Christ will come again

[dragonfly]

Hi all,

With regard to Azal, yesterday I happened upon a connection of interest quite unexpectedly. In the past, I'd looked in christiananswers.net for an explanation of the meaning of Azal. They suggested 'very near' = 'a way of escape made easy'. We believe it is near Jerusalem. Zech 14:5.

1 Samuel 20:19 And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by the stone Ezel. 20 And I will shoot three arrows on the side thereof, as though I shot at a mark. 21 And, behold, I will send a lad, saying, Go, find out the arrows. If I expressly say unto the lad, Behold, the arrows are on this side of thee, take them; then come thou: for there is peace to thee, and no hurt; as the Lord liveth. 22 But if I say thus unto the young man, Behold, the arrows are beyond thee; go thy way: for the Lord hath sent thee away.


What d'you think?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hi all,

With regard to Azal, yesterday I happened upon a connection of interest quite unexpectedly. In the past, I'd looked in christiananswers.net for an explanation of the meaning of Azal. They suggested 'very near' = 'a way of escape made easy'. We believe it is near Jerusalem. Zech 14:5.

1 Samuel 20:19 And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by the stone Ezel. 20 And I will shoot three arrows on the side thereof, as though I shot at a mark. 21 And, behold, I will send a lad, saying, Go, find out the arrows. If I expressly say unto the lad, Behold, the arrows are on this side of thee, take them; then come thou: for there is peace to thee, and no hurt; as the Lord liveth. 22 But if I say thus unto the young man, Behold, the arrows are beyond thee; go thy way: for the Lord hath sent thee away.

What d'you think?

The Hebrew spelling of Ezel is different than Azal. It supposedly means departure, whereas the Hebrew lemma of Azal means 'to join'.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

ē´zel ( האזל , hā -'āzel ; Septuagint παρὰ τὸ ἐργὰβ ἐκεῖνο , pará tó ergáb ekeı́no ): As it stands, the narrative in 1 Samuel 20:19
records the tryst of Jonathan with David at the stone Ezel. The name occurs only here. There is general agreement that the text is corrupt, but there is no agreement as to how it should be restored. The Septuagint reads "this mound" (the Revised Version (British and American), margin), or "yonder cairn"; and in 1 Samuel 20:41 instead of "out of a place toward the South" it reads "from beside the mound" or "cairn." Dr. Cheyne suggests "yonder juniper tree" ( Encyclopaedia Biblica , under the word).

The Hebrew word translated 'by' in 'by the stone Ezel' is actually spelled exactly the same as Azal. I have wondered before if this doesn't refer to the Azal Valley which David would have passed on his journey into the Judean wilderness. In fact, the Azal Valley, which is about 1700 ft southeast of the well of EnRogel, would have been a perfect out-of-the-way spot for David and Jonathan to meet undetected. Perhaps the stone of Ezel was in the Azal Valley?

The LXX has simply 'you shall sit near that stone'.

You will not find anything about Azal on the Internet that is more informative that what is in the Mystery of Azal link below. It is the definitive resource for Azal in existence (that I know of). Everything else I have seen pales by orders of magnitude in comparison.

 

[KevinMiller]

Isaiah 43:9-10
8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

 

[veteran]

No one knows where the Zech.14 Azal is. It's because it has NOT... manifested yet. Brown-Drivers-Briggs defines the meaning of Azal as 'proximity; he has reserved'. It will only manifest with Christ's second coming.

Likewise, no one knows exactly where God's Garden of Eden once was upon this earth, yet Gen.2 with God's River flowing out of the Garden to feed four other rivers, with two of them we know where they are located (Euphrates and Tigris), that does give us a hint about Eden's original location on earth. But it is not there in the middle east anymore, not yet. That is how Azal is to be understood.

 

[daq]

No one knows where the Zech.14 Azal is. It's because it has NOT... manifested yet. Brown-Drivers-Briggs defines the meaning of Azal as 'proximity; he has reserved'. It will only manifest with Christ's second coming.

Likewise, no one knows exactly where God's Garden of Eden once was upon this earth, yet Gen.2 with God's River flowing out of the Garden to feed four other rivers, with two of them we know where they are located (Euphrates and Tigris), that does give us a hint about Eden's original location on earth. But it is not there in the middle east anymore, not yet. That is how Azal is to be understood.

You speak only for yourself in both statements ~

Olivet-Zeytiym ~ Olivet II ~ Menorah Gan Eden :)

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of the Father! How unsearchable are his decisions and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Father? or who hath been his counseller? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. But we that are immersed into the death of Messiah are putting on the mind of Messiah Yeshua who is the Head of the body of the great congregation. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Master Yeshua Christou, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; so that Messiah may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the holy ones what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Messiah, which surpasses knowledge, that you might come to be filled with all the fulness of God the Father!"

 

[dragonfly]

Thanks, daq.


Recommended reading

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, dragonfly.

Thanks, daq.


Recommended reading

And yet, for all the work that obviously went into this article, Ezel or 'Aazel in transliterated Hebrew (from 1 Samu'el 20:19) is still not the same word as 'Aatsal in Zechariah 14:5. The former is spelled alef-zayin-lamed while the latter is spelled alef-tsadday-lamed. It's a different Hebrew word altogether.

 

[daq]

Thanks, daq.

Recommended reading

:thumbs up!: :)

Shalom, dragonfly.


And yet, for all the work that obviously went into this article, Ezel or 'Aazel in transliterated Hebrew (from 1 Samu'el 20:19) is still not the same word as 'Aatsal in Zechariah 14:5. The former is spelled alef-zayin-lamed while the latter is spelled alef-tsadday-lamed. It's a different Hebrew word altogether.

The two are connected by the context and both are connected to Beit ha-Ezel, "the House of the Side", (Micah 1:11) or Bethezel.

Zechariah 14:5 KJV
5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: [HSN#682 'Atsel] yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Original Strong's Ref. #682
Romanized 'Atsel
Pronounced aw-tsale'
from HSN0680; noble; Atsel, the name of an Israelite, and of a place in Palestine:
KJV--Azal, Azel.

Original Strong's Ref. #680
Romanized 'atsal
Pronounced aw-tsal'
a primitive root; properly, to join; used only as a denominative from HSN0681; to separate; hence, to select, refuse, contract:
KJV--keep, reserve, straiten, take.

Original Strong's Ref. #681
Romanized 'etsel
Pronounced ay'-tsel
from HSN0680 (in the sense of joining); a side; (as a preposition) near:
KJV--at, (hard) by, (from) (beside), near (unto), toward, with. See also HSN1018.

Original Strong's Ref. #1018
Romanized Beyth ha-'etsel
Pronounced bayth haw-ay'-tsel
from HSN1004 and HSN0681 with the article interposed; house of the side; Beth-ha-Etsel, a place in Palestine:
KJV--Beth-ezel.

1 Samuel 20:19 KJV
19. And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by [HSN#681 'etsel] the stone Ezel [HSN#237 'ezel].

The prophet links the words within the same sentence but most English renderings leave somewhat to be desired:

1 Samuel 20:19 TUA
19. Wshilashta tered m'od.Uwba'ta 'el- hamaqowm 'sher- nictarta sham byowm hama`sehwyashabta 'etsel [HSN#681] ha'eben ha-'Azel [HSN#237 'ezel].

David was hidden "IN THE SIDE" of the Ezel Stone, (representing Messiah) just as Moses was hidden in the cleft of the Rock.

Original Strong's Ref. #237
Romanized 'ezel
Pronounced eh'-zel
from HSN0235; departure; Ezel, a memorial stone in Palestine:
KJV--Ezel.

In addition HSN#237 'ezel comes from HSN#235 'azal which is half of the compound word `Aza'zel from Leviticus 16.

Original Strong's Ref. #235
Romanized 'azal
Pronounced aw-zal'
a primitive root; to go away, hence, to disappear:
KJV--fail, gad about, go to and fro [but in Eze.27v19 the word is rendered by many "from Uzal," by others "yarn"], be gone (spent).

Original Strong's Ref. #5799
Romanized `aza'zel
Pronounced az-aw-zale'
from HSN5795 and HSN0235; goat of departure; the scapegoat:
KJV--scapegoat.

This is not suggesting Yeshua is "the goat to-for `Aza'zel" but rather that the Stone of Ezel is the place where the difference is revealed between Messiah and the one who was released, ("Bar-abbas" which in Aramaic means "son of [the] father"). Likewise the surface meaning agrees in that it simply speaks of the same place where David departed-ezel so as to escape Saul and then again, when David was king and those with him fled from Absalom, and they departed-ezel from the same location, and then went on toward "the way of the wilderness" after David had gone up to the rosh-head-top of the ascent of Olivet Moriah to worship the Father and pray. The only place "Beit ha-Ezel" is found is the Micah passage:

Micah 1:10-15 KJV
10. Declare ye it not at Gath, weep ye not at all: in the house of Aphrah roll thyself in the dust.
11. Pass ye away, thou inhabitant of Saphir, having thy shame naked: the inhabitant of Zaanan came not forth in the mourning of Bethezel; [HSN#1018 Beth-ha-'Etsel] he shall receive of you his standing.
12. For the inhabitant of Maroth waited carefully for good: but evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem.
13. O thou inhabitant of Lachish, bind the chariot to the swift beast: she is the beginning of the sin to the daughter of Zion: for the transgressions of Israel were found in thee.
14. Therefore shalt thou give presents to Moreshethgath: the houses of Achzib shall be a lie to the kings of Israel.
15. Yet will I bring an heir unto thee, O inhabitant of Mareshah: he shall come unto Adullam the glory of Israel.

And WHO is the HEIR? And WHERE is the "HOUSE OF THE SIDE"?

John 19:34-35 KJV
34. But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

And the water and the blood Testify . . . :)

 

[dragonfly]

Hi daq,

Thank you for adding so much more to my understanding. I had already linked 'Azal' with the scapegoat, only to be told by a Hebrew speaker that the zeds were different. From a spiritual point of view, that really doesn't make any sense, even though I didn't have all the Biblical evidence you have brought to the discussion, because I knew 'Azal' was something about escaping.

Now, knowing a tiny bit more about how Hebrew works, with so many words which can apparently mean the opposite depending on context, I would add that there is very little difference between a place of departure and a place of arrival, except the direction in which one is traveling. Thus, 'departure' can be contrasted with 'to join' without any difficulty at all.

but rather that the Stone of Ezel is the place where the difference is revealed between Messiah and the one who was released

To me, this is an A* comment, which absolutely justifies all the details you gave in your last post, and brings to mind the sacrifical birds, one to be slaughtered over living (RUNNING away) water, into which blood would flow, and one to be 'released'. Amen.

This also speaks of resurrection in the end, of which David's escape was also symbolic, for the sentence of death was upon him (at the time).

John 19:34-35 KJV
34. But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

Psalm 124 (all except last verse)

1 If it had not been the Lord who was on our side,
now may Israel say;

2 If it had not been the Lord who was on our side,
when men rose up against us:

3 Then they had swallowed us up quick,
when their wrath was kindled against us:

4 Then the waters had overwhelmed us,
the stream had gone over our soul:

5 Then the proud waters
had gone over our soul.

6 Blessed be the Lord,
who hath not given us as a prey to their teeth.

7 Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers:
the snare is broken, and we are escaped.

 

[daq]

Amen dragonfly but be careful with the clean birds for they are indeed souls but neither of them fits the typology of the goat for `Azazel, (opposite typology). Seven souls for three farthings; and were not two tsipporim-sparrows sold for a farthing at the temple? And for what reason? And yet the one did not fall into the earthen without the heavenly Father. The grand story is told through symbolisms, shadows, and types, and the writers and prophets do not always play by the so-called rules that the modern shepherds like to force them into.

The first man Adam has a "wound in the side" which the Most High closes up:

Genesis 2:21-22 KJV
21. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22. And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

The Ark of Noah has a "wound in the side" for the Door:

Genesis 6:13-16 KJV
13. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

Likewise the Most High shuts up Noah and his family securely in the Ark:

Genesis 7:16 KJV
16. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

The Ark of the Covenant has a "wound in the side" for Torah:

Deuteronomy 31:26 KJV
26. Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

And Deuteronomy is the "fifth rib" of Torah and the "fifth rib" likewise reveals the typology of Joab:

2 Samuel 2:23-24 KJV
23. Howbeit he refused to turn aside: wherefore Abner with the hinder end of the spear smote him under the fifth rib, that the spear came out behind him; and he fell down there, and died in the same place: and it came to pass, that as many as came to the place where Asahel fell down and died stood still.
24. Joab also and Abishai pursued after Abner: and the sun went down when they were come to the hill of Ammah, that lieth before Giah by the way of the wilderness of Gibeon.

2 Samuel 3:27-29 KJV
27. And when Abner was returned to Hebron, Joab took him aside in the gate to speak with him quietly, and smote him there under the fifth rib, that he died, for the blood of Asahel his brother.
28. And afterward when David heard it, he said, I and my kingdom are guiltless before the Lord for ever from the blood of Abner the son of Ner:
29. Let it rest on the head of Joab, and on all his father's house; and let there not fail from the house of Joab one that hath an issue, or that is a leper, or that leaneth on a staff, or that falleth on the sword, or that lacketh bread.

2 Samuel 20:9-10 KJV
9. And Joab said to Amasa, Art thou in health, my brother? And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand to kiss him.
10. But Amasa took no heed to the sword that was in Joab's hand: so he smote him therewith in the fifth rib, and shed out his bowels to the ground, and struck him not again; and he died. So Joab and Abishai his brother pursued after Sheba the son of Bichri.

Joab slew the captains of the hosts of Israel and Judah with a blade to the fifth rib:

1 Kings 2:1-6 KJV
1. Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying,
2. I go the way of all the earth: be thou strong therefore, and shew thyself a man;
3. And keep the charge of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:
4. That the Lord may continue his word which he spake concerning me, saying, If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said he) a man on the throne of Israel.
5. Moreover thou knowest also what Joab the son of Zeruiah did to me, and what he did to the two captains of the hosts of Israel, unto Abner the son of Ner, and unto Amasa the son of Jether, whom he slew, and shed the blood of war in peace, and put the blood of war upon his girdle that was about his loins, and in his shoes that were on his feet.
6. Do therefore according to thy wisdom, and let not his hoar head go down to the grave in peace.

Joab feigns loyalty to king David, as did Judas Iskariotes to Yeshua, but in reality their loyalty in the end was merely a cover so long as it included the advancement of themselves. Also, (like Judas) Joab betrayed Amasa with a kiss as he struck the blade into his fifth rib and slew him. Likewise Joab travels with king David to Mahanaim when David flees from Absalom, (2 Samuel 17:24-27) and there David sets Joab over a third of the people, (2 Samuel 18:1-2). When Solomon follows through with the final request of his father we read that Joab is "buried in his own house in the wilderness". In other words the "house of Joab" is a burial pit in the wilderness. But first we find Joab having fled to the Tabernacle and having "tied up" himself, taking hold of the horns of the altar, and begging for mercy; yet no mercy is shown to him for the innocent blood which he had shed. All of the sins remain upon his head and spiritual seed, (he is an anti-type "adversary" to David which is why he is a closest confidant and a chieftain).

1 Kings 2:29-34 KJV
29. And it was told king Solomon that Joab was fled unto the tabernacle of the Lord; and, behold, he is by the altar. Then Solomon sent Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, saying, Go, fall upon him.
30. And Benaiah came to the tabernacle of the Lord, and said unto him, Thus saith the king, Come forth. And he said, Nay; but I will die here. And Benaiah brought the king word again, saying, Thus said Joab, and thus he answered me.
31. And the king said unto him, Do as he hath said, and fall upon him, and bury him; that thou mayest take away the innocent blood, which Joab shed, from me, and from the house of my father.
32. And the Lord shall return his blood upon his own head, who fell upon two men more righteous and better than he, and slew them with the sword, my father David not knowing thereof, to wit, Abner the son of Ner, captain of the host of Israel, and Amasa the son of Jether, captain of the host of Judah.
33. Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever: but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever from the Lord.
34. So Benaiah the son of Jehoiada went up, and fell upon him, and slew him: and he was buried in his own house in the wilderness.

Judas essentially does the same thing to Messiah when he betrays him with a kiss. Judas is called "son of perdition" and likewise the adversary entered him according to the Scripture, (it seems in what is written of the story of king David that Joab is "the adversary" and Absalom is "the son of perdition"). When the centurion thrusts the spear into the side of Messiah, on the Cross of Golgotha, it is therefore no doubt to the fifth rib, (and again the fifth rib is the fifth book, Deuteronomy, with both the blessings and the curses written in it). The typology of the "wound in the side" of Adam, the "wound in the side" of the Ark of Noah which was made for the Door, (which Door is Messiah) and the "wound in the side" of the Ark of the Covenant which received the Torah, like the "window of heaven" revealing the Word of the Father; all of this is fulfilled when the wound in the side of Messiah is received at the fifth rib and into the heart whereof the water and the blood poured out. This wound in the side of Messiah is Beth ha-Etsel, the House of the Side, and is the only Door into the kingdom of God.

Exodus 33:20-22 KJV
20. And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21. And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22. And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a Clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

:)

 

[dragonfly]

Amen dragonfly but be careful with the clean birds for they are indeed souls but neither of them fits the typology of the goat for `Azazel, (opposite typology). Seven souls for three farthings; and were not two tsipporim-sparrows sold for a farthing at the temple? And for what reason? And yet the one did not fall into the earthen without the heavenly Father.

Okay. I will keep this in mind, as I read and study.

The grand story is told through symbolisms, shadows, and types, and the writers and prophets do not always play by the so-called rules that the modern shepherds like to force them into.

That's one of the most endearing things about the prophets. :)

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, daq.

:thumbs up!: :)



The two are connected by the context and both are connected to Beit ha-Ezel, "the House of the Side", (Micah 1:11) or Bethezel.

Zechariah 14:5 KJV
5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: [HSN#682 'Atsel] yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Original Strong's Ref. #682
Romanized 'Atsel
Pronounced aw-tsale'
from HSN0680; noble; Atsel, the name of an Israelite, and of a place in Palestine:
KJV--Azal, Azel.

Original Strong's Ref. #680
Romanized 'atsal
Pronounced aw-tsal'
a primitive root; properly, to join; used only as a denominative from HSN0681; to separate; hence, to select, refuse, contract:
KJV--keep, reserve, straiten, take.

Original Strong's Ref. #681
Romanized 'etsel
Pronounced ay'-tsel
from HSN0680 (in the sense of joining); a side; (as a preposition) near:
KJV--at, (hard) by, (from) (beside), near (unto), toward, with. See also HSN1018.

Original Strong's Ref. #1018
Romanized Beyth ha-'etsel
Pronounced bayth haw-ay'-tsel
from HSN1004 and HSN0681 with the article interposed; house of the side; Beth-ha-Etsel, a place in Palestine:
KJV--Beth-ezel.

1 Samuel 20:19 KJV
19. And when thou hast stayed three days, then thou shalt go down quickly, and come to the place where thou didst hide thyself when the business was in hand, and shalt remain by [HSN#681 'etsel] the stone Ezel [HSN#237 'ezel].

The prophet links the words within the same sentence but most English renderings leave somewhat to be desired:

1 Samuel 20:19 TUA
19. Wshilashta tered m'od.Uwba'ta 'el- hamaqowm 'sher- nictarta sham byowm hama`sehwyashabta 'etsel [HSN#681] ha'eben ha-'Azel [HSN#237 'ezel].

David was hidden "IN THE SIDE" of the Ezel Stone, (representing Messiah) just as Moses was hidden in the cleft of the Rock.

Original Strong's Ref. #237
Romanized 'ezel
Pronounced eh'-zel
from HSN0235; departure; Ezel, a memorial stone in Palestine:
KJV--Ezel.

In addition HSN#237 'ezel comes from HSN#235 'azal which is half of the compound word `Aza'zel from Leviticus 16.

Original Strong's Ref. #235
Romanized 'azal
Pronounced aw-zal'
a primitive root; to go away, hence, to disappear:
KJV--fail, gad about, go to and fro [but in Eze.27v19 the word is rendered by many "from Uzal," by others "yarn"], be gone (spent).

Original Strong's Ref. #5799
Romanized `aza'zel
Pronounced az-aw-zale'
from HSN5795 and HSN0235; goat of departure; the scapegoat:
KJV--scapegoat.

This is not suggesting Yeshua is "the goat to-for `Aza'zel" but rather that the Stone of Ezel is the place where the difference is revealed between Messiah and the one who was released, ("Bar-abbas" which in Aramaic means "son of [the] father"). Likewise the surface meaning agrees in that it simply speaks of the same place where David departed-ezel so as to escape Saul and then again, when David was king and those with him fled from Absalom, and they departed-ezel from the same location, and then went on toward "the way of the wilderness" after David had gone up to the rosh-head-top of the ascent of Olivet Moriah to worship the Father and pray. The only place "Beit ha-Ezel" is found is the Micah passage:

Micah 1:10-15 KJV
10. Declare ye it not at Gath, weep ye not at all: in the house of Aphrah roll thyself in the dust.
11. Pass ye away, thou inhabitant of Saphir, having thy shame naked: the inhabitant of Zaanan came not forth in the mourning of Bethezel; [HSN#1018 Beth-ha-'Etsel] he shall receive of you his standing.
12. For the inhabitant of Maroth waited carefully for good: but evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem.
13. O thou inhabitant of Lachish, bind the chariot to the swift beast: she is the beginning of the sin to the daughter of Zion: for the transgressions of Israel were found in thee.
14. Therefore shalt thou give presents to Moreshethgath: the houses of Achzib shall be a lie to the kings of Israel.
15. Yet will I bring an heir unto thee, O inhabitant of Mareshah: he shall come unto Adullam the glory of Israel.

And WHO is the HEIR? And WHERE is the "HOUSE OF THE SIDE"?

John 19:34-35 KJV
34. But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

And the water and the blood Testify . . . :)

You're straining at that gnat, bro'! The two words are not the same; they're not even from the same root words! Be careful gulping down that camel!

 

[dragonfly]

This is a call to repentance from one of Charles Wesley's hymns. Any who have repented deeply, will (I think) recognise his choice of picture.


Come, O my guilty brethren, come,
Groaning beneath your load of sin!
His bleeding heart shall make you room,
His open side shall take you in.
He calls you now, invites you home:
Come, O my guilty brethren, come!

For you the purple current flowed
In pardons from His wounded side;
Laguished for you the eternal God,
For the the Prince of Glory died.
Believe, and all your guilt's forgiven,
Only believe, and yours is heaven.

 

[daq]

Shalom, daq.


You're straining at that gnat, bro'! The two words are not the same; they're not even from the same root words! Be careful gulping down that camel!

You do the same with the idioms as you do with the parables, sayings of Yeshua, and likewise the seven letters to the seven churches: which is to take the "good" for yourself and apply the bad to someone else as you already did when you recently stated in a different thread that the first portion of one of the seven letters quoted was not written to you while the latter half, the good part, was indeed for yourself and for modern believers to glean from. A gnat is something so small it is barely visible yet the camel is a large physical beast and represents the great fleshly and tangible-physical doctrines of men, (the Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes in the case of the Gospel accounts and time of Messiah). It is you who appear to be doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. You are straining at the spelling of one little word even after it was shown to you where the prophet Samuel ties the same together with the Stone of Ezel in the very same sentence. In addition the rules you apply were added to the Masoretic with vowel points added six hundred to a thousand years after Messiah had come and the New Covenant writings were written. Meanwhile the evidence against the eyes of the flesh mindset keep piling up against your position. The natural man does such things so that he or she may continue to believe the doctrinal positions of men which are like Pharaoh king of Egypt; "great of flesh", yet I know from my own personal experience that the natural man can neither see what he is doing nor save himself from himself and his own physical mindset, (the Deliverer shall come out of Zion and then shall we see who overcomes in his or her time appointed of the Father). :)

This is a call to repentance from one of Charles Wesley's hymns. Any who have repented deeply, will (I think) recognise his choice of picture.


Come, O my guilty brethren, come,
Groaning beneath your load of sin!
His bleeding heart shall make you room,
His open side shall take you in.
He calls you now, invites you home:
Come, O my guilty brethren, come!

For you the purple current flowed
In pardons from His wounded side;
Laguished for you the eternal God,
For the the Prince of Glory died.
Believe, and all your guilt's forgiven,
Only believe, and yours is heaven.

Amen dragonfly; and that is the "race" which we as disciples run: into Messiah which is into the House of the Side, (a great mystery). Perhaps it would be good now to combine comments made in another thread concerning this same topic which was simply titled "Chapter 14", (the short quote boxes below should link to that thread). Hope you do not mind but as you might see the relationships to what has now been said here have now hopefully become more in focus:

Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV
1. Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

"IMO, unfulfilled Bible prophecy can be summed up in these five verses. That said, what do you get from these verses?"

---

Does the Father have physical feet like a man or is it symbolic language?

Does the Father have physical feet like a man or is it symbolic language? And if it is symbolic-figurative language then perhaps the Old Testament Scripture itself already has the answers for the typology. The Father is Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and in Truth, ("in Messiah"). It is the Son who came in a body of flesh, with physical feet, which body he gave upon the Cross in our place. In the same physical body with physical feet during his ministry Yeshua already stood upon the Mount of Olives many times, (i.e. "the Olivet Discourse"). The prophet Nahum tells us more about the feet of YHWH when the prophet states that "the clouds are the dust of his feet" and Zechariah speaks of "the feet" of YHWH stationed upon the holy mount:

Zechariah 14:3-4 KJV
3. Then shall the Lord [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Nahum 1:1-4 KJV
1. The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2. God is jealous, and the Lord [YHWH] revengeth; the Lord [YHWH] revengeth, and is furious; the Lord [YHWH] will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3. The Lord [YHWH] is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord [YHWH] hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.

Luke 9:27-35 KJV
27. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28. And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33. And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

2 Peter 1:14-21 KJV
14. Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
16. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Ever heard of the "House of the Side"? ("Beyth ha-Etsel").
Perhaps that is the destination of the "race" we all must run as disciples, ("run so as to win"). :)

It is indeed the "race" we run and likewise the race which Paul speaks of in his writings. This is also why the race is circular or cyclical, (as Torah and the seasons) because we run to the House of the Side which is at the Cross of Messiah; by his wounds we are healed.

It is symbolism and is indeed connected through the root word HSN#680 'atsal.

The prophets often use places, place-names, and locales for symbolism, (even kings and their nations like Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon). The same is true of Beth ha-'Etsel which is "Bethezel" in the KJV. The place-name Bethezel is mentioned only once and therefore in only one context and that context is the coming of "ha-Yoresh" or the Heir appointed:

Micah 1:8-15 OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)
8. Therefore I will weep and wail, I will go barefoot and arom (half-naked); I will wail like the jackals, and mourn like the ostriches.
9. For her wound is incurable; for it is come unto Yehudah; it is come unto the sha'ar ami (gate of my people) even to Yerushalayim.
10. Declare ye it not at Gat, weep ye not at all; at Beit L'aphrah (House of Dust) roll thyself in the aphar (dust).
11. Pass ye on your way, thou inhabitant of Shaphir, in nakedness and shame; the inhabitants of Tza'anan dare not come out. Beit-Ha'etzel is in mourning; it withdraws from you its support.
12. For the inhabitant of Marot waited anxiously for relief; but rah (evil) came down from Hashem unto the sha'ar Yerushalayim.
13. O thou inhabitant of Lachish, harness the merkavah to the swift horses; it was the reshit chattat (beginning of sin) to Bat Tziyon; for the transgressions of Yisroel were found in thee.
14. Therefore shalt thou give shilluchim (parting gifts) to Moreshet-Gat; the batim (houses) of Achziv shall be a deception to the melachim of Yisroel.
15. Yet will I bring HaYoresh (The Heir, the one who takes possession) unto thee, O inhabitant of Mareshah; the kavod Yisroel shall come unto Adullam.
http://ojb.scripturetext.com/micah/1.htm

Luke 23:26-31 KJV
26. And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
27. And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
28. But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
31. For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

How then does "Beth ha-Etsel" or "the House of the Side" pertain to Messiah?

John 19:34-35 KJV
34. But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35. And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

And the blood and the water testify, and this pertains to the "race" which we run as disciples for to enter into "the House of the Side". Yeshua took the curses of Torah upon himself in our place. The same curses are primarily written in the "fifth rib" (which is Deuteronomy; the fifth book of the Lamb of God). However, there are seven ribs to the man, (and two "false ribs" below on a side) but the seventh rib has "three friends" not unlike Job, (thus the ribs are in appearance more like six ribs on a side with the seventh lower rib having "four wings" to the side).

Yeshua cuts the great WEEK of Sukkot-Tabernacles in half:

John 7:6-14 KJV (Sukkot-Tabernacles - John 7:2)
6. Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
7. The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
8. Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
9. When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10. But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
11. Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
12. And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.
13. Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
14. Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

Thus the week has already been cut short or "abridged" or there should be no flesh saved. This is because the PHYSICAL penalty of PHYSICAL death Yeshua took upon himself, in our place, and for our sakes. When Yeshua begins to disciple the believer it is therefore likened to the midst of the Feast which means also that we each begin at his feet in our own separate appointed times but the typology of that date is the midst of Sukkot, (yet it may now be anytime because he is no more bound under the physical constraints of the physical time domain in which the natural man walks). Thus we begin the running of "the race" or walk with Messiah and that race is placed by Paul, for good reason, in the Greek mindset of an arena or stadium, (1 Corinthians 9:24 "stadion") because, like Torah, it is cyclical.

When Yeshua gives the Great Invocation at the last Great Day of the feast of Sukkot he calls every man, woman, and child unto himself and into the kingdom of heaven:

John 7:37-38 KJV
37. In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

When a person enters into the Yeshua faith he or she begins to "run the race" and it is circular in its running, like in a stadium or arena. The "finish line" is, in typology, the beginning of the week of Sukkot-Tabernacles, 15 Tishri, because Yeshua already fulfilled the last half of the week in John 7 quoted above. The disciple of Messiah then runs the race toward the finish line "typology date" of 15 Tishri, (everything pertaining to the typology of that date will come to pass in that time). And from that appointment what remains are three days and the hemisu to the midst of the week. Yet the 15 Tishri appointment can come any time because Yeshua is now outside of our time domain constraints; no man knows the day or the hour of this appointment before its time. So the Master invites every man, woman, and child to enter into the kingdom in the last Great Day of the feast of Sukkot-Tabernacles and whenever a person hears that call and responds to the true Gospel message in repentance then the same has entered into the race. When he or she begins to come full circle, approaching the finish line, there are signs we have been given to watch for, (like birth pangs).

The stone tablets of the Ten Words-Decalogue were put INSIDE the Ark.
The Sefer Torah was placed "IN THE SIDE" of the Ark ~

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV
24. And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25. That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26. Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Peace-Shalom in Yeshua! :)

 

[ENOCH2010]

daq since we are in a thread titled Christ will come again. Will you now answer my question of, do you believe that Jesus the Christ will return to this Earth in bodily form? Or do you interpret all the scriptures that say he will symbolically the way you do all other scripture.

 

[daq]

daq since we are in a thread titled Christ will come again. Will you now answer my question of, do you believe that Jesus the Christ will return to this Earth in bodily form? Or do you interpret all the scriptures that say he will symbolically the way you do all other scripture.

I offer again the same response you already received the second time you asked the same question:

daq I ask again do you believe Jesus the Christ is coming back to Earth with his resurrected body to rule and reign as King of Kings for ever.

If you want an adequate answer perhaps you will need to start another thread, (so as not to derail this one). Perhaps you, (and any others who see things according to your perspective) should open a new thread and lay out all of your Scripture passages which support your case. Likewise please include all of your definitions of the terms which you employ in your statements. For instance what exactly do you mean by "resurrected body" when you speak of Messiah returning? Do you mean resurrected immortal flesh? Likewise there are many other terms and definitions which need to be well defined before one can adequately respond to your question. However, in the case of this thread, (which appears to be focused on the Epistle to the Hebrews) my response is thus:

Hebrews 9:24-28 KJV
24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Otherwise you could simply heed Torah and the interpretations of it through the statements and commandments of Yeshua; then you would not even need to ask me the question that you have posed here, "For Messiah our Passover is sacrificed for us." :)

Are you fearful of starting your own thread concerning that for which you keep interrogating me?
Surely one so knowledgeable as Retrobyter would be willing to help you with such a thread if you were serious. ;)

And now I have a question for you:
If indeed Yeshua returns in "bodily form" will you keep his commandment to eat his flesh and drink his blood?
For Messiah our Passover and the Lamb of God is sacrificed for us, (1 Corinthians 5:7). :)

 

[dragonfly]

Hi daq,

Again, thank you for all that you've shared. I have questions about why you say the race is in the first half of the week, since I am under the impression it won't end until the last (very long) trumpet sounds. Also, much as I love the OJB, I wish it had a hover over glossary to read along with it. I have no yet gone over to the Chapter 14 thread, because I ought to hit the sack now. Tomorrow is another day. The Lord bless you. :)



Hi Retrobyter,

Being British, I have a deep affinity with spelling, and how it has changed over the centuries of the English language. May I suggest that there is probably a good reason the zeds in Azal and Azazel are different, and it doesn't stop God speaking through the fact of the similarity in the sounds - as daq has explained. You do realise he is drawing together a single theme which runs through the occurrences of the related meanings, only? Adding nothing.

There is more, too, (as I see it) which goes back to the baptism of John, which had never been applied to ordinary Israelites before. By it, God indicated to them their distance from Him. They were, spiritually, as 'afar off' as Gentiles, even though they had outward circumcision on their side.

In that sense, Israel, first, was 'brought nigh(er)' by repentance with respect to the One who would come after John; who would make THE way to come right into the presence of God. Repentance remains a critical issue for every would-be Christian, not just Gentile Christians. The 'Afar station' which Abraham saw, even before Jacob had been born, also has the meaning that Jacob was as 'afar' off as Abraham was, being yet in his loins.

Thus, for both the Israelite and the non-Israelite, the key moment of identity with Messiah is not in His genealogy, but in becoming one with Him in His death through operation of His Holy Spirit. Paul leads with this very point in Romans 9:4 '... unto whom pertain THE ADOPTION ...' He does not say anything about tribal affiliations as a bye into eternal life. He mentions his own by way of example of having a natural right, Messiah's by way of establishing His rights, and 'our twelve', Acts 26:7 by way of explanation to a foreign king, of the past and expected fulfilment of prophecies. Paul's own natural right lasted about a split second on the Damascus road when he saw Messiah for Himself, and still he was blind for three days. After he'd received his sight in more ways than one, he counted himself 'a prisoner of the Lord', which is a great way to express his loss of natural 'rights'.

 

[daq]

Isaiah 43:9-10
8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

By the way, welcome to the forum KevinMiller! :)

Hi daq,

Again, thank you for all that you've shared. I have questions about why you say the race is in the first half of the week, since I am under the impression it won't end until the last (very long) trumpet sounds. Also, much as I love the OJB, I wish it had a hover over glossary to read along with it. I have no yet gone over to the Chapter 14 thread, because I ought to hit the sack now. Tomorrow is another day. The Lord bless you. :)



Hi Retrobyter,

Being British, I have a deep affinity with spelling, and how it has changed over the centuries of the English language. May I suggest that there is probably a good reason the zeds in Azal and Azazel are different, and it doesn't stop God speaking through the fact of the similarity in the sounds - as daq has explained. You do realise he is drawing together a single theme which runs through the occurrences of the related meanings, only? Adding nothing.

There is more, too, (as I see it) which goes back to the baptism of John, which had never been applied to ordinary Israelites before. By it, God indicated to them their distance from Him. They were, spiritually, as 'afar off' as Gentiles, even though they had outward circumcision on their side.

In that sense, Israel, first, was 'brought nigh(er)' by repentance with respect to the One who would come after John; who would make THE way to come right into the presence of God. Repentance remains a critical issue for every would-be Christian, not just Gentile Christians. The 'Afar station' which Abraham saw, even before Jacob had been born, also has the meaning that Jacob was as 'afar' off as Abraham was, being yet in his loins.

Thus, for both the Israelite and the non-Israelite, the key moment of identity with Messiah is not in His genealogy, but in becoming one with Him in His death through operation of His Holy Spirit. Paul leads with this very point in Romans 9:4 '... unto whom pertain THE ADOPTION ...' He does not say anything about tribal affiliations as a bye into eternal life. He mentions his own by way of example of having a natural right, Messiah's by way of establishing His rights, and 'our twelve', Acts 26:7 by way of explanation to a foreign king, of the past and expected fulfilment of prophecies. Paul's own natural right lasted about a split second on the Damascus road when he saw Messiah for Himself, and still he was blind for three days. After he'd received his sight in more ways than one, he counted himself 'a prisoner of the Lord', which is a great way to express his loss of natural 'rights'.

Yeshua already completed the last half of the week in John 7 because he waited until the MIDST of Sukkot before he began his public "temple" ministry. Therefore he not only cut the WEEK in half, (Daniel 9:27) but he likewise cut in half the "acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:18-21) which is "the Lord's Day" (Revelation 1:10) wherein Yochanan the Immerser received the Revelation of Yeshua, (Re: Revelation was written during Nero's reign before 70AD ~ Post#5-48) given to Yeshua while Yochanan locked up in the prison of Herod, (symbolically called "Patmos"-"My Killing"). From the Sukkot-Tabernacles of John 7:14 until the crucifixion were accomplished exactly 180 days "Wherein he shewed the riches of his glorious kingdom and the honour of his excellent majesty many days, even an hundred and fourscore days" (Esther 1:4). What is left at the End of the race is therefore three days and the hemisu which are the first three and an half days of the first half of Sukkot-Tabernacles because Yeshua commenced the circuit half way through the week.

In regards to your comments to Retrobyter I will add that one of the most difficult things for one who is of the natural seed and birth to do is to give up what he or she already has according to the flesh. Yet this is exactly what Paul did because he clearly explains that he was of the tribe of Benjamin but elsewhere states that he is likewise a Jew. Paul realized that physical promises of a physical land are nothing compared to supernal promises and eternal life in Messiah who is in the Father. This is why the resurrection of Yeshua is so important to everything in the Gospel; for if it did not happen then we might as well all fight for some land, enjoy the spoils of victory, and eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we all die. Modern theology tends to lump all the tribes of Israel into "the Jews" which is a mistake, (and cannot be proven by the Scripture) even though the northern tribes were assimilated into the nations in 332BC when Alexander commenced pummeling the empire of Elam-Persia, (prophesied in Jeremiah 49:36-39). Alexander was used of the Father to scatter Elam along with the northern tribes of Israel to the four winds of heaven, (so that the Father could draw them back out by and through Yeshua in Spirit). Paul was willing to give up his tribal lineage of the fleshly seed line of the tribe of Benjamin to be fully Jewish in Messiah the Lion of Judah. :)

 

[veteran]

Moreover concerning the Azal of Zech.14...

Because many of the Jews are planning some sort of literal escape from Jerusalem for the future tribulation, they often misinterpret the Azal of Zech.14 to be about something else disconnected with Christ's second coming there completely. Be forewarned.

LOOK at the ORDER of the events God gave in Zech.14, and note the subject context where Azal is declared there...

Zech 14:3-8
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.

The great "valley" subject there ONLY occurs when Christ's feet set down upon the Mount of Olives where the angels in Acts 1 revealed His return as how He ascended from the Mount of Olives. It is His touching down that CREATES that great valley region.

The Biblical proof of that... being the proper interpretation of that event, we were given other Bible witnesses about that cleaving of mountains within the OT prophets on the day of Christ's return. The following is one of them...

Micah 1:3-4
3 For, behold, the LORD cometh forth out of His place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.
4 And the mountains shall be molten under Him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.
(KJV)


The Zech.14 Scripture then continues with direct event associations to Christ's Milennium reign of Rev.20...

Zech.14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(KJV)

 

[daq]

Moreover concerning the Azal of Zech.14...

Because many of the Jews are planning some sort of literal escape from Jerusalem for the future tribulation, they often misinterpret the Azal of Zech.14 to be about something else disconnected with Christ's second coming there completely. Be forewarned.

The Zech.14 Scripture then continues with direct event associations to Christ's Milennium reign of Rev.20...

Zech.14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

You too: "Be forewarned" as you say . . . ^_^

WHERE IS THIS STATEMENT WRITTEN: "Out of his belly shall flow rivers of Living Water." ???

John 7:37-38 KJV
37. In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Who should you "hear" dragonfly? Hear the one who can tell you where the above is written.
If he cannot tell you this then the same knows not whereof he speaks . . . :)