Thank you Vengle....these principles fill my mind and heart and they often feel like a cup overflowing. Psa 45:1 
Christ as the firstborn
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Many do not get that Christ's proving faithful to that Law showed that Law to be just and fair in its requirement of obedience to it.
Amen, that others do not experience this joy pains my heart.
Thank you Vengle....these principles fill my mind and heart and they often feel like a cup overflowing. Psa 45:1
Amen, that others do not experience this joy pains my heart.
I know exactly where your mind is situated.
For this reason they (bulls and goats) cannot take away sin. Jesus' sacrifice pleased Yahweh so much more than the sacrifice of oxen (Heb 9:12-14; 10:4-9; Psa 40:6-8; Isa 53:10; Psa 69:31). In this we find the great love between Father and Son, a love which will cause the true saints to worship Father and Son in the Kingdom age. Rev 5:12
If only many more understood these atoning principles.
Insight
Yes.
How wonderful both the Father and the son are to us. We cherish them. It hurts me to see them lose the joy of seeing just how superlative wonderful through their believing that Trinity doctrine.
As you have noticed they find their perception of what makes them wonderful only in that they are powerful. But they obscure their love which is why they have to keep reminding themselves over and over that God loves them. They do not really see that love and have to give themselves a pep rally remembering John 3:16.
We see that love in its completeness; they by a mere suggestion of it. So they invent stories to bolster their ability to keep believing because when the chips are down for them they find out that they are really full of doubt in themselves.
It makes me want to cry.
They say there are no Atheists in fox holes. Well i have news for them. These are desperate men in fox holes. Though full of doubt they will yet call on God to rescue them as there is nothing else they can think to do. Only when they have run out of self-willed options do they even think of calling out to God. but they have never learned to truly trust in and depend on God and so they are full of doubt, desperation, and anguish.
That is not what we saw in the criminal who hung next to Christ. We witnessed that criminal showing true trust in Christ. the seed for that this criminal had to have allowed to be planted in him beforehand.
It is 11:55 PM where I am at.
I am going to break and give my eyes a rest from the glare of this monitor for a short.
God bless you Insight.
I am going to break and give my eyes a rest from the glare of this monitor for a short.
God bless you Insight.
I had to jump back in here for a second to post this to you Insight.
Think about how those two criminals parallel all of us.
It is not at all about deathbed repentance. If you think about it you are equipped to know that we are all as those criminals who were a symbol of the sin that kills us.
Some through their stubbornness rejecting their hope.
Some placing their hope and their trust in Christ.
Those men were the product of their choices in life to either accept or reject the seed that God sought to sow in their hearts.
Think about how those two criminals parallel all of us.
It is not at all about deathbed repentance. If you think about it you are equipped to know that we are all as those criminals who were a symbol of the sin that kills us.
Some through their stubbornness rejecting their hope.
Some placing their hope and their trust in Christ.
Those men were the product of their choices in life to either accept or reject the seed that God sought to sow in their hearts.
Who would have known by Nomads Ill-conceived post the gospel would be defined as "good news" concerning Christ's death.
I wonder how long he will persist in being an enemy of Christ and not repent of his foolish and misconceived questions?
We shall watch and learn of him who called us.
Insight
I wonder how long he will persist in being an enemy of Christ and not repent of his foolish and misconceived questions?
We shall watch and learn of him who called us.
Insight
i was thinking about that earlier. It is a good sign that he keeps coming back.
I wanted to add to my last comment that what we see in those two criminals is: Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
Remember Paul said that if we would judge ourselves that we would not be judged? That criminal who showed the repentant attitude showed he judged himself in what he had told the other unrepentant criminal. Thus Jesus told him he would be with him in paradise.
What a beautiful picture this whole event and all its players are of the offer of salvation in Christ.
I cannot get myself to back away from this computer.
but i am going to in a minute.There are so many other things i see that i would like to share.
Nomad
Can you honestly look at 1 Cor 10:9-11 and suggest Paul is teaching Jesus was actually with God during the wilderness trials?
“Neither let us (present tense) tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted (past tense), and were destroyed of serpents (past tense). Neither murmur ye (present tense), as some of them also murmured (past tense), and were destroyed of the destroyer (past tense).
Now all these things happened (past tense) unto them for ensamples (present tense): and they are written for our admonition (implying present tense), upon whom the ends of the world are come.” (1 Corinthians 10:9-11)
Written approx AD 55 how many years after the Lords ascension?
To me the key passage from Paul to the Corinthian community is found in 1 Co 1:10 "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought", Has a ring about it doesn’t it?
Paul’s request was fulfilled perfectly by Jesus and the Father. They were certainly of one mind and thought (Logos). Of course nowhere in the Bible are we told to be one in nature.
Now getting back to your point about putting Christ to the test.
I assume your inferring a connection between testing Yahweh and testing Jesus and therefore making the distinction they are one in the same, co-equal, co eternal etc…
Could we apply the same methodology to the below verse?
Behold, I (Yahweh) send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. (Exodus 23:20-21)
I can only assume you would consider God here is saying don’t test this angel else he will deal harshly with you?
Would you consider this angel to be the deity? Very God? If we applied you line of thought this passage has all the ingredients of 2 Cor 10:9-11 and more.
- Yahweh’s name is in him – like Christ John 17:6,26
- Keep you in the way – like Christ
- Bring you into a place Yahweh has prepared (i.e. Kingdom) – Like Christ John 14:2
- Beware of him – Like Christ
- Obey his voice – Like Christ
- Provoke or test him not - Like Christ
- He will not pardon your sins – Unlike Christ!
- For my name is in him – Like Christ John 17:6,26 Col. 1:19; 2:9 us Eph. 3:19
This angel clearly could not pardon "transgressions" which speaks of the refusal to heed, like 2 Cor 10:9-11 and so "revolts." These would NOT be forgiven, and it was because of such that the generation which came out of Egypt perished in the wilderness.
The angel would administer a law of retribution in which there was no forgiveness except through the Redeemer to come.
This was designed to cause a true Israelite to seek for such a mediator to come (Gen. 3:15; Gal. 3:24).
So it appears your quote...“Neither let us (present tense) tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted (past tense), and were destroyed of serpents (past tense). Neither murmur ye (present tense), as some of them also murmured (past tense), and were destroyed of the destroyer (past tense).
Now all these things happened (past tense) unto them for ensamples (present tense): and they are written for our admonition (implying present tense), upon whom the ends of the world are come.” (1 Corinthians 10:9-11)
Is simply using thier example with Yahweh and His angel and stating we ought not to behave as they did toward Christ now, as he being above the Angel of Exod 23 "may" not pardon us also - though forgiveness can be found in him.
So are you able to thrust Trinitarian doctrine upon such a clear and concise passage?
Insight
One question Insight,
Notice how Numbers 21:5 says the people spoke both against God AND against Moses.
I know you know that Jesus is the prophet whom God raised up who is greater than Moses.
Do you reckon that at 1 Corinthians 10:9 the comparison Paul is making is Christ to Moses?
I mean Nomad did say, "The "Lord" there, once again, is Yahweh. Paul applies this text to Christ."
Is it not he assuming that the comparison is Christ to Yahweh when the comparison is Christ to Moses?
Of course how can one tempt the spokesman and not also be tempting the one he speaks for?
Notice how Numbers 21:5 says the people spoke both against God AND against Moses.
I know you know that Jesus is the prophet whom God raised up who is greater than Moses.
Do you reckon that at 1 Corinthians 10:9 the comparison Paul is making is Christ to Moses?
I mean Nomad did say, "The "Lord" there, once again, is Yahweh. Paul applies this text to Christ."
Is it not he assuming that the comparison is Christ to Yahweh when the comparison is Christ to Moses?
Of course how can one tempt the spokesman and not also be tempting the one he speaks for?
See Acts 7:50,51,52,53
Stephen is showing them how Moses viewed Israel and how they were behaving in like manner.
Yes, they resist any vessel God sends to them which speaks by His holy spirit. They tempt everyone and everything connected with God's holy spirit.
It boils down to grieving the holy spirit.
And as we know that holy spirit makes all one.
Therein they see God and become confused.
if you meant those verses differently by all means say so.
So i can learn.
Have you put much thought into how it is that we are blessed with the choice portions and a spiritual paradise even now?
However "And Yahweh sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died" Num 21:6
Of course in saying Yahweh we are speaking about the Angel of Exod 23:20,21
Of course in saying Yahweh we are speaking about the Angel of Exod 23:20,21
I agree whole-heartedly.
I went on to ask, "Have you put much thought into how it is that we are blessed with the choice portions and a spiritual paradise even now?"
We get the choice portions of even the meal being served up to the person who resists us. We learn new things of God continually as a part of the way he uses us.
Not that you resisted me when you earlier mentioned concerning Jesus saying no one is good but one, that being Yahweh.
But i did not tell you what I learned from that really was that I have been teaching a false doctrine.
You would have given me a nose bleed if i was resistant. :lol:
Our humility softens the punch.
I have been teaching that one day we will stand on our own righteousness.
You made me realize that i certainly ought to know better than that.
I did in #235
but not so much about that spiritual paradise; about the choice portions.
It would be nice if these threads had a way of showing someone yet typing and editing. like even a little flag they could manually raise and let down.
See,like right now I have no idea if you are typing or pondering or what.
In all fairness I meant my teaching to be that God would perfect His righteousness in us.
But the way i was teaching it was obscuring that and making it seem that I was saying that we would would have our own righteousness and not only that but that we are the ones who perfect it.
The reality is that God perfects His righteousness in us if we submit to letting Him do so.
In all fairness I meant my teaching to be that God would perfect His righteousness in us.
But the way i was teaching it was obscuring that and making it seem that I was saying that we would would have our own righteousness and not only that but that we are the ones who perfect it.
The reality is that God perfects His righteousness in us if we submit to letting Him do so.
I am pondering post #235 reconciling your conculsion about standing in our own righteouness.
1 Cor 10:31 comes to mind.
I just read your above thougths and I agree totally.
We must see ourselves and maggots, worms, the least of all people in the earth, while appreciating our high calling.
1 Cor 10:31 comes to mind.
I just read your above thougths and I agree totally.
We must see ourselves and maggots, worms, the least of all people in the earth, while appreciating our high calling.
Good point. And what that shows is that God attributes our obedience as righteousness.
That only happens by our letting go of our own idea as to righteousness and listening to His word of righteousness to do what He tells us.
faith is not faith without it works by love to produce obedience. Galatians 5:6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
John 14:24 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."
So it can be said that He attributes our faith as righteousness.
But you will note how "the obedience of righteousness" is a phrase often used in scripture as is also "the righteousness of faith".
fascinating, hey?
It is like precious morsels of food that we savor upon our taste buds.
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