask me, out of arrogance. They now have Vietnam angry with them after a Chinese ship sank a Vietnamese fishing boat; and the Philippines sided with Vietnam. Japan has decided it needs to ramp up its defenses. There is also the matter of how China refused to recognize the finding the international court about its sovereignty claims in the dispute with the Philippines -- China refused even to attend the court hearings.

One big weakness China has which almost no one talks about is how they lost the ability to feed themselves. Chairman Mao established that as a goal, and later leaders of China got it done. They eliminated starvation completely in China. I give them credit for that. Then along came the opening up of China for trade -- and they started focusing more on that and less on agriculture. I think it was extremely foolish to confiscate farms to build factories. They are now dependent on other countries for food. Now if a war broke out, they would have to protect every ship headed to China with food.

Their manufacturing infrastructure is also extremely vulnerable. For example, they have wrecked the local economies in some African countries. One example is how Africans used to mine their own iron and make knives, forks and spoons. China underpriced them. All the local businesses went out of business. So today China is importing iron from Africa, making the silverware and shipping it back to Africa for sale. That's one example. China's factories are very dependent on imports from other countries; and if there was a war, they'd have to protect all the ships carrying those imports. Their sales to democratic nations, supposing they could continue manufacture anything, would crumble.

I wouldn't worry too much then if I were you. The Chinese are powerful yes, but they're also bluffing a lot and counting on other countries to be more afraid than they need to be.
 
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